asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,638
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Post by asuka007 on Feb 21, 2022 1:33:59 GMT -5
If they want to “protect” Rhea, do not have her get pinned by Bianca twice in the span of less than a week.
They cannot even do that right.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 21, 2022 1:46:01 GMT -5
I love how people are just going "Throw Carmella in these matches"... You know what that tells me? It means you don't give a f*** about Carmella and you don't care if she loses clean. Straight-up disposable opponent.
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theironyuppie
Hank Scorpio
Idling insignificantly
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Post by theironyuppie on Feb 21, 2022 2:15:13 GMT -5
If they want to “protect” Rhea, do not have her get pinned by Bianca twice in the span of less than a week. They cannot even do that right.
I suppose at least in each case you can say there was some protection. Raw had Bianca coming in fresh while Rhea had already wrestled 30+ minutes, and EC had Bianca coming in last as well as her KOD following from Rhea also taking Alexa's DDT.
As for Carmella, Bianca's already pinned her six or seven times so her being in EC would have had no suspense whatsoever.
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Post by eJm on Feb 21, 2022 7:20:24 GMT -5
I love how people are just going "Throw Carmella in these matches"... You know what that tells me? It means you don't give a f*** about Carmella and you don't care if she loses clean. Straight-up disposable opponent. And, like, what does that say about the match for the contendership to the women’s title if you’re going “We need to fill it with someone we consider a goober”? I know WWE doesn’t really take into the “Wins and losses matter” mantra of most wrestling companies but surely they’d be in the “we want people to watch and not think someone being eliminated 5 seconds in is expectedly” mantra for shows like this, right?
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Feb 21, 2022 7:33:40 GMT -5
Honestly, this is kind of a non-story? There are plenty of different finishes discussed as a match comes together.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 21, 2022 7:43:38 GMT -5
I love how people are just going "Throw Carmella in these matches"... You know what that tells me? It means you don't give a f*** about Carmella and you don't care if she loses clean. Straight-up disposable opponent. And, like, what does that say about the match for the contendership to the women’s title if you’re going “We need to fill it with someone we consider a goober”? I know WWE doesn’t really take into the “Wins and losses matter” mantra of most wrestling companies but surely they’d be in the “we want people to watch and not think someone being eliminated 5 seconds in is expectedly” mantra for shows like this, right? It's just mixed messages to me at this point, you know? You and I both know how much everyone HATES the bullshit protected finishes and distraction finishes and DQs and countouts, because "nobody gets over". Hell, the Jacksonville territory makes it an ACTIVE POINT to not do DQs or countouts unless its in very rare circumstances, most likely for this precise reason. So, the first logical response to that would be "Well, you want clean finishes in every single match, right?". Well, apparently not, because nobody wants their favourite talent to look bad by being definitively beaten. Next logical response... "You want your favourites to never lose?". Also apparently not, because someone winning all the time without any sort of challenge is also bad and leads to people feeling bad for their opponents and a backlash against the dominant talent. At which point my brain just starts short-circuiting. It's why I keep coming back to the outside enhancement talent solution, because it's the only way I can think of that leads to the seeming desired outcome of "My favourite talent never has to lose" without it being over other signed talents.
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Post by mistery on Feb 21, 2022 7:59:02 GMT -5
People should probably realize a Bianca/Rhea feud wouldn't be as hot as you think it would. Especially since Rhea has already been completely chumped on twice by her.
This is why I am adamantly opposed to Bianca getting another long run with the title if she wins it. And they need to call women up from NXT and ACTUALLY USE THEM IN A MEANINGFUL FASHION. Which is why I have said if they call someone like Io up, have her dethrone Bianca fairly quickly upon callup.
It doesn't help that Bianca as a character is getting INCREDIBLY stale. She has had zero character growth or development ever since she was called up.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 21, 2022 8:01:56 GMT -5
People should probably realize a Bianca/Rhea feud wouldn't be as hot as you think it would. Especially since Rhea has already been completely chumped on twice by her. This is why I am adamantly opposed to Bianca getting another long run with the title if she wins it. And they need to call women up from NXT and ACTUALLY USE THEM IN A MEANINGFUL FASHION. Which is why I have said if they call someone like Io up, have her dethrone Bianca fairly quickly upon callup. And then what do you with Shirai after she wins the belt straight away? She’s started at the mountain top, there’s only one way to go from there. Presumably she beats everyone clean herself until everyone is sick of her too, I suppose.
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Post by eJm on Feb 21, 2022 8:04:07 GMT -5
People should probably realize a Bianca/Rhea feud wouldn't be as hot as you think it would. Especially since Rhea has already been completely chumped on twice by her. This is why I am adamantly opposed to Bianca getting another long run with the title if she wins it. And they need to call women up from NXT and ACTUALLY USE THEM IN A MEANINGFUL FASHION. Which is why I have said if they call someone like Io up, have her dethrone Bianca fairly quickly upon callup. And then what do you with Shirai after she wins the belt straight away? She’s started at the mountain top, there’s only one way to go from there. Presumably she beats everyone clean herself until everyone is sick of her too, I suppose. Also...I'm going to say after the circumstances she lost the belt the first time that having her lose quickly to the first callup that approaches her...it ain't going to be seen particularly well. I'm not saying it can't happen but they just about earned some kind of trust that Bianca will win the belt after the shambles of last year so they have to be super delicate with it.
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Post by mistery on Feb 21, 2022 8:06:06 GMT -5
People should probably realize a Bianca/Rhea feud wouldn't be as hot as you think it would. Especially since Rhea has already been completely chumped on twice by her. This is why I am adamantly opposed to Bianca getting another long run with the title if she wins it. And they need to call women up from NXT and ACTUALLY USE THEM IN A MEANINGFUL FASHION. Which is why I have said if they call someone like Io up, have her dethrone Bianca fairly quickly upon callup. And then what do you with Shirai after she wins the belt straight away? She’s started at the mountain top, there’s only one way to go from there. Presumably she beats everyone clean herself until everyone is sick of her too, I suppose. It makes someone a big deal right away instead of having them flounder for months in the midcard. Look at Paige as a good example of this. She won the title on her first night as a main roster member and was set as a big star from that point forward. And if Bianca is going to end up with a long reign of terror like her last one basically ended up being, then it might be time to SERIOUSLY consider adding in midcard titles for the women on both brands, and retiring the tag belts. Because its obvious the top title scene is going to revolve around the 4HW, Bianca, and Ronda pretty much exclusively. No other woman is going to get a chance to run with the ball.
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thehottag
Don Corleone
We're here for one reason only: fame, fortune, & the World Wrestling Federation Tag Team Champions!
Posts: 1,668
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Post by thehottag on Feb 21, 2022 8:11:26 GMT -5
It's not necessarily about 'beating everyone' or 'being champ for [x] time', it's about giving people characters TV time, & storylines with a beginning, middle & end. In WWE, they have so few storylines which progress & have meaning that all we're left with is wins & losses, or who turns heel/face.
It's perfectly fine for someone to lose if they're still a featured act on the show going forward.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 21, 2022 8:14:17 GMT -5
And then what do you with Shirai after she wins the belt straight away? She’s started at the mountain top, there’s only one way to go from there. Presumably she beats everyone clean herself until everyone is sick of her too, I suppose. It makes someone a big deal right away instead of having them flounder for months in the midcard. Look at Paige as a good example of this. She won the title on her first night as a main roster member and was set as a big star from that point forward. She floundered WITH the belt, though, because she was still fighting those same midcard people anyway. First actual major star she fights, in this case AJ Lee (the person she beat for the belt), she loses it straight back to her. You gotta strike a sweet spot between giving someone a strong enough push out of the gate that fans can tell they’re serious about it, but not so much so that you basically plonk them at the top at the beginning and burn out all the best combinations and feuds in like six months and get “teacher’s pet” stink all over them.
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Post by eJm on Feb 21, 2022 8:20:24 GMT -5
It makes someone a big deal right away instead of having them flounder for months in the midcard. Look at Paige as a good example of this. She won the title on her first night as a main roster member and was set as a big star from that point forward. She floundered WITH the belt, though, because she was still fighting those same midcard people anyway. First actual major star she fights, in this case AJ Lee (the person she beat for the belt), she loses it straight back to her. Yeah, looking at her Wikipedia, her first title defenses were against Brie Bella (which she didn't even win, it ended in a DQ), Tamina, Alicia Fox, Cameron and Naomi before losing it back to AJ. That's not exactly her being "set as a big star from that point forward". No disrespect to Naomi whose probably the best out of the 5.
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Post by mistery on Feb 21, 2022 8:29:43 GMT -5
It makes someone a big deal right away instead of having them flounder for months in the midcard. Look at Paige as a good example of this. She won the title on her first night as a main roster member and was set as a big star from that point forward. She floundered WITH the belt, though, because she was still fighting those same midcard people anyway. First actual major star she fights, in this case AJ Lee (the person she beat for the belt), she loses it straight back to her. You gotta strike a sweet spot between giving someone a strong enough push out of the gate that fans can tell they’re serious about it, but not so much so that you basically plonk them at the top at the beginning and burn out all the best combinations and feuds in like six months and get “teacher’s pet” stink all over them. We all know that if you aren't treated like a big deal fairly quickly as of late (with these past few NXT callups being a good example), you don't stand a chance of getting over. And for all the talk of "Paige floundering with the belt", she's still one of the biggest women's stars out there right now due to how she was treated upon callup. Way more than you can say for Xia Li, Aliyah, Shotzi, etc who feel either incredibly cold or are just outright losers. And that's the problem. WWE is incredibly fixated on the 4HW + Ronda + Bianca being the only stars that matter. Which means everyone else languishes. And in the case of Bianca, she's almost done everything she can do already in WWE. Another reign of terror only serves to hurt the division even further. Especially since no one gets over from working with Bianca. It also doesn't help that she has literally zero compelling title programs if she were to win the title again at Mania. Because whoops they've had her run over basically the entire RAW Women's Division. And while I'm sure people like Asuka and Lacey are set to return before too long, it's hard to take either of them as threats. Plus with Asuka in particular, her losing again would very likely start to piss people off even further, because she had an incredibly bad 2021 booking wise which made a lot of people incredibly upset.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Feb 21, 2022 8:32:16 GMT -5
It makes someone a big deal right away instead of having them flounder for months in the midcard. Look at Paige as a good example of this. She won the title on her first night as a main roster member and was set as a big star from that point forward. She floundered WITH the belt, though, because she was still fighting those same midcard people anyway. First actual major star she fights, in this case AJ Lee (the person she beat for the belt), she loses it straight back to her. You gotta strike a sweet spot between giving someone a strong enough push out of the gate that fans can tell they’re serious about it, but not so much so that you basically plonk them at the top at the beginning and burn out all the best combinations and feuds in like six months and get “teacher’s pet” stink all over them. Yeah, that's one of the big problems... it's one of the reasons Nikki ASH didn't work, it's why they had trouble doing anything with Rhea on the main roster... and countless other people. If you come in and win the title...there is literally no where to go but down.
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Post by mistery on Feb 21, 2022 8:38:19 GMT -5
She floundered WITH the belt, though, because she was still fighting those same midcard people anyway. First actual major star she fights, in this case AJ Lee (the person she beat for the belt), she loses it straight back to her. You gotta strike a sweet spot between giving someone a strong enough push out of the gate that fans can tell they’re serious about it, but not so much so that you basically plonk them at the top at the beginning and burn out all the best combinations and feuds in like six months and get “teacher’s pet” stink all over them. Yeah, that's one of the big problems... it's one of the reasons Nikki ASH didn't work, it's why they had trouble doing anything with Rhea on the main roster... and countless other people. If you come in and win the title...there is literally no where to go but down. The thing is that they rarely go straight to the title scene as it is. And in the case of Nikki ASH, its less her winning the title immediately that doomed her, and more along the lines that her gimmick was absolute rancid garbage with zero upside in any aspect. Also they had problems with Rhea because they couldn't decide on her alignment and then whoops Charlotte returned. That's ignoring Rhea chumping on Asuka, where a lot of fans were tired of Asuka being treated like a joke by that point (because she had been spending the past few months being jobbed out in stupid circumstances despite being champion). The problem with Bianca is really simple. She has literally zero credible women to face if she wins the title (or rather, anyone who fans could see taking the title off of her). Which means her reign is pretty much on life support from the start. The moment the "feel good" moment wears off is the moment her reign will have gone on for way too long. She's basically the women's version of Super Roman Reigns, and that's not a good thing. And the fact that the Saudi audience was already booing her somewhat when she won at the Chamber shows that there are incredibly rough seas ahead for her. Which could get even worse if they turn on her entirely.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2022 8:56:41 GMT -5
I love how people are just going "Throw Carmella in these matches"... You know what that tells me? It means you don't give a f*** about Carmella and you don't care if she loses clean. Straight-up disposable opponent. And I like Carmella.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 21, 2022 9:04:41 GMT -5
The way people complain about the Women’s division as they push more and more women makes it seem that the real complaint is that they’re not pushing the specific woman the fan likes most. It’s gone from they only care about the the 4HW, to only the 4HW and Bianca, to only the 4HW, Bianca, Ronda and Alexa, and soon we’ll add Rhea to that list too. But there will still be complaints that it’s not x, y or z.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 21, 2022 9:08:48 GMT -5
Yeah, that's one of the big problems... it's one of the reasons Nikki ASH didn't work, it's why they had trouble doing anything with Rhea on the main roster... and countless other people. If you come in and win the title...there is literally no where to go but down. The thing is that they rarely go straight to the title scene as it is. And in the case of Nikki ASH, its less her winning the title immediately that doomed her, and more along the lines that her gimmick was absolute rancid garbage with zero upside in any aspect. Also they had problems with Rhea because they couldn't decide on her alignment and then whoops Charlotte returned. That's ignoring Rhea chumping on Asuka, where a lot of fans were tired of Asuka being treated like a joke by that point (because she had been spending the past few months being jobbed out in stupid circumstances despite being champion). The problem with Bianca is really simple. She has literally zero credible women to face if she wins the title (or rather, anyone who fans could see taking the title off of her). Which means her reign is pretty much on life support from the start. The moment the "feel good" moment wears off is the moment her reign will have gone on for way too long. She's basically the women's version of Super Roman Reigns, and that's not a good thing. And the fact that the Saudi audience was already booing her somewhat when she won at the Chamber shows that there are incredibly rough seas ahead for her. Which could get even worse if they turn on her entirely. Bianca is mega over, I’ve seen little to no evidence of the crowd turning on her at all. And there are a bunch of credible challengers for Bianca if she wins at Mania between Raw, the injured list, NXT and then the draft when that happens. Rhea, Bliss, Asuka, Bayley, Shirai, Raquel just to name a few.
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Post by eJm on Feb 21, 2022 9:14:33 GMT -5
And there are a bunch of credible challengers for Bianca if she wins at Mania between Raw, the injured list, NXT and then the draft when that happens. Rhea, Bliss, Asuka, Bayley, Shirai, Raquel just to name a few. Again, look at the list of Paige’s first challengers (the one that was supposed to put her on a Star trajectory) and then look at this one. No disrespect to those women personally but the depth in quality might as well be the Grand Canyon.
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