|
Post by sungod2020 on Feb 20, 2022 16:56:25 GMT -5
One thing that dosen't add up though is the fact that the general public knew, at least on some level that it was fixed. It was even documented in pop culture such as that "I Love Lucy" comic book and an episode of Woody Woodpecker where he shows one of the performers the script on what to do. I can understand not wanting to give away certain secrets(such as blading), but the cat was already out of the bag. Who were they trying to fool?
|
|
|
Post by defectiveepitaph on Feb 20, 2022 17:20:43 GMT -5
who were they trying to fool? Themselves.
|
|
Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
|
Post by Blade on Feb 20, 2022 19:47:26 GMT -5
My understanding is that what Slaughter does technically isn't stolen valor since he never acts like he, Robert Remus, is a veteran, just the character. I also don't think he's tried to cash in on benefits or any of the sort of fraud. That doesn't make it not in poor taste, granted, and he certainly rides the line sometimes. Yeah, but reminiscing about his experiences in Vietnam (that he never had) at conventions and appearences is something where I can totally understand why they'd be upset at him. Although seriously, "stolen valor" is such a hilariously pretentious term, just say "impersonating" or "pretending to be" like literally any other job would, geez.
|
|
|
Post by jason1980s on Feb 20, 2022 20:10:13 GMT -5
I also seem to remember a story about the guy who worked as Vladimir Koloff introducing himself to someone (I want to say Bobby Fulton of the Fantastics) as "Vladimir Koloff, Ivan's nephew." Bobby (or whoever) called him a stupid son of a bitch and walked away from him. I'd be surprised if it was Bobby. Bobby is a very nice, kind man, I'd be surprised if he said that to someone though if he said it to Ivan that would be great. I do remember the story of someone calling him out on it. But the thing I remember most about Vladimir is BOTH my grandmother and aunt getting me his signed 8x10 and I was totally disappointed each time. This guy was a nobody! The thing was Ivan had been doing autograph signings at Wal Marts for the Children's Miracle Network. At some point he started working with the guy known as Vladimir and they did it together. When Ivan stopped doing it, Vladimir kept on doing it but I bet he wasn't doing it for charity. I feel like a few shoot interviews have gone very badly from older wrestlers refusing to break kayfabe. Arn was always terrible for this. It's one thing when a super out there character is keeping the act going, or during your career, but long afterwards when you had a pretty basic character, it doesn't really work... ironically. Arn's book was all in kayfabe too, I believe. I got screwed by someone years ago on an official Arn site who was selling Arn signed 8x10s and accepting mail order items for signing for a charity called "Scoring For Children." The autographs I got weren't signed by Arn. I doubt he had any involvement in this but I wish I could find out why this happened. I do also think someone should have put a stop to Slaughter's kayfabe. I think a true military service is one thing that should be untouchable to wrestlers keeping kayfabe.
|
|
Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,952
|
Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Feb 20, 2022 23:12:39 GMT -5
I remember WWF booked Bret and Owen Hart on seperate flights to keep the illusion of their feud going. . They drove together to the Royal Rumble in 1994. On the way home, Owen had to lie on the floor of the backseat with a bunch of coats and Bret’s sons on top of him to hide him from the fans. That’s more cute than extreme though. Bret told a story that during the feud, he and Owen were booked on the same flight, but waiting in line and not talking and ignoring each something. Then, Bret whispered something to Owen and the security guy said “I knew it!!! I knew you guys really talked!!”
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2022 4:39:15 GMT -5
One thing that dosen't add up though is the fact that the general public knew, at least on some level that it was fixed. It was even documented in pop culture such as that "I Love Lucy" comic book and an episode of Woody Woodpecker where he shows one of the performers the script on what to do. I can understand not wanting to give away certain secrets(such as blading), but the cat was already out of the bag. Who were they trying to fool? It was probably like modern day reality TV. 30 seconds of thinking would have most working out its scripted even if gullible but as long as its presented as real and the stars don't let the cat out of the bag you don't do that 30 seconds of thinking and suspend disbelief much easier. Everyone knows reality TV is fake but people can forget its fake when the show is on.
|
|
|
Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Feb 21, 2022 6:07:07 GMT -5
Regarding the crash, they probably could have gotten away with just saying the plane crashed due to the heels and babyfaces fighting in mid air That would have been better than making that one poor fella wrestler after that The problem is that anyone who knew about Tim Woods being in the plane knew it was a small private plane, and not a passenger jet where it's conceivable that a heel and a face could book the same flight. If tensions were that high that the wrestlers would risk their lives getting in a fight in the air, why would Woods board the plane to begin with?
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on Feb 21, 2022 8:24:52 GMT -5
Keeping kayfabe didn't work for Dave Schultz He was more kicked out of wrestling for being a shithead, more than the keeping kayfabe bit. Despite him (and even Dark Side of the Ring) trying to push the narrative that Vince blackballed him. Vince did not have that much power in the 80s, and multiple promotions hired him afterwards. But then he pulled shit like saying Jerry Lawler had AIDs in Memphis... and Promoters just got tired of dealing with him.
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on Feb 21, 2022 8:29:32 GMT -5
One thing that dosen't add up though is the fact that the general public knew, at least on some level that it was fixed. It was even documented in pop culture such as that "I Love Lucy" comic book and an episode of Woody Woodpecker where he shows one of the performers the script on what to do. I can understand not wanting to give away certain secrets(such as blading), but the cat was already out of the bag. Who were they trying to fool? Hell the first big "Wrestling isn't real" news story came from like the 30's... so it wasn't like it was even a secret that it was a show all that long. (It is generally accepted that it started getting staged in the 20s.)
|
|
|
Post by sungod2020 on Feb 21, 2022 8:39:09 GMT -5
One thing that dosen't add up though is the fact that the general public knew, at least on some level that it was fixed. It was even documented in pop culture such as that "I Love Lucy" comic book and an episode of Woody Woodpecker where he shows one of the performers the script on what to do. I can understand not wanting to give away certain secrets(such as blading), but the cat was already out of the bag. Who were they trying to fool? It was probably like modern day reality TV. 30 seconds of thinking would have most working out its scripted even if gullible but as long as its presented as real and the stars don't let the cat out of the bag you don't do that 30 seconds of thinking and suspend disbelief much easier. Everyone knows reality TV is fake but people can forget its fake when the show is on. Which is all good, especially in those days. I don't have a problem with protecting the business by keeping faces and heels in separate hotels and such. My problem is promoters and wrestlers were pretending it's real long after the secret has been exposed, even in ridiculously extreme situations, such as Grizzly Smith scaring his children into running out of town or "Classie" Freddie Blassie antagonizing that mob boss who had a loaded gun. With the latter example think of that one episode of South Park where those actors played frontiersmen in the 19th century. In that episode the exhibit was being taken over by terrorists and despite their lives being in danger, they would never break character and tell them the code to the vault. One was even being shot by the other "frontiersmen" for about to break character and in another case they were about to let a child(obviously Kenny) die for pretending not to know what the present is. The crazy thing about wrestling back in those days is some would go that far to protect kayfabe which is beyond ridiculous in itself when everybody knew it was fake. I wouldn't be surprised if that's where the idea of wrestlers being idiots came from. I still remember this one broadcast in 1989 where "Captain" Lou Albano refused to break kayfabe by saying "maybe WWF is scripted, but NWA is real." Wish I can find the clip somewhere, but it just goes to show you how hard he tried to cling onto kayfabe.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,127
|
Post by Mozenrath on Feb 21, 2022 8:40:27 GMT -5
Keeping kayfabe didn't work for Dave Schultz He was more kicked out of wrestling for being a shithead, more than the keeping kayfabe bit. Despite him (and even Dark Side of the Ring) trying to push the narrative that Vince blackballed him. Vince did not have that much power in the 80s, and multiple promotions hired him afterwards. But then he pulled shit like saying Jerry Lawler had AIDs in Memphis... and Promoters just got tired of dealing with him. Right. He was just kind of too stupid for wrestling, not unlike Nailz, and would blow up his spot different places by not exercising good judgment. Judging by his Wikipedia account that frankly kind of sounds like he wrote portions of it, he went into bounty hunting and found success in that, so, maybe he just stopped trying to get booked after washing out of Memphis by being an idiot, anyhow.
|
|
|
Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Feb 21, 2022 8:55:04 GMT -5
Arn Anderson talked in kayfabe throughout that entire 4 Horsemen DVD that WWE released in 2007. I've only seen clips of it but it seems he did the same in that RF shoot he did in the late 90's or early 2000's. Even if you listen to Arn's podcast he doesn't go into very much detail about anything. Most answers are very vague and very brief. That’s what I came here to post, specifically when he’s discussing the 4 Horseman beating down Dusty in the parking lot. Everyone else is talking about it out of kayfabe and then there’s Arn talking about how he’s shocked they never got arrested because they broadcast assault with a weapon on national television. Annoyed the shit out of me the first couple times I watched it, but Now I find it hilarious.
|
|
thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,659
|
Post by thecrusherwi on Feb 21, 2022 9:05:39 GMT -5
One thing that dosen't add up though is the fact that the general public knew, at least on some level that it was fixed. It was even documented in pop culture such as that "I Love Lucy" comic book and an episode of Woody Woodpecker where he shows one of the performers the script on what to do. I can understand not wanting to give away certain secrets(such as blading), but the cat was already out of the bag. Who were they trying to fool? Yeah I don't get it. I get like a "soft" kayfabe in public like Ray Traylor no-selling the car door as Big Bubba or Undertaker always dressing in black and stuff like that. More protecting your character and keeping the mystique around yourself - wrestling might be fake, but this guy is an interesting person. But kayfabing your children and stuff is pathological.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,127
|
Post by Mozenrath on Feb 21, 2022 9:08:13 GMT -5
More funny than anything else, but in I think maybe FCW, or possibly in the UK scene before he came to the US, Sheamus had a date waiting for him backstage since he'd be finishing up soon. In either case, it was before his main roster run.
Someone approached her to tell her, "Oh, Shaun will be free soon."
"Oh, I'm waiting for Sheamus."
He apparently just... picked up women in-character as Sheamus O'Shaunnessy. No idea if it was the woman who'd later become his wife, probably not, but that'd be one hell of a story.
|
|
|
Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Feb 21, 2022 9:15:19 GMT -5
Kane when he debut to unmasking. He used to travel with a full face cover everywhere he went. Wears the mask for signings of course but when travel through airports, He had a Stocking cap that covered his face, so fans couldn't see he wasn't burned.
|
|
|
Post by jason1980s on Feb 21, 2022 9:57:46 GMT -5
Kane when he debut to unmasking. He used to travel with a full face cover everywhere he went. Wears the mask for signings of course but when travel through airports, He had a Stocking cap that covered his face, so fans couldn't see he wasn't burned. Boogeyman would travel with the shroud over his face as well. I think he even had in during airplane flights based on a few pictures I saw.
|
|
BorneAgain
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,301
Member is Online
|
Post by BorneAgain on Feb 21, 2022 17:17:27 GMT -5
As far as fans not seeing wrestling as a work, I think in some cases prior to the mid 80s there was a cognitive dissonance at work with some where other promotions/territories could be dismissed as fake, but what they watched was real. Get enough isolated companies that audiences saw weekly, and ones that wanted to think it was legit? I think that's how you get the occasional riot and fans going after heels.
|
|
|
Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Feb 21, 2022 21:33:19 GMT -5
People love to say that no one believed, but the fact that stabbings and shootings continued as late as the '80s says otherwise. It's fine to not understand how that was possible, but it is indisputably real.
I always loved the story about Kamala, who may have still been Sugar Bear Harris, winning a $500 battle royal on TV one morning, working the show that night, pulling into his driveway late that night, and being met by his excited wife who just wanted to see that $500. Kamala, who had already forgotten about the battle royal that morning, said he didn't have any $500.
His wife, thinking he had blown the money (probably with another woman) grabbed a gun. Kamala fled across the road to a lumber yard where he spent the night.
The next morning, he had a long conversation with his wife about what was real and what wasn't.
|
|
|
Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Feb 21, 2022 21:50:31 GMT -5
Regarding the crash, they probably could have gotten away with just saying the plane crashed due to the heels and babyfaces fighting in mid air That would have been better than making that one poor fella wrestler after that The problem is that anyone who knew about Tim Woods being in the plane knew it was a small private plane, and not a passenger jet where it's conceivable that a heel and a face could book the same flight. If tensions were that high that the wrestlers would risk their lives getting in a fight in the air, why would Woods board the plane to begin with? He couldn't pass up the offer of a free flight?
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,127
|
Post by Mozenrath on Feb 21, 2022 22:04:05 GMT -5
People love to say that no one believed, but the fact that stabbings and shootings continued as late as the '80s says otherwise. It's fine to not understand how that was possible, but it is indisputably real. I always loved the story about Kamala, who may have still been Sugar Bear Harris, winning a $500 battle royal on TV one morning, working the show that night, pulling into his driveway late that night, and being met by his excited wife who just wanted to see that $500. Kamala, who had already forgotten about the battle royal that morning, said he didn't have any $500. His wife, thinking he had blown the money (probably with another woman) grabbed a gun. Kamala fled across the road to a lumber yard where he spent the night. The next morning, he had a long conversation with his wife about what was real and what wasn't. I guess he couldn't go the Austin Idol route and go cash a prop check.
|
|