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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Jan 6, 2022 11:07:36 GMT -5
Really when it comes to both Anna and Jade I'm kind of just at the point of, "Put the people who actually know what they're doing on TV and put the ones who are still learning on Elevation." I have no real strong opinions on which is better than the other, they're both pretty bad as it is. I guess if I had to pick one to push it'd be Jade, mostly since I actually know what her finisher is, but I'd really rather push neither of them.
Also the whole concept of someone being "marketable" just feels completely meaningless to me, like just a handwave buzzword to justify pushing someone regardless of their demonstrated level of ability.
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Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
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Post by Blade on Jan 6, 2022 11:13:30 GMT -5
She's very good in the ring for her experience. Watch her matches with Shida, Hayter and Britt. And Jade doesn't have more star power. Anna sells more merch than Jade and has a bigger following. And again she's not bland in look and character, that's just you hating and not seeing the potential. Anna is way better in the ring than Cargill and better at cutting promos. The fact that you fail to acknowledge how good she was in the street fight and fail to give her any credit just proves you're a hater You really have trouble with the concept that people can watch the same show as you and have a different reaction. I've seen exactly the same Anna Jay matches as you since her return and she has yet to leave any impression on me beyond "she needs work". That's not because I'm a hater, because I had no preconceptions about Anna Jay. I don't hate her now, either. The women's division needs lower midcard faces just like it needs lower midcard heels, and her being tied to Tay and the Dark Order gives her a reason to do things. But I see nothing in her that warrants a solo push. You disagree. Okay. These things happen sometimes.
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Post by holyshida on Jan 6, 2022 11:15:44 GMT -5
She's very good in the ring for her experience. Watch her matches with Shida, Hayter and Britt. And Jade doesn't have more star power. Anna sells more merch than Jade and has a bigger following. And again she's not bland in look and character, that's just you hating and not seeing the potential. Anna is way better in the ring than Cargill and better at cutting promos. The fact that you fail to acknowledge how good she was in the street fight and fail to give her any credit just proves you're a hater You really have trouble with the concept that people can watch the same show as you and have a different reaction. I've seen exactly the same Anna Jay matches as you since her return and she has yet to leave any impression on me beyond "she needs work". That's not because I'm a hater, because I had no preconceptions about Anna Jay. I don't hate her now, either. The women's division needs lower midcard faces just like it needs lower midcard heels, and her being tied to Tay and the Dark Order gives her a reason to do things. But I see nothing in her that warrants a solo push. You disagree. Okay. These things happen sometimes. OK fine. Agree to disagree. She'll prove you and a lot of people wrong. That I have zero doubt about
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Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
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Post by Blade on Jan 6, 2022 11:16:29 GMT -5
I don’t REALLY want to start a big thing, but the main reason people keep saying Jade is good is because of her look. That’s some “Vince McMahon loves muscles” thinking to me. That said, she’s way better than Brakkus or Tom MaGee. It's not just because of her look (though her look is amazing, not just big). Matt Morgan was of a size with Sid, and also a way better wrestler than Sid. But Matt Morgan is Matt Morgan, and Sid is Sid. Size is not all that matters, wrestling ability is not all that matters. Now, people can say they don't see physical charisma and star power in Jade, and sure, okay, tastes are tastes, guess we'll see how it turns out. But it's pretty obvious Tony Khan saw more than just "big", because there's plenty of big women and they aren't signed and pushed like Jade.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Jan 6, 2022 11:18:14 GMT -5
I will ask this - did they actually show her celebrating with her kid, too? If so, that kind of feels weird because she's still a heel, but that could just be me nitpicking.
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Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
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Post by Blade on Jan 6, 2022 11:19:18 GMT -5
I will ask this - did they actually show her celebrating with her kid, too? If so, that kind of feels weird because she's still a heel, but that could just be me nitpicking. They did, yes. I agree it was a little weird, but AEW isn't particularly strict with kayfabe for heels (except for MJF).
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2022 11:19:23 GMT -5
Also the whole concept of someone being "marketable" just feels completely meaningless to me, like just a handwave buzzword to justify pushing someone regardless of their demonstrated level of ability. I'm reminded of Wade Barrett's comment on David Otunga during NXT Season 1. It was something to the effect of "You go on and on about the 'it factor' because there's no tangible reason for anyone to get behind you." Also I just realized that NXT Season 1 was 12 years ago. God help us.
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Post by Ishmeal Loves Kaseyhausen on Jan 6, 2022 11:21:21 GMT -5
Really when it comes to both Anna and Jade I'm kind of just at the point of, "Put the people who actually know what they're doing on TV and put the ones who are still learning on Elevation." I have no real strong opinions on which is better than the other, they're both pretty bad as it is. I guess if I had to pick one to push it'd be Jade, mostly since I actually know what her finisher is, but I'd really rather push neither of them. Also the whole concept of someone being "marketable" just feels completely meaningless to me, like just a handwave buzzword to justify pushing someone regardless of their demonstrated level of ability. On the Elevation point, isn't that the point of the show, and Dark, to get extra reps for their future stars, and have a few matches of current higher card people? To me, it would serve Jade a lot better to have a 5-6 minute match each week on one of the Youtube shows against an experienced vet. Same for Anna, etc.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2022 11:24:30 GMT -5
Jade is good overall because she's got a look that's unique in this company, she's got a character, she's got presence, a manager and she's been booked to be a powerhouse. She's damn near got everything you need. The only thing Jade really doesn't have are the in-ring skills. Once she gets those skills, you can't really say she has any negatives.
There are some talent in this company who have great in-ring skills but are trash everywhere else that Jade excels. In her case it's just the reverse.
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Post by Harry The Arrow was Wrong! on Jan 6, 2022 11:26:19 GMT -5
I just thought it was super deflating last night. Like if Ruby and Rosa can't get a good match out of you then you shouldn't be champion.
Like sure she has "The look" but that doesn't mean much if her matches are not good.
Just a really disappointing outcome. Especially when they have do much good talent ready for that spot.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Jan 6, 2022 11:55:54 GMT -5
I don’t REALLY want to start a big thing, but the main reason people keep saying Jade is good is because of her look. That’s some “Vince McMahon loves muscles” thinking to me. That said, she’s way better than Brakkus or Tom MaGee. It's not just because of her look (though her look is amazing, not just big). Matt Morgan was of a size with Sid, and also a way better wrestler than Sid. But Matt Morgan is Matt Morgan, and Sid is Sid. Size is not all that matters, wrestling ability is not all that matters. Now, people can say they don't see physical charisma and star power in Jade, and sure, okay, tastes are tastes, guess we'll see how it turns out. But it's pretty obvious Tony Khan saw more than just "big", because there's plenty of big women and they aren't signed and pushed like Jade. Yeah, I'm all for her proving me wrong. I want to enjoy what I'm watching. This "presence" to me, only seems to equate to "big and muscular". I wish she was a face honestly. I don't buy her whole "arrogant heel lady" cliche she's got going. I know booking a giant dominant face is harder, but I also think some of her weaknesses would be more forgiven. Maybe I'm wrong. Like I said, she bores me, but you (and many others) like her, so hopefully I do too at some point.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 6, 2022 11:59:27 GMT -5
The thing with Jade right now is that these long matches really expose her as a rookie. I think she'd be better served with shorter matches. Not necessarily squashes mind you, but sort of the reverse Hogan where the face gets a lot of offense in and then she just powers up, does her sequences, and boom, pin.
Covering up her weaknesses in her matches would do her a lot of favors.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Jan 6, 2022 12:07:14 GMT -5
The thing with Jade right now is that these long matches really expose her as a rookie. I think she'd be better served with shorter matches. Not necessarily squashes mind you, but sort of the reverse Hogan where the face gets a lot of offense in and then she just powers up, does her sequences, and boom, pin. Covering up her weaknesses in her matches would do her a lot of favors. I mean, should they just turn her babyface? I wonder if showing her kid in the crowd might be the start of something there. I get she's cocky and arrogant but her look to me *screams* babyface. She looks like a superhero. Mark Sterling's the man so I also don't want to see him lose his spot, but they could find a heel faction for him to lead.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 6, 2022 12:08:59 GMT -5
The thing with Jade right now is that these long matches really expose her as a rookie. I think she'd be better served with shorter matches. Not necessarily squashes mind you, but sort of the reverse Hogan where the face gets a lot of offense in and then she just powers up, does her sequences, and boom, pin. Covering up her weaknesses in her matches would do her a lot of favors. I mean, should they just turn her babyface? I wonder if showing her kid in the crowd might be the start of something there. I get she's cocky and arrogant but her look to me *screams* babyface. She looks like a superhero. Mark Sterling's the man so I also don't want to see him lose his spot, but they could find a heel faction for him to lead. I think she works well as a heel atm, so I dunno about turning her face yet. That said, AEW is also a bit heel heavy on the women's side, too, and Britt Baker getting into misery booking territory doesn't help matters either. I liked the victory celebration with her kid and her Storm entrance gear.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,516
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Post by markymark on Jan 6, 2022 12:12:34 GMT -5
She is going to get the title soon but more likely the Womens title if Britt loses to Riho, Jade reign will probably last around 90 days(like Codys first reign as TNT champ)
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jan 6, 2022 12:14:57 GMT -5
I do think there is something to the idea that Jade has a certain presence and star power purely from her look and attitude. Jade was the most over woman in the building last night. Her big moves got pops and there were dueling chants for her. She clearly sticks out to folks and for better or worse, they react to her. Now, she still has a long ways to go in terms of her in ring work (which is fair given her experience). But I get the push behind her.
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clifford
King Koopa
Shingo Takagi stan
Posts: 10,683
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Post by clifford on Jan 6, 2022 13:36:32 GMT -5
Wrong decision. She's not ready; she actually looks quite nervous still in the ring.
Cody's first TNT reign established the title; a fighting champion taking on any and all challengers.
You had two equally and deserving veterans in Rosa or Ruby who could've been the equivalent for getting the TBS title over in the same way.
I'm very perplexed. Unless Jade improves really quickly she's going to continue to be badly exposed. I really see this as being a bad thing for her.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,296
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Post by Fade on Jan 6, 2022 13:39:15 GMT -5
Wrong decision. She's not ready; she actually looks quite nervous still in the ring. Cody's first TNT reign established the title; a fighting champion taking on any and all challengers. You had two equally and deserving veterans in Rosa or Ruby who could've been the equivalent for getting the TBS title over in the same way. I'm very perplexed. Unless Jade improves really quickly she's going to continue to be badly exposed. I really see this as being a bad thing for her. She does. Particularly during that roll-up, I was asking myself “is that nerves or just uncoordinated movement?”. It looks like nerves which is weird considering she’s been doing it for a minute by now.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2022 15:06:31 GMT -5
I do think there is something to the idea that Jade has a certain presence and star power purely from her look and attitude. Jade was the most over woman in the building last night. Her big moves got pops and there were dueling chants for her. She clearly sticks out to folks and for better or worse, they react to her. Now, she still has a long ways to go in terms of her in ring work (which is fair given her experience). But I get the push behind her. Yep, this. Right now it's about AEW covering up her weaknesses as she improves. She can't be having those "Ruby Soho styled matches" because she doesn't work that style. She has to stay closer to the Goldberg/Lesnar/powerstyle matches. Like, she might have the Charlotte Flair height and build but Charlotte has that ringwork which is from years of working which is why she'd be able to work that style of match. Jade's gotta stick closer to the powerstyle matches until she can reach those Ruby matches. Just keep it short and sweet and she'll be fine.
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Post by smokinvokoun86 on Jan 6, 2022 15:14:33 GMT -5
I do think there is something to the idea that Jade has a certain presence and star power purely from her look and attitude. Jade was the most over woman in the building last night. Her big moves got pops and there were dueling chants for her. She clearly sticks out to folks and for better or worse, they react to her. Now, she still has a long ways to go in terms of her in ring work (which is fair given her experience). But I get the push behind her. Yep, this. Right now it's about AEW covering up her weaknesses as she improves. She can't be having those "Ruby Soho styled matches" because she doesn't work that style. She has to stay closer to the Goldberg/Lesnar/powerstyle matches. Like, she might have the Charlotte Flair height and build but Charlotte has that ringwork which is from years of working which is why she'd be able to work that style of match. Jade's gotta stick closer to the powerstyle matches. Just keep it short and sweet and she'll be fine. I agree, have her go up against Nyla or Statlander. She might be better at stiff asskicking matches than straight up wrestling matches.
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