Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Mar 1, 2022 15:45:42 GMT -5
Who besides the straight white man has been consistently booked great in this company's history? The Anoa'i family. Some questionable presentation admitedly but for their time most were booked pretty well or at least with good intentions. Rock and Roman have had some of the biggest pushes in company history. (There's arguments about Filipino, Hispanic and Jewish wrestlers. Indian too) Honestly I think it comes down to WWE valueing mic skills more than most companies. Even the higher tier Japanese talent would struggle with their awful 20 minute scripted promos. The buzzword ridden nonsense often sound ridiculous to native English speakers. Although I suppose it doesn't stop the likes of Rey, Jeff or RVD.
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nate5054
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Post by nate5054 on Mar 1, 2022 16:02:25 GMT -5
They can't all have great gimmicks like Kung Fu Naki.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2022 16:15:55 GMT -5
Who besides the straight white man has been consistently booked great in this company's history? The Anoa'i family. Some questionable presentation admitedly but for their time most were booked pretty well or at least with good intentions. Rock and Roman have had some of the biggest pushes in company history. (There's arguments about Filipino, Hispanic and Jewish wrestlers. Indian too) Honestly I think it comes down to WWE valueing mic skills more than most companies. Even the higher tier Japanese talent would struggle with their awful 20 minute scripted promos. The buzzword ridden nonsense often sound ridiculous to native English speakers. Although I suppose it doesn't stop the likes of Rey, Jeff or RVD. Nah they don't really fit the bill. Rock's the only one booked well. For the others, Roman wins matches but his booking isn't good and as for the other members of the family, we have people calling the Usos bitches everytime they have a match. It's just not consistent. They either lose all the time or when they win the booking's bad because they don't have any credible opponents or their feuds are terrible.
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Post by eJm on Mar 1, 2022 16:17:50 GMT -5
The Anoa'i family. Some questionable presentation admitedly but for their time most were booked pretty well or at least with good intentions. Rock and Roman have had some of the biggest pushes in company history. (There's arguments about Filipino, Hispanic and Jewish wrestlers. Indian too) Honestly I think it comes down to WWE valueing mic skills more than most companies. Even the higher tier Japanese talent would struggle with their awful 20 minute scripted promos. The buzzword ridden nonsense often sound ridiculous to native English speakers. Although I suppose it doesn't stop the likes of Rey, Jeff or RVD. Nah they don't really fit the bill. Rock's the only one booked well. For the others, Roman wins matches but his booking isn't good and as for the other members of the family, we have people calling the Usos bitches everytime they have a match. It's just not consistent. They either lose all the time or when they win the booking's bad because they don't have any credible opponents or their feuds are terrible. And also...for all the good booking they had, you could only name barely over a handful that weren't savages or had savage-like tendencies. It's Rock, the Usos, Roman, Samu, Sim, Tamina, Pre-Umaga Jamal and that's literally it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2022 16:30:12 GMT -5
Nah they don't really fit the bill. Rock's the only one booked well. For the others, Roman wins matches but his booking isn't good and as for the other members of the family, we have people calling the Usos bitches everytime they have a match. It's just not consistent. They either lose all the time or when they win the booking's bad because they don't have any credible opponents or their feuds are terrible. And also...for all the good booking they had, you could only name barely over a handful that weren't savages or had savage-like tendencies. It's Rock, the Usos, Roman, Samu, Sim, Pre-Umaga Jamal and that's literally it. Even that Usos Tamina debut promo had them talking about how they're not like other Samoans and how they dressed good and whatnot. The fact they even threw that in a promo let's you know it was a bad thing that they thankfully don't do like they used to.
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06vwgti
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Post by 06vwgti on Mar 1, 2022 16:32:43 GMT -5
Nah they don't really fit the bill. Rock's the only one booked well. For the others, Roman wins matches but his booking isn't good and as for the other members of the family, we have people calling the Usos bitches everytime they have a match. It's just not consistent. They either lose all the time or when they win the booking's bad because they don't have any credible opponents or their feuds are terrible. And also...for all the good booking they had, you could only name barely over a handful that weren't savages or had savage-like tendencies. It's Rock, the Usos, Roman, Samu, Sim, Tamina, Pre-Umaga Jamal and that's literally it. Rosey when he was with hurricane. I didn't realize he was part of the anoai family. I wasn't watching when he teamed with Jamal
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Post by eJm on Mar 1, 2022 16:34:40 GMT -5
And also...for all the good booking they had, you could only name barely over a handful that weren't savages or had savage-like tendencies. It's Rock, the Usos, Roman, Samu, Sim, Tamina, Pre-Umaga Jamal and that's literally it. Rosey when he was with hurricane. I didn't realize he was part of the anoai family. I wasn't watching when he teamed with Jamal He was Roman's brother. And at least people have corrected me which I'm happy with considering.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Mar 1, 2022 16:44:29 GMT -5
Ceiling is an argument perhaps. But to act like Nakamura and Asuka have been shafted seems over-the-top. They’re both putting in hall of fame level careers and are typically featured weekly. If they are so highly valued, then why can't creative find something for Asuka to do right now? She is medically cleared apparently and as it stands right now, the Wrestlemania card is shaping up to be the worst of all time. Its because they don't care about her. WWE apparently needs an army of part timers and celebrities on the card but god forbid they figure out something for Asuka. Stop defending WWE and their godawful booking/creative. WWE's priorities should be finding something for their full time stars to do over celebrities. Hell, here is an idea that could easily be done but WWE won't do it. Have Beth turn heel and have someone like Asuka face her at Mania and win! Dang that took me like 15 seconds to think up! But nope. Because WWE has issues with giving Japanese talent any sort of REAL spotlight. And always will as long as Bruce and Johnny are around. WWE markets itself as a global brand, but they are anything but that. Maybe it's just both the Wrestlemania title matches are locked and there isn't any other spot for her other then getting thrown in some cluster f**k match like a battle royal or a multi team match for the useless tag titles. There's only so many matches they can book so they aren't going to do some non title women's match like that Asuka/Beth match you proposed. They just don't do stuff like that for the women for Mania. It's either you are in one of the title matches or the battle royal if they have one. Maybe they value Asuka too much to have her come back be throwing her some useless match and think it would be better to wait until after Mania when the reset button gets hit and she can slide into a better role. Last time I checked Rhea Ripley isn't scheduled for anything at Wrestlemania either and unlike Asuka she's currently active. I know you are always up in arms about the booking of the Japanese talent and some it's justified but some like Asuka, Io, and Nakamura it pulls no weight. They've all been given A LOT. Asuka was undefeated for a year and a half and is one of few to win all three singles titles. Io had a long NXT title reign and is arguably the most protected woman across all the shows. Could they be used better at times? Sure but you can say that about pretty much every one on the roster not named Roman or Charlotte at one point or another. Have they ever been THE GIRL? I guess you could argue they both were on NXT at different points. Asuka definitely was once she won the title. Asuka never has on the main roster but again only one person can have that spot. Ok she's never been given as much love as Charlotte or Becky or Ronda when they've been on top but no one else has either. She's still been someone who always has something to do and has a title more often then not. Still a very good career that most other talents would envy. Yet you act like she's had a career like Dana Brooke or something.
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06vwgti
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Post by 06vwgti on Mar 1, 2022 18:06:40 GMT -5
Rosey when he was with hurricane. I didn't realize he was part of the anoai family. I wasn't watching when he teamed with Jamal He was Roman's brother. And at least people have corrected me which I'm happy with considering. I know, but like I said back in 2003ish, I didn't know he was part of the Anoa'is
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Post by stoptheclocks on Mar 1, 2022 20:07:31 GMT -5
The Anoa'i family. Some questionable presentation admitedly but for their time most were booked pretty well or at least with good intentions. Rock and Roman have had some of the biggest pushes in company history. (There's arguments about Filipino, Hispanic and Jewish wrestlers. Indian too) Honestly I think it comes down to WWE valueing mic skills more than most companies. Even the higher tier Japanese talent would struggle with their awful 20 minute scripted promos. The buzzword ridden nonsense often sound ridiculous to native English speakers. Although I suppose it doesn't stop the likes of Rey, Jeff or RVD. Nah they don't really fit the bill. Rock's the only one booked well. For the others, Roman wins matches but his booking isn't good and as for the other members of the family, we have people calling the Usos bitches everytime they have a match. It's just not consistent. They either lose all the time or when they win the booking's bad because they don't have any credible opponents or their feuds are terrible. Sorry, what? Roman 'isn't booked good' intentionally by the WWE because they're racist? If he was white they'd book him better than winning every single week for years? It's stretching credibility to argue that Asuka has been treated badly in WWE, but if we're now holding up Roman Reigns and The Usos as an example for this... I give up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2022 20:23:56 GMT -5
Nah they don't really fit the bill. Rock's the only one booked well. For the others, Roman wins matches but his booking isn't good and as for the other members of the family, we have people calling the Usos bitches everytime they have a match. It's just not consistent. They either lose all the time or when they win the booking's bad because they don't have any credible opponents or their feuds are terrible. Sorry, what?
Roman 'isn't booked good' intentionally by the WWE because they're racist? If he was white they'd book him better than winning every single week for years? It's stretching credibility to argue that Asuka has been treated badly in WWE, but if we're now holding up Roman Reigns and The Usos as an example for this... I give up. Who said this? Where did that come from? If you took that from my post then you're looking at things completely the wrong way. Nowhere did I say that or hint that. I said Roman isn't booked good but in regards to that that doesn't mean "hey Roman's booked bad and it's due to the fact he's not a straight white guy." If he was white he'd be booked bad too right now. We had numerous straight white wrestlers on the roster with bad booking but that doesn't take away my initial point of straight white wrestlers being the majority of wrestlers who are booked well and that's because they've been the majority of this company's roster since it was formed.
Reigns and The Usos are booked bad because "good booking" doesn't mean "this person wins all the time and is in segments all the time." Good booking has character development, wins and losses, credible opponents, actual stakes and not doing the same thing repeatedly week in and week out. It also means uplifting your opponents and bringing creativity and freshness into the space they alter which is exactly what Reigns and the Usos don't do now. They're not booked well.
Like, if anyone thinks "good booking" means "this person wins all the time" then they don't know what good booking is. Triple H was winning a lot during his Reign of Terror but nobody said that was good booking.
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Post by noobeast on Mar 1, 2022 21:22:38 GMT -5
For the same reason that EVERYONE has been booked so poorly: This company SUUUUUUUUCKS.
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Post by stoptheclocks on Mar 2, 2022 3:28:25 GMT -5
Sorry, what?
Roman 'isn't booked good' intentionally by the WWE because they're racist? If he was white they'd book him better than winning every single week for years? It's stretching credibility to argue that Asuka has been treated badly in WWE, but if we're now holding up Roman Reigns and The Usos as an example for this... I give up. Who said this? Where did that come from? If you took that from my post then you're looking at things completely the wrong way. Nowhere did I say that or hint that. I said Roman isn't booked good but in regards to that that doesn't mean "hey Roman's booked bad and it's due to the fact he's not a straight white guy." If he was white he'd be booked bad too right now. We had numerous straight white wrestlers on the roster with bad booking but that doesn't take away my initial point of straight white wrestlers being the majority of wrestlers who are booked well and that's because they've been the majority of this company's roster since it was formed.
Reigns and The Usos are booked bad because "good booking" doesn't mean "this person wins all the time and is in segments all the time." Good booking has character development, wins and losses, credible opponents, actual stakes and not doing the same thing repeatedly week in and week out. It also means uplifting your opponents and bringing creativity and freshness into the space they alter which is exactly what Reigns and the Usos don't do now. They're not booked well.
Like, if anyone thinks "good booking" means "this person wins all the time" then they don't know what good booking is. Triple H was winning a lot during his Reign of Terror but nobody said that was good booking.
When you said 'Who besides the straight white man has been consistently booked great in this company's history?' - there's quite an obvious inference that this is down to concious or subconcious racism on the part of the people booking the shows. Not that it's just a side effect of straight white men being the majority of the roster. Where this thread had ended up was asking whether there was a glass ceiling for Japanese wrestlers due to the fact they are Japanese. In this context 'good booking' can only mean 'pushed heavily and winning a lot' otherwise it becomes completely subjective. WWE clearly aren't intending to book Roman Reigns poorly, their intentions are to book him as the greatest of all time. If that was the case with a Japanese wrestler, then this thread wouldn't exist.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Mar 2, 2022 7:53:03 GMT -5
Same reason Andrade was booked poorly on the main roster. If you don't speak fluent English Vince doesn't think you cam connect with the crowd
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2022 12:07:51 GMT -5
Who said this? Where did that come from? If you took that from my post then you're looking at things completely the wrong way. Nowhere did I say that or hint that. I said Roman isn't booked good but in regards to that that doesn't mean "hey Roman's booked bad and it's due to the fact he's not a straight white guy." If he was white he'd be booked bad too right now. We had numerous straight white wrestlers on the roster with bad booking but that doesn't take away my initial point of straight white wrestlers being the majority of wrestlers who are booked well and that's because they've been the majority of this company's roster since it was formed.
Reigns and The Usos are booked bad because "good booking" doesn't mean "this person wins all the time and is in segments all the time." Good booking has character development, wins and losses, credible opponents, actual stakes and not doing the same thing repeatedly week in and week out. It also means uplifting your opponents and bringing creativity and freshness into the space they alter which is exactly what Reigns and the Usos don't do now. They're not booked well.
Like, if anyone thinks "good booking" means "this person wins all the time" then they don't know what good booking is. Triple H was winning a lot during his Reign of Terror but nobody said that was good booking.
When you said 'Who besides the straight white man has been consistently booked great in this company's history?' - there's quite an obvious inference that this is down to concious or subconcious racism on the part of the people booking the shows. Not that it's just a side effect of straight white men being the majority of the roster. Where this thread had ended up was asking whether there was a glass ceiling for Japanese wrestlers due to the fact they are Japanese. In this context 'good booking' can only mean 'pushed heavily and winning a lot' otherwise it becomes completely subjective. WWE clearly aren't intending to book Roman Reigns poorly, their intentions are to book him as the greatest of all time. If that was the case with a Japanese wrestler, then this thread wouldn't exist. The fact that most of the roster was straight white men back in the day goes hand to hand with racism as it does in most cases elsewhere as the less people you have from other races, cultures and etc allows less understanding of said people and a lack of pushes to said people due to a numbers situation. It doesn't mean thats purely due to racism, it means there's more room for entry. If 90% of a neighborhood is one race and the whole neighborhood runs to the store to get a special toy chances are more of the 90% will get it compared to the 10% from a numbers perspective. If there were more black, Asian, LBGTQ wrestlers and etc on the roster they'd be booked better because, again, the more you have the better your chances are and the better those in a booking perspective can see and learn about you and your people. The less people you have then the less understanding, more racism and etc. Basically, when I made that comment I was saying that straight white men are booked better than all the others because they're the majority, Vince is a straight white man and that's been in this company's DNA from the start. That doesn't mean they can't be booked bad because a massive amount are booked bad, that means it started with them. It also doesn't mean others can't be booked good, because they can. Good booking doesn't mean winning and winning a lot and yes it's subjective because this is a forum. We've said Roman has had horrible booking for years and he's always winning, we've said Charlotte has bad booking and she always wins, we've said a plethora of wrestlers fall in line here. In this case with Japanese wrestlers the OP specifically used Asuka as a reference and she's not only won the big title, she's beaten The Man Becky clean and she's even won tag titles. What makes Asuka's booking bad is lack of consistency. It's not due to the fact that she hasn't "won the big one" because she has, it's due to the fact that she isn't consistent. WWE doesn't intend on booking most of its talent bad. It just happens because they're bad at booking and this includes current Reigns, Charlotte, Asuka, other Japanese stars and etc. It's not "hey this person is Japanese so we don't wanna push em to the top" because they did it with Asuka. It's "hey we like this person more so we'll book them better than this Japanese superstar" and it's that way due to everything I stated in the first paragraph. Vince doesn't understand Japanese people and their culture. At all. Sure he might let one win a title but that isn't going to be the same as a white man winning it because he gets white guys more. If there was a Japanese wrestler booked like Reigns we'd still be having this thread because Reigns has bad booking. We literally have a thread on how bad his booking is weekly and that's because most of us don't think "hey this person's always winning so that means he's booked well."
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Mar 2, 2022 12:27:15 GMT -5
Asuka always had title wins bt wa salways treated as second fiddle and personal jobber when she was always either the most over or second over behind beck.
she won a title , disappeared or did nothing for months,lost to Charlotte and repeat when she was always more over than any of the women she was always used to put over.
Yeh she was booked awfully.
Look ar all the feuds that put Becky,Charlotte ,Ronda,Alexa and more as the centerpiece ,did Asuka ever get any of that? No ,she never had any story for her.
Oh sorry she had the rumble win ,which was completely taken over by Ronda debuting and disappearing for months
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Mar 2, 2022 12:44:18 GMT -5
Because Vince has a certain notion of what a star looks like and what a star sounds like, and nobody who fits Vince's notion of what a star looks and sounds like is willing to make the jump from japan because they've seen the way he's treated Japanese talent who don't fit his notion of a superstar for the past 40 years. If you're a top star in Japan, earning big money, you just aren't going to roll the dice on being the first guy to be treated right.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Mar 2, 2022 14:06:34 GMT -5
Nah they don't really fit the bill. Rock's the only one booked well. For the others, Roman wins matches but his booking isn't good and as for the other members of the family, we have people calling the Usos bitches everytime they have a match. It's just not consistent. They either lose all the time or when they win the booking's bad because they don't have any credible opponents or their feuds are terrible. And also...for all the good booking they had, you could only name barely over a handful that weren't savages or had savage-like tendencies. It's Rock, the Usos, Roman, Samu, Sim, Tamina, Pre-Umaga Jamal and that's literally it. Yokozuna, because, ironically for this thread he was playing with Japanese stereotypes!
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Post by eJm on Mar 2, 2022 14:10:35 GMT -5
And also...for all the good booking they had, you could only name barely over a handful that weren't savages or had savage-like tendencies. It's Rock, the Usos, Roman, Samu, Sim, Tamina, Pre-Umaga Jamal and that's literally it. Yokozuna, because, ironically for this thread he was playing with Japanese stereotypes! I’ll put him 50/50 for that very reason haha.
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mistery
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Post by mistery on Mar 2, 2022 14:12:23 GMT -5
Because Vince has a certain notion of what a star looks like and what a star sounds like, and nobody who fits Vince's notion of what a star looks and sounds like is willing to make the jump from japan because they've seen the way he's treated Japanese talent who don't fit his notion of a superstar for the past 40 years. If you're a top star in Japan, earning big money, you just aren't going to roll the dice on being the first guy to be treated right. Its funny because SRS mentioned in his Q&A a month or two ago that WWE was trying to get a "certain top level Stardom name" to sign apparently. It's not Utami (at the very least), who has been openly and extremely hostile towards both AEW and WWE, saying neither treat Japanese stars right, and that's why she has said that the west is significantly behind the times when it comes to women's wrestling compared to Japan.
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