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Post by eJm on Feb 26, 2022 7:08:54 GMT -5
I am an unreasonably big Sarray fan and think she’s the best women’s wrestler in the company, but I don’t think her losing is bad. It’s just the timing and place—so soon after her re debut on the b show to who she lost to. She doesn’t need to win every match and nobody does, but in whatever her story is supposed to be it happening so soon is dumb. That’s how I see it. If Sarray was in a feud and she lost and it lead to something down the line, cool, grand etc. But they spent some time re-debuting her in a new gimmick, she had a win on the main show but the next time she’s seen she loses on the D-show, the developmental to developmental, for no real contextual reason? Like, it sort of makes the whole change more confusing and comes off like you’ve already given up on it.
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Post by mistery on Feb 26, 2022 8:15:44 GMT -5
Doesn't really explain Sarray's weird booking though. Her losing on NXT's B-Show to Elektra is baffling, especially since Legado is borderline a jobber faction at this point. That's on top of the fact that Elektra herself is pretty cold in terms of audience reaction and overall fan interest. It's why I think Sarray might be in the next round of cuts. The fact that they are already having her take significant losses to low card talent with this new gimmick tells me that management has no interest in treating her seriously. Because if she is supposed to be a top talent or even remotely credible talent, she shouldn't be eating losses to women like Elektra. But its painfully obvious they are putting all of their chips on Cora Jade and other talent like Nikkita Lyons, Ivy Nile, etc. There really is no spot for Sarray in the new NXT at this point, and she would be better suited asking for her release and going back to Japan. Because again, WWE has absolutely zero interest in treating her like a big deal. And once Io and Dakota are gone, the NXT Women's division is going to have a very sharp decline in quality and overall watchablity if you have women like Sarray being used as enhancement talent. To be fair to them though all three of those girls you mentioned have a lot of upside too, probably more then Sarray imo. Sarray is a better worker then all of them but the other three are coming along quick and are also a lot less experienced too. Cora has a look and gimmick that has potential when it comes to appealing to young fans, Ivy has a cool look and in ring style and a unique charisma, Nikkita is also unique with her size and is already getting good reactions. Cora and Nikkita are also both super young at 21 and 22 respectively although looking it up Sarray is younger then I thought at only 25 which gives her an edge in that regard over Ivy who is 30 but was also a late starter as apposed to Sarray who started at only 15 meaning less wear and tear. Ivy and Nikkita also seem more over to me. It's not like the fans don't like Sarray but I don't really remember her being that over either while the crowd I've noticed is definitely into Ivy, always chanting for her. Regardless I do think she deserves much better booking. Especially since they currently have a heel champion who is in desperate need of credible face challengers. I would argue Sarray not getting over is mainly because she hasn't been given a chance to get over. Like...at all. Where Nikkita, Ivy, and others will get as many chances as WWE can give them. Every time Sarray gains even the slightest bit of momentum its immediately halted. It doesn't help that NXT 2.0 has brought out some...significantly more toxic fans as well. Ones who have no problem shaming others for how they look and how women like Sarray and Io should be cut because they "aren't attractive enough to be worth watching and both are overweight". WWE is insanely stupid with their handling of Sarray as well, because if she ends up going back to Japan unhappy, that will likely shut the door on them getting any Japanese talent again for a long time, if not permanently. While Sarray isn't a super mainstream wrestler over there, she is extremely well liked and well connected. Also like others have mentioned, they repackaged her and have seemingly given up on her already. There was literally zero reason for her to lose to Elektra in any shape or form right now. Especially since Legado as a group is...just not great. They haven't won an actual meaningful feud in months now. And Sarray's momentum being killed AGAIN shows they are intentionally sabotaging her at this point. It's little wonder you have women like Utami and other Japanese women taking pretty direct and (in terms of Japanese interviews really harsh) shots at AEW and ESPECIALLY WWE. Where Utami was asked if she would ever work for either of those two promotions if she was offered. And she flat out said no. Because she knows that Japanese talents in both promotions are treated like absolute jokes and said this was especially true in WWE where their ceiling is making WWE's "chosen ones" look good and then giving all of the credit to their chosen ones. She also alluded to Japanese talents being way more subject to xenophobia/racism in general from western fans.
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Post by AwamoriRock on Feb 26, 2022 8:38:09 GMT -5
To be fair to them though all three of those girls you mentioned have a lot of upside too, probably more then Sarray imo. Sarray is a better worker then all of them but the other three are coming along quick and are also a lot less experienced too. Cora has a look and gimmick that has potential when it comes to appealing to young fans, Ivy has a cool look and in ring style and a unique charisma, Nikkita is also unique with her size and is already getting good reactions. Cora and Nikkita are also both super young at 21 and 22 respectively although looking it up Sarray is younger then I thought at only 25 which gives her an edge in that regard over Ivy who is 30 but was also a late starter as apposed to Sarray who started at only 15 meaning less wear and tear. Ivy and Nikkita also seem more over to me. It's not like the fans don't like Sarray but I don't really remember her being that over either while the crowd I've noticed is definitely into Ivy, always chanting for her. Regardless I do think she deserves much better booking. Especially since they currently have a heel champion who is in desperate need of credible face challengers. I would argue Sarray not getting over is mainly because she hasn't been given a chance to get over. Like...at all. I don't wanna turn this into the fan bitching about Sarray thread and hope this doesn't come across homerish, but anyone who has followed her before WWE and knows why she's so highly regarded would say that's due to how she can pull off epic performances in long matches and tag matches. When they give her matches they are almost all in the five minute "get your moves in" range with no time to appeal beyond that, and then gaps in between. She can absolutely do clinics in short time, but if those short matches are only with rookies every three weeks and a hit five spots list and nothing more menu kinda thing I dunno how you expect her to get over. Still won't give up on her tho Sarray 4 lyfe
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2022 12:58:42 GMT -5
I'd love to know at what point in history someone taking literally any loss in WWE became "This company hates this talent and possibly their entire race", because it just makes booking this stuff entirely impossible to me. No matter who loses, someone's gonna arc up and be pissed off about it, and that's all the noise anyone hears. It's cause geeks don't like seeing their favorite wrestlers lose. The problem is, in WWE, they only want "the brand" to sell and not the talent as Vince is still deathly afraid of a wrestler getting so popular that they transcend his podunk and strike it big elsewhere, and one way to solve that problem is making sure you never have talent gain momentum. Today's social media being a presence where the loudest voices (Sometimes from very, very dumb people) are the most audible only help confirm to them that sticking to that belief is the right decision, even at the cost of their long-term future. That being said, even someone as jaded as you when it comes to seeing people complain about a person being "buried" has to at least see a few instances right now on the roster where a performer is clearly being punished for some reason (*cough*Nikki A.S.H.*cough*), where you have to at least warrant some kind of skeptism.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 26, 2022 22:49:18 GMT -5
I'd love to know at what point in history someone taking literally any loss in WWE became "This company hates this talent and possibly their entire race", because it just makes booking this stuff entirely impossible to me. No matter who loses, someone's gonna arc up and be pissed off about it, and that's all the noise anyone hears. It's cause geeks don't like seeing their favorite wrestlers lose. The problem is, in WWE, they only want "the brand" to sell and not the talent as Vince is still deathly afraid of a wrestler getting so popular that they transcend his podunk and strike it big elsewhere, and one way to solve that problem is making sure you never have talent gain momentum. Today's social media being a presence where the loudest voices (Sometimes from very, very dumb people) are the most audible only help confirm to them that sticking to that belief is the right decision, even at the cost of their long-term future. That being said, even someone as jaded as you when it comes to seeing people complain about a person being "buried" has to at least see a few instances right now on the roster where a performer is clearly being punished for some reason (*cough*Nikki A.S.H.*cough*), where you have to at least warrant some kind of skeptism. Of course there are examples, but the fact remains is that for someone to win, someone else has to lose. There is no scenario where every person in a match wins it and gets the benefits of said victory. Should some talents not be losing so much? Of course, but then you have to ask who they can beat that won't be hurt by it, but also give them some kind of tangible rub in beating them. I literally did this with Nikki A.S.H. the other day in the thread about her and it's like... There's nobody. Belair and Ripley are your top faces, they shouldn't be losing. Morgan has a very vocal fanbase that already think she's been losing too much for years. And Brooke has no rub to give because she's on the same level. The obvious solution is outside enhancement talents like the olden days, but as we're seeing with the disinterest towards AEW Dark, people don't really want to watch that, they want to see their favourites in matches with big stars and in feuds with actual stories and consequences.
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DDonaires
Trap-Jaw
Half-Kay: NXT podcast
Posts: 485
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Post by DDonaires on Feb 27, 2022 0:33:09 GMT -5
Does anyone watch the Hulu version? I was seeing some really bad production edits with some black screen interruptions during the Sarray/Elektra match
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knsffa
Team Rocket
Missed This Place and People
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Post by knsffa on Feb 28, 2022 12:04:55 GMT -5
I am an unreasonably big Sarray fan and think she’s the best women’s wrestler in the company, but I don’t think her losing is bad. It’s just the timing and place—so soon after her re debut on the b show to who she lost to. She doesn’t need to win every match and nobody does, but in whatever her story is supposed to be it happening so soon is dumb. That’s how I see it. If Sarray was in a feud and she lost and it lead to something down the line, cool, grand etc. But they spent some time re-debuting her in a new gimmick, she had a win on the main show but the next time she’s seen she loses on the D-show, the developmental to developmental, for no real contextual reason? Like, it sort of makes the whole change more confusing and comes off like you’ve already given up on it. If the point of Level Up is to actually 'level up' persons for something...the booking sends the message that Lopez has benefited while Sarray may as well think twice about the power of granny's magic amulet. If she believes it can make her do anything, she must have thought she should lose. Maybe granny is an Elektra Lopez fan? Perhaps Level Up is the name only. If so the wins or loses don't matter. Still silly to have Sarray take the loss so soon when there are others there Lopez could have beat that won't win anyway.
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knsffa
Team Rocket
Missed This Place and People
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Post by knsffa on Feb 28, 2022 14:03:16 GMT -5
How they look? Kai and Sarray look bad? That's news to me. Yeah. While I can't say it with 100% certainty, Kai and especially Sarray feel like they are being punished for not being "attractive" enough for NXT 2.0. It was hammered into me at other places that NXT 2.0 only exists to prepare people's gimmicks for the main roster and not to give black & gold era folks any importance and spotlight. Although somewhat true it's not completely as in order to build new stars they have to keep tenured members of the roster credible enough to put over the aspiring and established new names when the time is right. There has been something slow burning with Kai for months that I assume pays off soon...if it actually benefits her to eventually benefit someone else in NXT 2.0 remains to be seen. A lot of people assume she's just there to fill television time until the post Mania call-up. Lopez is popular for reasons, however a lot of those fans seem to have switched to the Nikkita Lyons bandwagon. Sarray has her fans but it's hard to tell if she has any future in the revamped NXT. If the Kai and Wendy Choo team is going to be a longer term thing, might as well add Sarray and make it a trio of oddballs and misfits. Personally, I keep tabs on 2.0 for various people, the overall thing just doesn't click for me. I still care about the tenured names and hope they can have some success, be it for themselves and/or to eventually benefit others. Not sure those who invest fully care for most Black & Gold era talent since they see them as part of the reason they hated NXT for years.
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