|
|
Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Mar 1, 2022 2:11:31 GMT -5
I've always been curious though. Based on their work over in Japan, should guys like TAKA and KENTA been booked as a bigger deal here in WWE? Foley said that on talent alone Taka should've been the World Champ This quote is missing a lot of context though. He also stated that Undertaker got a better reaction with his Tope Con Hilo once a year than Taka got doing it every night. The whole point was that the main eventers of the Attitude Era had more than enough charisma and marketability to make up what Taka had over them in raw talent and athleticism. Though certainly, TAKA could have certainly been booked better than he was, as he had people biting on those false finishes in his one-off title match with Triple H with no build up or established character. Hell, him and Funaki even made the racist Godzilla-style voice overs work for a gimmick. |
|
|
|
Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Mar 1, 2022 4:08:42 GMT -5
Has anyone said racism yet?
Because it's institutional racism. That's the answer.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2022 5:53:14 GMT -5
IMO Kaentai is the most racist gimmick the WWE has done. Cryme Tyme and Los Guerreros were equally insulting stereotypes but put forward with the intention to push and get over the stars. Kaentai was mocking their ethnicity to bury them. Only Mexicools comes close but from memory that was a self aware parody.
Nakamura is an odd one. Of course they had main event hopes by giving him the rumble win (this was when HHH's influence was at its peak) I think Vince's fear of ESL promos (he couldn't get behind Rusev, Cesaro or Andrade who all speak English much better than Nakamura, Del Rio appears to be an exception) and Nakamura showing during the Corbin and Jinder feuds he half arses it when his opponent isn't on his level.
|
|
msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,447
|
Post by msc on Mar 1, 2022 6:01:14 GMT -5
Has anyone said racism yet? Because it's institutional racism. That's the answer. That was going to be my answer! But yeah, it's pretty much this. Going back decades now. |
|
Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone.
Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,529
Member is Online
|
Post by Bo Rida on Mar 1, 2022 8:30:05 GMT -5
Still blows my mind that they were seriously trying to build an NXT Japan brand off of NOAH/AJPW/whatever down nane fed they could find that they could buy. Imagine if they'd bought Noah, it would be full of nonsensical finishes and old guys winning major titles. Oh. |
|
|
|
Post by eJm on Mar 1, 2022 8:32:43 GMT -5
Still blows my mind that they were seriously trying to build an NXT Japan brand off of NOAH/AJPW/whatever down nane fed they could find that they could buy. Imagine if they'd bought Noah, it would be full of nonsensical finishes and old guys winning major titles. Oh. Yeah, that would be....weird. Man, NOAH's history since the New Japan partnership is just that isn't it? |
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Mar 1, 2022 9:08:03 GMT -5
Has anyone said racism yet? Because it's institutional racism. That's the answer. That's probably kind of it at this point. It's not any kind of overt bigotry (I suppose it's possible it is, but I don't know any of the backstage people personally so I won't venture a guess), it's that general sense of "They're good, but that's not what a top wrestler looks/speaks/wrestles/etc. like." If someone said that you'd ask what they mean when they say it, and their response would probably be something all indirect like "Y'know, just...not like that." And like, there's this small degree to which it can be understood; when you're a company based out of whatever region/country/etc., odds are good you're going to book the top of your card around wrestlers who you feel appeal most and have the most direct connection to your primary audience. It's why Japanese promotions book Japanese wrestlers as their top acts the vast majority of the time; like, of all the Tokyo Dome shows since 1989, between all the major Japanese wrestling companies you can only count the number of gaijin who've main evented on two hands. But that's something you have to challenge once you have the desire to be a global brand. Like, in the case of NJPW since 2016 they've had a Canadian, a Kiwi, and a Brit all get into the main event of a Wrestle Kingdom card, whereas before the first Omega/Okada match the last gaijin to main event in the dome was Brock Lesnar, in the pre-Wrestle Kingdom days. WWE obviously sees itself as a global brand, and it certainly is on that scale and size, but it's hard to look at the way they've booked Asuka and Nakamura and not see there being a kind of glass ceiling in place. As said before those two have been given a lot of accolades, certainly, but it's obvious they don't see them as people they want to push to the top, and it's tough to figure out why after awhile, leaving "Y'know, just...not like that" as a pretty likely reason. |
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on Mar 1, 2022 10:13:45 GMT -5
Ceiling is an argument perhaps. But to act like Nakamura and Asuka have been shafted seems over-the-top. They’re both putting in hall of fame level careers and are typically featured weekly.
|
|
Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,494
|
Post by Ben Wyatt on Mar 1, 2022 10:23:33 GMT -5
I agree with the general premise here, but putting Asuka/Shinsuke on the list is a stretch.
Could they each have been booked better at times, Yes. No argument whatsoever. But for better or worse, their resumes are something most people in the business would take in a second
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2022 10:24:33 GMT -5
"I'm going to tell you something right now that you will absolutely not agree with, but I've been a wrestling fan my whole life and I will live and die by this. It's hard enough, believe me, I write this shit, It is hard enough to get somebody over. You will never, ever, ever, ever, ever see the Japanese wrestlers or the Mexican wrestlers over in American mainstream wrestling. And the simple reason for that is, even myself, I'm an American and I don't want to sound like a big bigot, or racist or anything like that, but I'm an American. If I'm watching wrestling here in American, I don't give a shit about a Japanese guy. I don't give a shit about a Mexican guy. I'm from America and that's what I want to see."
-Vince Russo, Former WWF, WCW and TNA Writer, Racist
|
|
|
|
Post by mistery on Mar 1, 2022 10:44:07 GMT -5
Ceiling is an argument perhaps. But to act like Nakamura and Asuka have been shafted seems over-the-top. They’re both putting in hall of fame level careers and are typically featured weekly. If they are so highly valued, then why can't creative find something for Asuka to do right now? She is medically cleared apparently and as it stands right now, the Wrestlemania card is shaping up to be the worst of all time. Its because they don't care about her. WWE apparently needs an army of part timers and celebrities on the card but god forbid they figure out something for Asuka. Stop defending WWE and their godawful booking/creative. WWE's priorities should be finding something for their full time stars to do over celebrities. Hell, here is an idea that could easily be done but WWE won't do it. Have Beth turn heel and have someone like Asuka face her at Mania and win! Dang that took me like 15 seconds to think up! But nope. Because WWE has issues with giving Japanese talent any sort of REAL spotlight. And always will as long as Bruce and Johnny are around. WWE markets itself as a global brand, but they are anything but that. |
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on Mar 1, 2022 10:46:11 GMT -5
Ceiling is an argument perhaps. But to act like Nakamura and Asuka have been shafted seems over-the-top. They’re both putting in hall of fame level careers and are typically featured weekly. If they are so highly valued, then why can't creative find something for Asuka to do right now? She is medically cleared apparently and as it stands right now, the Wrestlemania card is shaping up to be the worst of all time. Its because they don't care about her. WWE apparently needs an army of part timers and celebrities on the card but god forbid they figure out something for Asuka. Stop defending WWE and their godawful booking/creative. WWE's priorities should be finding something for their full time stars to do over celebrities. Hell, here is an idea that could easily be done but WWE won't do it. Have Beth turn heel and have someone like Asuka face her at Mania and win! Dang that took me like 15 seconds to think up! But nope. Because WWE has issues with giving Japanese talent any sort of REAL spotlight. And always will as long as Bruce and Johnny are around. WWE markets itself as a global brand, but they are anything but that. SRS Fightful shot down PWInsider’s report that Asuka is cleared and creative has nothing for her, last I heard. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2022 12:19:38 GMT -5
I mean the current ones are because... like literally no one is booked well. I've always been curious though. Based on their work over in Japan, should guys like TAKA and KENTA been booked as a bigger deal here in WWE? Back in the day, not really because everyone wasn't a tape trader. Nowadays with literally every wrestling fan having access to Japanese stuff? Absolutely. But WWE f***ing sucks. |
|
|
|
Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Mar 1, 2022 12:36:02 GMT -5
Has anyone said racism yet? Because it's institutional racism. That's the answer. Seriously, Shinsuke alone should be a 2 or 3 time world champ at this point |
|
Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,685
|
Post by Nosnorb on Mar 1, 2022 13:06:50 GMT -5
Has anyone said racism yet? Because it's institutional racism. That's the answer. Seriously, Shinsuke alone should be a 2 or 3 time world champ at this point Having him fail to get the job done in 6 WWE Title matches is an absolute travesty, and makes a mockery of the claim that he has been booked well. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2022 13:11:12 GMT -5
Who besides the straight white man has been consistently booked great in this company's history?
Even women as a whole only started to be booked well 6 years ago. Everybody else other than straight white guys has either had trash or inconsistent booking, Japanese stars included.
|
|
|
|
Post by eJm on Mar 1, 2022 13:15:25 GMT -5
Who besides the straight white man has been consistently booked great in this company's history? Even women as a whole only started to be booked well 6 years ago. Everybody else other than straight white guys has either had trash or inconsistent booking, Japanese stars included. It’s still humorous that their idea for the women when the “Evolution” kicked off was basically the same idea Vince Russo had for factions. “You white girls are in one faction, you mixed and black girls are in another and The Bellas get Alicia Fox because…Total Divas?” |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2022 13:20:34 GMT -5
Who besides the straight white man has been consistently booked great in this company's history? Even women as a whole only started to be booked well 6 years ago. Everybody else other than straight white guys has either had trash or inconsistent booking, Japanese stars included. It’s still humorous that their idea for the women when the “Evolution” kicked off was basically the same idea Vince Russo had for factions. “You white girls are in one faction, you mixed and black girls are in another and The Bellas get Alicia Fox because…Total Divas?” It was so "early 00s teen comedy flick but the teens don't all become friends at the end" level that it was hard to take seriously. I mean yeah, they tried but that overshadowed how great they were in the ring. Then afterwards they starts to do a lot of "first times" for the women and I wish it was better because from what I remember they focused more on the fact that it was the first rather than the actual quality. The women deserved to have those matches and feuds mean more but you've got it overshadowed by dumb booking like Ric Flair kissing Becky and crap like that. It was wild. I don't know what they were thinking. Also when we say "women's revolution/evolution" we shouldn't be imagining Stephanie McMahon holding a mic in her hand debuting it but that's what we imagine. That pisses me off to this day. Stephanie being thrown into that as if she ushered that whole thing is crazy. |
|
|
|
Post by eJm on Mar 1, 2022 13:27:14 GMT -5
Also when we say "women's revolution/evolution" we shouldn't be imagining Stephanie McMahon holding a mic in her hand debuting it but that's what we imagine. That pisses me off to this day. Stephanie being thrown into that as if she ushered that whole thing is crazy. Like, even by WWE's own standards, that was basically the laziest sets of debuts at the very least in the modern era. Potential for worst ever in terms of just half-assing all of that. It'd be like if Big E, Seth Rollins and Adrian Neville didn't debut as they did but as tag partners in a three-way tag for the tag titles for, like, Miz, Cody Rhodes and Santino Marella or some other midcard combination. It just makes you right away ignore what they did in NXT at that time. |
|
|
|
Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Mar 1, 2022 13:50:36 GMT -5
Who besides the straight white man has been consistently booked great in this company's history? Even women as a whole only started to be booked well 6 years ago. Everybody else other than straight white guys has either had trash or inconsistent booking, Japanese stars included. It’s still humorous that their idea for the women when the “Evolution” kicked off was basically the same idea Vince Russo had for factions. “You white girls are in one faction, you mixed and black girls are in another and The Bellas get Alicia Fox because…Total Divas?”That is egregious as it is, but normally that decision isn't made in front of the audience like it was here with Stephanie treating the callups like they were toys. |
|
