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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jun 28, 2021 17:22:51 GMT -5
I think you're giving this promo too much credit. It didn't say anything people online weren't already saying for years, and it put everything into a context that never disrespected Cena's work itself. It tread through those waters carefully and gave people who weren't going to cheer for Cena a main event face to get behind and who was the contrast to Cena that they needed. Rather than give ammunition to his hatedom, it gave them someone who they could see succeed so that it wasn't Cena or bust, amid a bunch of other-show main event experiments that failed, and an overreliance on face Edge, who just was not it. But if Punk didn't say everything that people already felt, it wouldn't have landed at all. In that case, I’m fine with it not landing. Keep in mind, you’re talking to someone who had to deal with a lot of “Cena’s a disgrace to wrestling, he’s the worst ever, killing the business, he’s kiddie and lame, how can you be in your twenties and like him, blah blah” during that program. That still stings with me. Him and Punk had amazing wrestling matches, and their promos just on a chemistry level were great, I just wish WWE hadn’t fed into that sentiment. But I also wish they never sold “Cena Sucks” shirts, either, so what can you do? That's all fair, but I don't mean "it needed this element to succeed" in some way where it could have done without. I mean "it succeeded because it spoke to something already there".
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2021 17:43:55 GMT -5
I think this was probably the last time I was truly excited for the WWE product.
Looking back on it, I think it's less the promo itself, but what the promo represented. After so many years of sanitized and pretty homogeneous promos and angles, we were getting something that felt real again. Not "real" in a shoot kind of way, although it was tip-toeing that line pretty hard, but real in the sense that it felt like something that truly mattered to the performer. CM Punk went out without a script, and while I'm sure he had to clear most of his talking points with the office, he delivered a promo that did something so few do these days: It made me care about him and the match. Championships come and go, but this was a man who was pissed off at the situation he was in, and was fighting for his dignity and his pride and he was willing to gamble his career and his reputation on truly being "The Best in the World".
It felt, no pun intended, very raw.
The follow-up is a whole 'nother can of worms, but this promo? This promo is the beauty of pro-wrestling storytelling in a nutshell, to me.
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Ozman
Samurai Cop
Chi-Town!!!
Posts: 2,374
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Post by Ozman on Jun 28, 2021 17:59:20 GMT -5
The guy that everyone forgets about in that segment is R-Truth. He was Cena’s opponent in the match right before the pipe bomb promo. That was during R-Truth’s short lived heel turn, which was also ten years ago.
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Blade
Don Corleone
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Post by Blade on Jun 28, 2021 18:56:36 GMT -5
The only thing I actively dislike about that promo (if we're at least giving them the credit that AJ was intended to be booed for running down the roster and trashing their new show) was the "I didn't get here because I sucked... up to the right people" line. Hearing a popular woman say that, emboldened the pricks who think "ring rats" are or were ever actually a thing, and we got the dirt worst example of it a while later when the Post-Mania crowd thought chanting "You suck Cena, You suck Bryan" at the Bellas was the peak of comedy. Way to bring women's wrestling upwards, April. In kayfabe: AJ was a paranoid, delusional heel who would obviously see her rivals as less worthy than her. Out of kayfabe: Well, first off, I don't blame AJ for the crowd being shitty, that's entirely on them. But aside from that, while I agree that particular line could've been avoided, like, what brought AJ to the table and prominence was pretty fundamentally different than what brought the Bellas to the table (and got them rehired and repushed). Like, don't get me wrong, I don't blame the Bellas at all for taking a job, or for who they had relationships with, and I give them all credit in the world for later trying to improve as wrestlers. But at that point in 2013, they were emblematic of a completely different vision of women's wrestling in WWE than AJ wanted and was pushing for, and when you put that in the context of AJ's own documented experiences and that they were getting showcased for being in a reality show, her anger becomes pretty understandable. (With that being said, I think Brie's counterpoint of "I have to do all the wrestling stuff AND all the work for being in a TV show, we're working twice as hard as anyone else and our show is also successful" was both a very understandable reaction and would've made a good face counterargument if WWE could have been trusted to let the feud go on without turning it awful.)
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jun 29, 2021 0:05:54 GMT -5
The guy that everyone forgets about in that segment is R-Truth. He was Cena’s opponent in the match right before the pipe bomb promo. That was during R-Truth’s short lived heel turn, which was also ten years ago. Which reminds me that Truth first debuted 21 years ago, and his current run is 13 years and counting. Where does the time go?
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Post by fortknox on Jun 29, 2021 10:45:03 GMT -5
Here's a good review of things.
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paywindah
Dennis Stamp
He's goin' to da paywindah here on da muddaship TBS.
Posts: 3,678
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Post by paywindah on Jun 29, 2021 12:32:20 GMT -5
I remember it led to quite a few WWE articles in major sports and entertainment media outlets. WWE was cool again and they botched it quickly.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jun 29, 2021 16:21:30 GMT -5
The only thing I actively dislike about that promo (if we're at least giving them the credit that AJ was intended to be booed for running down the roster and trashing their new show) was the "I didn't get here because I sucked... up to the right people" line. Hearing a popular woman say that, emboldened the pricks who think "ring rats" are or were ever actually a thing, and we got the dirt worst example of it a while later when the Post-Mania crowd thought chanting "You suck Cena, You suck Bryan" at the Bellas was the peak of comedy. Way to bring women's wrestling upwards, April. In kayfabe: AJ was a paranoid, delusional heel who would obviously see her rivals as less worthy than her. Out of kayfabe: Well, first off, I don't blame AJ for the crowd being shitty, that's entirely on them. But aside from that, while I agree that particular line could've been avoided, like, what brought AJ to the table and prominence was pretty fundamentally different than what brought the Bellas to the table (and got them rehired and repushed). Like, don't get me wrong, I don't blame the Bellas at all for taking a job, or for who they had relationships with, and I give them all credit in the world for later trying to improve as wrestlers. But at that point in 2013, they were emblematic of a completely different vision of women's wrestling in WWE than AJ wanted and was pushing for, and when you put that in the context of AJ's own documented experiences and that they were getting showcased for being in a reality show, her anger becomes pretty understandable. (With that being said, I think Brie's counterpoint of "I have to do all the wrestling stuff AND all the work for being in a TV show, we're working twice as hard as anyone else and our show is also successful" was both a very understandable reaction and would've made a good face counterargument if WWE could have been trusted to let the feud go on without turning it awful.) Understandable anger didn't seem to be in question in that post. Any anger she felt could have been expressed without accusing the Bellas of only having a job because they sucked the right dicks. I am making zero comment on the rest of the content of the promo, but that one line in it is pretty poisonous, and definitely doesn't help the perception that a ton of fans have of women's wrestling, or the Bellas.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
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Post by khali on Jun 29, 2021 17:36:32 GMT -5
Even more important than the promo is the MITB match. One of the most exciting modern WWE main events, a classic match with one of their best crowds ever. It all got messed up later, but the night itself will always be a special one.
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Blade
Don Corleone
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Post by Blade on Jun 29, 2021 20:26:35 GMT -5
Understandable anger didn't seem to be in question in that post. Any anger she felt could have been expressed without accusing the Bellas of only having a job because they sucked the right dicks. I am making zero comment on the rest of the content of the promo, but that one line in it is pretty poisonous, and definitely doesn't help the perception that a ton of fans have of women's wrestling, or the Bellas. I agree. I'm saying I understand, not that I approve. The point about understandable anger was that the promo at the other women was summarisable as "I bit and scratched and clawed and fought from nothing to get here, because wrestling was what I wanted more than anything, while you got your jobs because you had the Hart family connection, were the girlfriends of top wrestlers, etc." And that's understandable because it's true. (As I said, I also think Brie's counterargument was also largely true. People can disagree and both be largely right by their own lights.) But mostly my point is just that that line was unfortunate but it also isn't the only thing the promo should be judged by (it also shouldn't be ignored). I think people perhaps underestimate what a huge fricking deal it was that the reigning women's champion and by far the most featured and over woman on the roster called out WWE's priorities and hiring practices for the women's division on their own tv show. And when you look at the state of the women's division pre-AJ and post-AJ, the differences are to the point of it seeming like an entirely different company. You can't put a measuring stick as to how large a part this promo was in that sea change of how women were hired, featured and treated, but if you wrote a history of women's wrestling in the US in general or WWE in particular, the "pipebombshell" is a major event in the timeline. There is a reason CM Punk said it was the promo of the decade, notably over his own pipebomb promo.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Jun 30, 2021 1:26:28 GMT -5
I think you're giving this promo too much credit. It didn't say anything people online weren't already saying for years, and it put everything into a context that never disrespected Cena's work itself. It tread through those waters carefully and gave people who weren't going to cheer for Cena a main event face to get behind and who was the contrast to Cena that they needed. Rather than give ammunition to his hatedom, it gave them someone who they could see succeed so that it wasn't Cena or bust, amid a bunch of other-show main event experiments that failed, and an overreliance on face Edge, who just was not it. But if Punk didn't say everything that people already felt, it wouldn't have landed at all. In that case, I’m fine with it not landing. Keep in mind, you’re talking to someone who had to deal with a lot of “Cena’s a disgrace to wrestling, he’s the worst ever, killing the business, he’s kiddie and lame, how can you be in your twenties and like him, blah blah” during that program. That still stings with me. Him and Punk had amazing wrestling matches, and their promos just on a chemistry level were great, I just wish WWE hadn’t fed into that sentiment. But I also wish they never sold “Cena Sucks” shirts, either, so what can you do? I mean it was pretty blatantly obvious those lines were targeted for the fans that had grown tired of Cena. I was one of those fans so it spoke to me.
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