Can we trust WWE to let any superstar organically grow?

[RareTradU]

Thanks to the WWE ThunderDome era, WWE has been exposed as to how they can control the crowd noise during matches. Being able to pipe in chants on cue, fans counting along with the ref count, cheers, and boos has enhanced the empty arena noise in the ThunderDome but how do we trust that WWE won't keep using this technology going forward with the live crowds. We all know how Mr. McMahon will push his vision no matter which direction the fans want a certain superstar or angle to go. If this continues how will any wrestler grow into the next big superstar that WWE is seriously lacking at the moment?

[Deleted]

No.

They'll see someone getting over, especially not by their choice, and sabotage it. Or, run it to the ground and kill the mystique of that act.

[This Player Hating Mothman]

Wait I'm confused, was anyone trusting WWE to let people organically grow before the Thunderdome?

[Deleted]

Is Vince still around? then.

[Starshine]

The last time there WWE delivered both an organic and genuine push behind someone was probably around 20 years ago. There's no real incentive for WWE to go that route anymore, for a recent example, Drew McIntyre just suddenly became a babyface main eventer overnight because that's what he's going to be from then on. It's just how they book, they don't care about the stories bridging the gaps, just fast-tracking to vapid and meaningless "moments."

[Chiral]

Their will to lazily reuse the same scripts with house show style booking for TV prevents any real development.

[EoE: Well There's Your Problem]

You can never get true organic-ness in wrestling. Not as long as someone is picking who to push, who to win, how much they’re allowed to wrestle, etc. Never.

The best you can hope for is someone pushing a talent in a way that you like, and them continuing to do so when you respond positively to that. That seems to be what is deemed “organic” in wrestling. If Vince McMahon were doing that on a regular basis, then you’d be able to trust him to do so. But he isn’t, so you don’t.

The sad thing is, most of it probably isn’t even sabotage. He probably legit thought that things like Retribution or RAW Underground were gonna be these cutting-edge angles that would get people watching again. To paraphrase Homer Simpson, he’s probably using his whole ass.

[Fade is a CodyCryBaby]

Jul 12, 2021 21:49:34 GMT -5 @sigmax said:

Is Vince still around? then.

Close the thread.

[This Player Hating Mothman]

Jul 12, 2021 22:10:10 GMT -5 EoE: Well There's Your Problem said:

You can never get true organic-ness in wrestling. Not as long as someone is picking who to push, who to win, how much they’re allowed to wrestle, etc. Never.

The best you can hope for is someone pushing a talent in a way that you like, and them continuing to do so when you respond positively to that. That seems to be what is deemed “organic” in wrestling. If Vince McMahon were doing that on a regular basis, then you’d be able to trust him to do so. But he isn’t, so you don’t.

I think you're vastly oversimplifying the matter, and ignoring the pigheaded nature of WWE booking. Rusev organically grew while the company fought the idea he would get over and gaslit him in him private about that fact. Daniel Bryan was forced into a megastar position when the company didn't want him to be entirely because the audience doubled down on expressing how badly they wanted them. It led to what has been one of their most acclaimed moments in years and to this day stands as such an iconic feelgood moment the company rewrote history to pretend they weren't monstrously out of touch about it. New Day were rejected as faces initially, got over as heels, and returned in a different form as faces doing what they wanted, and became an all-time great team because of what they were able to do.

It's true there's someone deciding everything, but there is a natural give and take between booker and audience that is supposed to go on. People who get elevated up the card because they're loved by the audience, people who get big face turn moments because the crowd can't resist them and want to cheer for them, so you let that storyline take its course and follow through. There's ways a booker can deal with that. There's ways you can write a story that leads people to sympathize with someone, or even fall back from a failed and rejected push to try again better. See the redemption of Hangman Page as someone who was called "AEW's Roman" in his early days and now is probably their biggest face, because they reconsidered how they were building him and came back with something else in the long term.

Organic isn't impossible just because there's two parties involved. It just means both parties need to turn their key. WWE's problem is that when the audience turns their key, they call in a locksmith to have the locks changed, and when WWE wants to turn its key, it will tell people "You want to turn your key" like a shit cartoon hypnotist. This is true of virtually any storytelling medium to one degree or another, but it is extra important in wrestling, because of how the audience interacts like with the production. This isn't weird nitpicky arcane stuff; wrestling used to work this way, and in non-WWE places it still does. WWE has just gone in a radically different direction and engaged in this behavior more stubbornly than any promotion ever has before.

[rnrk supports BLM]

Depends whether Nick Khan slashes the catering budget.

[Perd]

Vince: “Grow? That’s what steroids are for, pal.”

[Dub H]

Jul 12, 2021 22:10:10 GMT -5 EoE: Well There's Your Problem said:

You can never get true organic-ness in wrestling. Not as long as someone is picking who to push, who to win, how much they’re allowed to wrestle, etc. Never.

The best you can hope for is someone pushing a talent in a way that you like, and them continuing to do so when you respond positively to that. That seems to be what is deemed “organic” in wrestling. If Vince McMahon were doing that on a regular basis, then you’d be able to trust him to do so. But he isn’t, so you don’t.

The sad thing is, most of it probably isn’t even sabotage. He probably legit thought that things like Retribution or RAW Underground were gonna be these cutting-edge angles that would get people watching again. To paraphrase Homer Simpson, he’s probably using his whole ass.

Honestly this is semantics,we know what they mean by organic.There will always be need of help behind the scenes of course.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Not one bit

Like if they do that's awesome and good for them but literally how many examples of failed can't-miss pushes and gimmicks do you need before you stop trusting the next guy to be "totally can't-miss"??

[thehottag]

Crowd sweetening & piped-in noises aren't anything new. They were changing reactions to Hogan on TV shows 30 years ago. I don't think it'll change much, tbh.

[Deleted]

No because of the push pattern called "the Road to Wrestlemania".

[Cyno]

The last time it happened was Kofi Kingston's chase for and eventual win of the WWE Championship. And, almost out of spite for getting over without the company planning for it, he jobbed it to Lesnar in a few seconds.

[freeze Austin]

LOL, no.

Austin was probably the one and only time where they had a guy who wasn't earmarked from day one as a future main event star to be pushed who got over to an insane level and they actually built around him instead of attempting to kill his momentum right away or making him champion but only giving him pre-main event title defenses.

[slaughterama]

Sadly, I think they're going to do as much as they can to limit how much crowd noise is picked up on the mics, and continue to pipe in the reactions and chants that they're looking for.

[polarbearpete]

Jul 13, 2021 0:41:38 GMT -5 Cyno said:

The last time it happened was Kofi Kingston's chase for and eventual win of the WWE Championship. And, almost out of spite for getting over without the company planning for it, he jobbed it to Lesnar in a few seconds.

I mean he did have a rather lengthy reign between winning it and dropping it to Lesnar. Don’t think there was any spite involved at all.

[rocket]

Let's just say their independent thought alarm gets quite the workout.