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Post by jason1980s on Jan 16, 2022 14:09:44 GMT -5
I am glad the OP mentioned the Rock and Sable. There is not a thing sexy about Sable and was just another hire by the WWE because Vince feels the need to prove to people he is straight alpha male. The Rock was great as a heel but when he was a face he sounded like he was trying too hard for people to like him. Same here, even at 12 years old I thought Sable looked to be in her late 40s, early 50s. I can't believe she was only 27 when she debuted.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Jan 16, 2022 14:14:56 GMT -5
Daniel Bryan at the peak of his popularity I found annoying a lot of the time. When he first started getting cheered he was an emotionally (and they hinted physically) abusive boyfriend to AJ Lee and was responsible for her basically having a mental breakdown and her "crazy" gimmick. It's like no one cared about that kayfabe stuff though and just cheered because he was a good wrestler.
Similar to Austin's "What?!", I liked Bryan's yes/no thing for comedy stuff but hated it during personal feuds. People would cut a serious promo and he would just respond by chanting yes or no.
He just came off like a child a lot of the time and would be a complete dick. He was eliminated fair and square in the 2015 Royal Rumble then came out the next week acting like he deserved the Wrestlemania main event. The year before during the yes movement segment he was demanding to be put in the world title match over Batista who won the RR. John Cena handed him a title shot at Summerslam (despite him spending the previous 6 months losing to The Shield almost every week) and he was completely ungrateful over it and said Cena was a shitty wrestler (yet Cena had beaten him clean in their previous match). The break-up of Team Hell No and his brief team with Orton was completely on him and how much of a dumbass he was being, costing them matches. He tricked the Wyatt Family by making them think he'd joined them but during those few weeks he willingly took part and helped beat the hell out of the Usos and other innocent babyfaces. As babyface GM he made fun of Miz's wrestling style for being too safe, as opposed to himself who was so reckless he had to retire due to brain/concussion issues.
As a character I much prefer the badass, grizzled veteran Bryan/Danielson of the past 2 years to the full on yes man gimmick.
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Post by cassonova on Jan 16, 2022 14:29:30 GMT -5
I have only enjoyed Johnny Gargano as part of the Way. I always referred to him as Johnny CAW.
I don't understand Darby Allin at all. I'm not entirely sure how Darby is supposed to win matches and I'm also not sure how you are an underdog if you win a majority of your matches.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Jan 16, 2022 14:39:00 GMT -5
Orange Cassidy when he actually wrestles is good, or at least can be good.
Orange Cassidy doing his full-on shtick (and not incorporating his shtick into his work) I have absolutely no time for. I really don't have much time for guys whose entire act depends on their opponent acting stupid or acting out-of-character for a wrestler. In a completely different way, 1997 DX fits this as well. They steamrolled everybody because they were allowed to get away with things that everyone else on the roster wasn't.
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Post by wendytorrancev1 on Jan 16, 2022 14:43:46 GMT -5
I am glad the OP mentioned the Rock and Sable. There is not a thing sexy about Sable and was just another hire by the WWE because Vince feels the need to prove to people he is straight alpha male. The Rock was great as a heel but when he was a face he sounded like he was trying too hard for people to like him. Same here, even at 12 years old I thought Sable looked to be in her late 40s, early 50s. I can't believe she was only 27 when she debuted. She did look pretty old. I think it was her poor choice in using that cheap makeup.
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Post by ISO Mid Thigh Pull on Jan 16, 2022 15:42:00 GMT -5
Finding out that people loved Mr. Kennedy when I first rly discovered wrestling forums threw me for a loop cause I think one of the first times I felt smarky emotions was when he was feuding with Undertaker in 05 and the whole time I was just like "who the f*** is that guy"
Also you're now remembering that Mr. Kennedy and The Undertaker had a feud.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jan 16, 2022 15:55:56 GMT -5
I LOATHED Stone Cold Steve Austin. Dude was a straight-up bully who enthusiastically would beat up anyone lower than him on the totem pole to get the spotlight on him whenever he wanted. He reacted to anyone being nice to him with physical violence (and WOW that fact doesn't age well given certain subsequent events). His sole motivation was a petulant, teenage "you can't tell me what to do, mom!" attitude, which completely destroyed anything potentially noble or moral about him rebelling against the boss. He just ALWAYS won, was ALWAYS better than EVERYONE, and yet was portrayed as some struggling everyman underdog.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 16, 2022 16:23:55 GMT -5
Zack Ryder. I respect the hell out of the way he got himself over, but as a talent I never saw much in him. I hear he's doing good things outside of WWE now but I haven't seen any of it. For what it's worth I hate every second of his work outside of GCW. The Gage match alone is a minor masterpiece.
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Post by jason1980s on Jan 16, 2022 16:40:19 GMT -5
I LOATHED Stone Cold Steve Austin. Dude was a straight-up bully who enthusiastically would beat up anyone lower than him on the totem pole to get the spotlight on him whenever he wanted. He reacted to anyone being nice to him with physical violence (and WOW that fact doesn't age well given certain subsequent events). His sole motivation was a petulant, teenage "you can't tell me what to do, mom!" attitude, which completely destroyed anything potentially noble or moral about him rebelling against the boss. He just ALWAYS won, was ALWAYS better than EVERYONE, and yet was portrayed as some struggling everyman underdog. It does shock me that the guy who was mostly undercard in WCW, an extra in the Dangerous Alliance and wound up in a somewhat popular tag team in WCW because creative literally had nothing for either man became so huge in WWF. But I know the times were changing and fans wanted a cursing anti-hero who would rage against authority. Still, it does surprise me, it was HIM. It's a huge "what if?" if WWF had hired Chris Benoit as the Ted Dibiase protege at the time.
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Post by clodhopper on Jan 16, 2022 16:57:58 GMT -5
Watching back as an adult I think he's great but as a kid this was definitely Bret Hart for me. Ultimate Warrior as well. Couldn't understand why all my friends loved them.
In the current era - Darby Allin, Jon Moxley and especially Sami Callihan. Allin and Moxley make up for it in ring but their characters make me feel like an out of touch old man (I'm 38) who just doesn't 'get it'. And hey, maybe that's true. I find Moxley a bit cringy on the mic as well.
Callihan I just think is just terrible, the whole presentation. Corny as hell and absolutely not in a good way.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Jan 16, 2022 17:16:10 GMT -5
I LOATHED Stone Cold Steve Austin. Dude was a straight-up bully who enthusiastically would beat up anyone lower than him on the totem pole to get the spotlight on him whenever he wanted. He reacted to anyone being nice to him with physical violence (and WOW that fact doesn't age well given certain subsequent events). His sole motivation was a petulant, teenage "you can't tell me what to do, mom!" attitude, which completely destroyed anything potentially noble or moral about him rebelling against the boss. He just ALWAYS won, was ALWAYS better than EVERYONE, and yet was portrayed as some struggling everyman underdog. I never got into him because I live in the rural south. If I wanted to see a white dude with a shaved head & goatee who drinks too much shitty beer and yells about kicking everybody's ass, I would go to the nearest Dollar General.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,118
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Post by tafkaga on Jan 16, 2022 17:53:27 GMT -5
Agreed that babyface Rock was tiresome, not as bad as babyface HBK, but I didn't enjoy him. That said, I like Dwayne Johnson as a person.
At risk of sounding like certain podcasters and promoters/managers from the past, I thought that at his peak, Benoit did more to damage the wrestling business. My favorite example is a match between Benoit and Guerrero from '95, can't remember which PPV, where they just did one devastating looking move after another to one another and then just kept kicking out at 2. It's the equivalent not just of blowing their entire load in one match, but blowing the entire PPV's load in one match. Moreso, they took moves that should have been match enders and trivialized them for pops. Terrible psychology. Not a fan.
I thought Roddy Piper was an amazing heel but kind of annoying as a babyface.
Rey Mysterio. Ugh.
I could go on.
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Post by DiBiase is Good on Jan 16, 2022 18:06:35 GMT -5
Drew Carey at Royal Rumble 2001- I did not find this endearing in the least bit. I thought it was poorly thought out and stupid. I really, really, really wanted Kane to finish his aborted chokeslam on him. He took up a spot from a legitimate wrestler. Royal Rumble 2001 was a perfect and spotless Royal Rumble without some stupid "hot at the time celebrity" cameo or whatever. That was Vinnie Mac trying to be "mainstream", "cool", and "in touch with the audience", but looking at it 20 years later, it looks stupid, pandering, and pathetic. Asinine. I don’t recall anyone ever saying anything good about it. It’s why his induction into the WWE HoF was booed. It was always shit. My pick is Raven. Oh he’s a whinging little shit who’s pissed off at the world. How edgy.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,934
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jan 16, 2022 18:30:19 GMT -5
I LOATHED Stone Cold Steve Austin. Dude was a straight-up bully who enthusiastically would beat up anyone lower than him on the totem pole to get the spotlight on him whenever he wanted. He reacted to anyone being nice to him with physical violence (and WOW that fact doesn't age well given certain subsequent events). His sole motivation was a petulant, teenage "you can't tell me what to do, mom!" attitude, which completely destroyed anything potentially noble or moral about him rebelling against the boss. He just ALWAYS won, was ALWAYS better than EVERYONE, and yet was portrayed as some struggling everyman underdog. I was never a fan, but I didn’t mind him. He was just there for me.
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Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,693
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Post by Kalmia on Jan 16, 2022 18:32:42 GMT -5
I LOATHED Stone Cold Steve Austin. Dude was a straight-up bully who enthusiastically would beat up anyone lower than him on the totem pole to get the spotlight on him whenever he wanted. He reacted to anyone being nice to him with physical violence (and WOW that fact doesn't age well given certain subsequent events). His sole motivation was a petulant, teenage "you can't tell me what to do, mom!" attitude, which completely destroyed anything potentially noble or moral about him rebelling against the boss. He just ALWAYS won, was ALWAYS better than EVERYONE, and yet was portrayed as some struggling everyman underdog. 100% all of this. I think Austin was a great wrestler and an awesome promo, but I hated the Stone Cold character and how he was all over every damn show. Plus, the nonsensical twists, turns, and excuses for why Vince didn't just fire him outright.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jan 16, 2022 18:56:52 GMT -5
I'm 100% with you about Sable. She had big fake boobs and that was really it. There was other women on the roster who where hotter and could do more than she could. If she didn't have her demons and issues. Sunny in the day was better. HHH and Hogan, never got the love when people did like them. I know the feeling is different now for the most part. But back in the day we all know Hogan was very popular. HHH still gets his pops. Me, I'm just meh. The reign of terror killed the interest I had in him. Even in face runs an ext after it. I was like meh. D-X was ok but it was still more about him and Shawn now the goofy sidekick.
Orton is another guy, who just people say he just go great. To me, just boring. I should like him being he a local guy for me but I just can't.
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Facetious
King Koopa
ADAM COLE BAYBAY
Posts: 11,677
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Post by Facetious on Jan 16, 2022 21:00:40 GMT -5
When I was a kid it was honestly Chris Benoit lmao And look how that worked out Gargano is mine. Dude is corny as hell and does all of the overdramatic “Noooo my soullllllll” bullshit in matches. He’s sucked since his title reign sucked the life out of DGUSA. I started warming up on him in NXT when he was putting out bangers. Then he got overly dramatic with his never ending Ciampa feud and I lost all hope again. But good God his DGUSA run was horrid. The fact that Gabe thought Gargano needed a Samoa Joe run proves why he has zero juice left.
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Post by ISO Mid Thigh Pull on Jan 16, 2022 21:06:58 GMT -5
And look how that worked out Gargano is mine. Dude is corny as hell and does all of the overdramatic “Noooo my soullllllll” bullshit in matches. He’s sucked since his title reign sucked the life out of DGUSA. I started warming up on him in NXT when he was putting out bangers. Then he got overly dramatic with his never ending Ciampa feud and I lost all hope again. But good God his DGUSA run was horrid. The fact that Gabe thought Gargano needed a Samoa Joe run proves why he has zero juice left. I've not seen Gargano's DGUSA run but I love that I don't think I've ever not heard it said as a horror story dating back to like 2014.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Jan 16, 2022 22:25:49 GMT -5
I am glad the OP mentioned the Rock and Sable. There is not a thing sexy about Sable and was just another hire by the WWE because Vince feels the need to prove to people he is straight alpha male. The Rock was great as a heel but when he was a face he sounded like he was trying too hard for people to like him. As a 15 year old kid I thought she was hot, but looking back she definitely was kinda generic and fake looking I actually thought she was better when she turned heel since she had some kind of personality then
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Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
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Post by Blade on Jan 16, 2022 23:15:56 GMT -5
Everybody else already said the Rock, and I'm not gonna pretend everyone likes Jerry Lawler, so:
Undertaker. I hated him in 1990, the first year I watched WWF. Then he would still be there every other stint I watched WWE/F for decades, even after literally everyone else from that period (except, sigh, Jerry Lawler) was long gone.
9 out of 10 Undertaker feuds were always boring foregone conclusions, and for years they were also boring matches. He killed the heat of nearly everyone he feuded with for years. Every Undertaker feud was the same for ages:
- Monster heel shows up, kills some jobbers - Gets into confrontation with Undertaker, says "I'm not scared of him!" - Shows he actually is scared of him - Undertaker no sells whatever they do and wins in the end - Monster heel either vanishes or becomes a lame jobber babyface afterwards
He eventually learned how to have good matches, yes. He still routinely murdered the heat of every heel he feuded with. Remember when Booker T got transferred to Smackdown, got a new look and heel character, then ran into the Undertaker and within weeks was consulting mysterious old ladies for voodoo charms? Such good shit. People said for years that having a match with Undertaker at Wrestlemania was as good as wrestling in the main event. No it wasn't. Most of his matches were forgettable or outright bad, and nobody thinks A-Train did the equivalent of main eventing Wrestlemania. His matches were notable when they were built up to be notable, and when they weren't , they weren't.
Also he was a backstage bully and petty tyrant who never caught the heat for it that say Hardcore Holly or Bradshaw did for reasons that are 100% to do with being a more beloved wrestler than them, but honestly, he could be as saintlike as Molly Holly and I'd acknowledge that and still say I hated ever seeing him on my tv screen, which is bitter irony since he (and Lawler!) were the only constants of the entirety of my time watching WWE.
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