|
Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Nov 30, 2021 2:05:11 GMT -5
Please explain why Deonna Purrazzo's single account covers every single match in Nia's career. Please provide a quote of every single person she injured saying, "Nah, Nia didn't do that", because that's the only way to justify her behavior. You are wrong here. If she is a such a reckless, unsafe worker, doesn't it seem just a wee bit odd that a peer could work with her repeatedly over a period of five years and never be injured or even banged up from doing so? Why, it's almost as if in the vast majority of her matches she didn't injure anyone, and indeed was trying not to injure anyone. Which is almost as if there's something more complicated going on than "she's reckless". So because she didn't injure everyone in every single match, that means she never injured anyone and all her jokes about it are justified?
|
|
|
Post by Final Countdown Jones on Nov 30, 2021 2:13:43 GMT -5
Please explain why Deonna Purrazzo's single account covers every single match in Nia's career. Please provide a quote of every single person she injured saying, "Nah, Nia didn't do that", because that's the only way to justify her behavior. You are wrong here. If she is a such a reckless, unsafe worker, doesn't it seem just a wee bit odd that a peer could work with her repeatedly over a period of five years and never be injured or even banged up from doing so? Why, it's almost as if in the vast majority of her matches she didn't injure anyone, and indeed was trying not to injure anyone. Which is almost as if there's something more complicated going on than "she's reckless". They worked literally three matches against each other. That doesn't even qualify as a brisk filler feud in modern WWE, I think it's greatly overselling Deonna's track record to count three enhancement matches as sizable in-ring time and some kind of definitive proof of a point. Especially when the matches she's injured people in seem to run longer, which would indicate a very different sort of risk of sloppiness than the short matches they worked together would run into. I wouldn't be surprised if there's under five minutes of total ring time between the two.
|
|
Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
|
Post by Blade on Nov 30, 2021 2:15:35 GMT -5
Okay for one I'm not saying that bolded stuff at all so don't put words in my mouth. Deonna didn't get hurt against Nia, that is her own personal experience. That's it. It's one person's supportive statement about her being safe. I can point to when Ember Moon's husband called her an 'unsafe moron'. Is either definitive? No. But it means that there isn't a cut-and-dry simplicity to one person's account. When someone who worked with someone for years says "Never have I walked away hurt or banged up or feeling like I can't work the next day. I feel the need to defend her from my point of view because I can't say anything negative about her.", and you say "Any problem child the wrestling industry has ever had will have someone making some comment that paints them in a positive light.", it's really difficult to interpret that in any way other than you saying you know better than they do. She was defending Nia from these sorts of accusations. She obviously thinks her experience with her is relevant. So do I. To me, what a wrestler's peers say about them (in terms of how they are as a worker) counts for considerably more than the conclusions drawn by the chattering classes of the internet, precisely because those peers actually have expertise in the subject and we largely do not. I do not see why an intentionally reckless and dangerous worker would not be widely disliked by the peers who have had to put their bodies in her hands. Instead, the opposite appears to be true. But here's the big thing though. Let's say everybody who got hurt in a Nia Jax match was not hurt through her sloppiness but just an earnest in-ring mistake, because I actually don't care nearly as much about legislating intent or who's whyu she got hurt. She's still making jokes about it publicly. The safety of her opponents, the people she's supposed to be taking great care of, is just there for her to crack wise about. It doesn't need to be antisocial personality disorder for it to still be kinda f***ed up. Accidents happen in wrestling, wrestlers get hurt. But most of them have the decency and professionalism to not repeatedly joke about it on the internet and frankly it's weird that this specifically is being treated like a contentious point. Which is fine, I get why you say that. Here's why I don't react the same way: as far as I know, the people in question haven't been publically upset about it and the tweets in question were usually if not always semi-kayfabe, which muddies the waters for me. Moreover, they tended to be more of the "I'm a crippler!" style than "I broke Sane's face and I'll break yours too" style (there may be exceptions, I haven't looked in every single thread where people go off about Jax). I also note many other wrestlers have leaned into actual injuries they caused for heat who don't seem to get castigated for it in every thread they are mentioned in, and this seems unfair. If everyone involved is cool with Nia leaning into it for heat, I see no problem with it. If the office encouraged her to do this for heat, I blame them more than her. If she did it and people were upset and nothing was done about it, I blame her and the office for not stepping in. Other permutations would draw other reactions, such as my speculation that perhaps she leaned into it as a defensive mechanism. The key point here is "I don't know". But I do know she was roundly harassed over it, which I have no problems identifying as definitely bad and also understand that it's an extremely stressful situation to put someone in, which can cause people to themselves overreact or react badly. So I have more empathy on this point than you do, and more to the point, see no reason to assume malice when other wrestlers don't seem to.
|
|
Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
|
Post by Blade on Nov 30, 2021 2:17:24 GMT -5
So because she didn't injure everyone in every single match, that means she never injured anyone and all her jokes about it are justified? Yes, that is definitely exactly what I said and meant and if you prop it up in a field, it will definitely keep the crows off your corn.
|
|
|
Post by Starshine on Nov 30, 2021 2:20:22 GMT -5
Please explain why Deonna Purrazzo's single account covers every single match in Nia's career. Please provide a quote of every single person she injured saying, "Nah, Nia didn't do that", because that's the only way to justify her behavior. You are wrong here. If she is a such a reckless, unsafe worker, doesn't it seem just a wee bit odd that a peer could work with her repeatedly over a period of five years and never be injured or even banged up from doing so? Why, it's almost as if in the vast majority of her matches she didn't injure anyone, and indeed was trying not to injure anyone. Which is almost as if there's something more complicated going on than "she's reckless". You do know what statistical significance is, right? Because one handpicked account taken at face value doesn't explain anything, and this also doesn't consider any potential bias from the source (i.e. friendship, personal history, professional goals, etc). Now as for actual statistical significance, has Nia Jax, when compared to someone at her professional level and with her experience, caused injury to more wrestlers by comparison to the mean? If the answer is 'yes' and the most common denominator isn't the opponent, or a factor outside of Nia's control: then the fault is in her performance, reckless, or otherwise. That's not debatable.
|
|
|
Post by Final Countdown Jones on Nov 30, 2021 2:20:24 GMT -5
So I have more empathy on this point than you do This is the largest conceivable yikes. Kayfabe doesn't mean anything because this is her in a tweet saying she's not going back to wrestling, so there is no heel work, there is no story being sold. She is being actually very up front, presenting her real name as her real name, stamping the tweet with a "this isn't wrestling, this is me" authenticity, and giving the promise that she's not going back to it. This wasn't for heat. But this is gonna be my last response to you because wow is that little snippet uh. A lot. You don't inherently have more empathy toward someone's harassment just because you're forgiving of the bad thing they're doing in response. Absolutely 0% no, that's not a claim that gets to be made, so I'm out.
|
|
|
Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Nov 30, 2021 2:22:41 GMT -5
So because she didn't injure everyone in every single match, that means she never injured anyone and all her jokes about it are justified? Yes, that is definitely exactly what I said and meant and if you prop it up in a field, it will definitely keep the crows off your corn. Your entire point rests on someone who worked a few low profile squashes saying, "Well she didn't injure me!" It doesn't answer for all the people she did injure that she continually has made jokes about, including now that her wrestling career is apparently over. Defending Nia Jax for making jokes about hurting people for real is a really weird hill to die on.
|
|
Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
|
Post by Blade on Nov 30, 2021 2:26:14 GMT -5
They worked literally three matches against each other. That doesn't even qualify as a brisk filler feud in modern WWE, I think it's greatly overselling Deonna's track record to count three enhancement matches as sizable in-ring time and some kind of definitive proof of a point. Especially when the matches she's injured people in seem to run longer, which would indicate a very different sort of risk of sloppiness than the short matches they worked together would run into. I wouldn't be surprised if there's under five minutes of total ring time between the two. Now that's a good point! By itself, that quote isn't definitive proof. And as you say, it's possible Nia was safe in short matches but more dangerous in longer ones (which could be for several reasons, but is unlikely to be due to "reckless disregard for her opponents" since that would apply just as much in a short match). But three matches with Nia Jax is still three more than anyone here's had, and by someone who is actually a wrestler and thus has a far more personal and professional interest in how a wrestler treats the safety of their opponent than most here have, so it's not inconsequential information either. She still knows better than we do. Also, again, she is widely liked by her peers. That seems hard to understand if she hurts them because she doesn't care about them and then brags about it. It seems much easier to understand if the situation is a little more complex and/or benign.
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Nov 30, 2021 2:50:34 GMT -5
I don't really know what to think about Nia anymore. I mean one hand she injured a lot of people. One or two ok maybe you can give her the benefit of the doubt and say it was just freak accidents. However when it five, six, seven or however many it's been then it's a case of someone being unsafe. However yet when it comes to her peers it seems like everyone really liked her and loved working with her so I don't know. It's really strange. I guess maybe she was someone who was a nice person and easy to work with as far putting a match together goes but didn't know her own size and strength which could lead her injuring people. It will be interesting. On one hand she definitely has name value as she was on WWE TV for like six years and was pushed and prominent for all of it. On the other hand she's 37, has two surgically repaired knees, and has a reputation for being dangerous to work with. To me she's kind of one of those people like Braun where you can't really see them anywhere else but WWE. I guess maybe Impact would pick her up. I don't see AEW signing her. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if she's back in WWE in a year. Vince loves her and I can see him bringing her back to be the big giant heel. I'm not sold that they are that into Doudrop. Nah. Nia is likely never coming back to WWE. Especially with her refusal to get vaccinated. Maybe she can work in the new XPW then.
|
|
Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
|
Post by Blade on Nov 30, 2021 2:54:06 GMT -5
This is the largest conceivable yikes. Kayfabe doesn't mean anything because this is her in a tweet saying she's not going back to wrestling, so there is no heel work, there is no story being sold. She is being actually very up front, presenting her real name as her real name, stamping the tweet with a "this isn't wrestling, this is me" authenticity, and giving the promise that she's not going back to it. This wasn't for heat. But this is gonna be my last response to you because wow is that little snippet uh. A lot. You don't inherently have more empathy toward someone's harassment just because you're forgiving of the bad thing they're doing in response. Absolutely 0% no, that's not a claim that gets to be made, so I'm out. Mmm, right, because we were only discussing this one tweet ever and not the other times this happened. Nobody ever brought up any other time anything similar was tweeted by Nia Jax, nope, nosiree, your reaction is totally warranted because nobody was ever discussing anything she ever said on twitter before this one message under her real name. So, sure, let's take this one, singular, message in isolation. She made a sarcastic comment at people who were insulting her about this issue. That comment was "In all fairness, 'Opponent Crippler' would be a SOLID front-runner if I ever decide to wrestle again." You apparently think this is a beyond the pale move which is actually more important than if she had injured people through carelessness or not ("Let's say everybody who got hurt in a Nia Jax match was not hurt through her sloppiness but just an earnest in-ring mistake, because I actually don't care nearly as much about legislating intent or who's whyu she got hurt.") I think you are indulging in an unwarranted overreaction, not least of which because she has not in fact crippled anybody. (I would also note that there is a very long tradition of using legit injuries for heat in wrestling and that it is likely they might not see it the same way you do, and that threads on Owen Hart don't get spammed pointing out he wore a shirt making fun of breaking Austin's neck, even though I'd say that is in many ways worse than even the worst interpretation of what Nia posted.) I would also note that it is pretty hyperbolic to call that the "largest conceivable yikes" in even your extremely uncharitable interpretation of what I was saying, since I could be saying, oh, I don't know, "They all deserved it because insert-reason-here".
|
|
Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
|
Post by Blade on Nov 30, 2021 3:02:55 GMT -5
You do know what statistical significance is, right? Because one handpicked account taken at face value doesn't explain anything, and this also doesn't consider any potential bias from the source (i.e. friendship, personal history, professional goals, etc). Now as for actual statistical significance, has Nia Jax, when compared to someone at her professional level and with her experience, caused injury to more wrestlers by comparison to the mean? If the answer is 'yes' and the most common denominator isn't the opponent, or a factor outside of Nia's control: then the fault is in her performance, reckless, or otherwise. That's not debatable. I would invite to read my initial post in the thread again, assuming you read it in the first place. In fact, my argument does not rest on Deonna Purrazzo's account. It introduced it, and then I literally never mentioned it again in that initial post (because it was not the entire basis for my argument). What I did mention in that post was that there were a lot of factors that could play into why she may have "caused injury to more wrestlers by comparison to the mean", which makes it very funny you're calling me out on it. People relentlessly attack that account so I have to keep defending it, but it was never the crux my argument rested on. It's a piece of evidence, and I freely admitted it isn't proof of anything by itself. But it IS a piece of evidence. Also, I didn't handpick the account. It came up very quickly in a google search on the subject, since before I posted I wanted to know what other workers had to say about her - because, as I previously noted, I put a lot more stock in that than I do armchair evaluations by fans.
|
|
Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
|
Post by Blade on Nov 30, 2021 3:04:33 GMT -5
Your entire point rests on someone who worked a few low profile squashes saying, "Well she didn't injure me!" You must have a LOT of corn. Watch it, there's a lot of floods about this year.
|
|
|
Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Nov 30, 2021 4:16:12 GMT -5
Wow ... she's really making jokes about injuring people.
Jax should have been canned long ago
|
|
|
Post by crashmatsbazz on Nov 30, 2021 5:02:28 GMT -5
I don't think she purposely tried to injure anyone, I don't think she ever worked on her craft though. After 3 or 4 mins in the ring she was sloppy. if a match lasted more than 6 minutes she would be really sloppy. lets all just forget about her and then in 5 years remember and laugh at her.
|
|
|
Post by Andee9001 on Nov 30, 2021 5:20:36 GMT -5
Her leaving the industry leaves such a HOLE to fill.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 5:55:00 GMT -5
Impact may have been interested but probably not willing to match her WWE salary. Can't see AEW being interested at all. Lot of young green women workers there so any vet that gets signed needs a good reputation for safety. A non vaxxer so would find it incredibly difficult to get booked abroad and she'd probably last one match in Mexico or Japan before being dropped off at the airport for her own good.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 8:54:19 GMT -5
No one has ever been so amused about being a failure. That's not true, I greatly amuse myself. Anyway, Nia should've been fired a long time ago. She can easily land on her feet doing modeling or being a body image spokesperson so I'll shed no tears for a sloppy, shitty wrestler, who jokes about the legit injuries she's caused due to her sloppiness and shittiness, being let go.
|
|
nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 7,014
|
Post by nate5054 on Nov 30, 2021 10:31:05 GMT -5
So if she's a really dangerous worker but also (at least outwardly) has the respect of a lot of her colleagues, there appears to be a bit of a disconnect.
Perhaps:
A) Her colleagues don't view her as a dangerous worker, or not excessively so
B) Her colleagues view her as dangerous, but it doesn't seem to matter all that much to them, at least in terms of them liking her
C) Her colleagues view her as dangerous, but she has enough other good qualities (like maybe she's just super nice) that they overlook it
D) Her colleagues view her as dangerous and really don't respect her and just made all these comments praising her for good PR or something
Personally I thought her joke was a bit of self deprecating humor on her part, but sometimes things don't come off so well in writing. Could be wrong there too though, maybe she really is laughing that she injured people. That doesn't seem to be in line with what people think of her character, but what the hell do I know.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 10:39:43 GMT -5
So if she's a really dangerous worker but also (at least outwardly) has the respect of a lot of her colleagues, there appears to be a bit of a disconnect. Perhaps: A) Her colleagues don't view her as a dangerous worker, or not excessively so
B) Her colleagues view her as dangerous, but it doesn't seem to matter all that much to them, at least in terms of them liking her
C) Her colleagues view her as dangerous, but she has enough other good qualities (like maybe she's just super nice) that they overlook itD) Her colleagues view her as dangerous and really don't respect her and just made all these comments praising her for good PR or something Personally I thought her joke was a bit of self deprecating humor on her part, but sometimes things don't come off so well in writing. Could be wrong there too though, maybe she really is laughing that she injured people. That doesn't seem to be in line with what people think of her character, but what the hell do I know. The answer here is B and C.
Yeah Nia sucks in the ring, yeah she's dangerous, yeah she's hurt coworkers but those same coworkers and peers of hers still love, care, support and push her no matter what she does so they either overlook it or they don't care as much as fans do because they know her. Social media proves it when they're showing her more love than most of the other women on that same roster. It's not even WWE exclusive because AEW talent have shown her love as well.
Doesn't matter if it's "right or wrong", that's how they feel so it is what it is regardless of what any of us think. We're just people looking in at the end of the day.
Hell, Charlotte gets way more backlash than Nia when it comes to wrestlers and Charlotte is still heavily loved by the roster.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,256
|
Post by Mozenrath on Nov 30, 2021 10:43:56 GMT -5
I don't think she purposely tried to injure anyone, I don't think she ever worked on her craft though. After 3 or 4 mins in the ring she was sloppy. if a match lasted more than 6 minutes she would be really sloppy. lets all just forget about her and then in 5 years remember and laugh at her. She honestly really should have retired when her legs got messed up. She wasn't nearly as bad before that. She still had bad moments, but she also had genuinely pretty decent matches with some people and was for a time pretty over. Then she came back and really brought nothing redeeming with her on the return. Slower than ever, less control of her strength, and just more of a mess. Had she stayed gone, people probably would have cut her some slack and remembered her more fondly.
|
|