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Post by mistery on Mar 18, 2022 8:24:28 GMT -5
People on here keep talking like it’s a fact Bianca is going to start getting booed because she wins a lot. But she’s just super popular right now and there’s no sign of any backlash against her. They definitely can use more depth in the women’s divisions, but I definitely disagree with the notion there’s not enough challengers for Bianca post-Mania (if she wins). Becky obviously will get some kind of gimmick rematch. Rhea has been built up a lot and that can be a multi-month feud. I can see a one-off with Alexa at a PPV. Then there’s 3 women returning soon in Asuka, Bayley and Lacey. And then post-Mania callups such as Raquel and Io are likely. Eventually there will be the draft too. You didn't watch Elimination Chamber, did you? A crowd that should have been overwhelmingly friendly towards Bianca booed her when she pinned Rhea and Alexa. And it's only going to get worse once she starts running over other well liked names. As for Becky being booed, it's obvious she's cooled off massively since then. She hasn't been even remotely as over as she was during her pre-pregnancy run. This is why I am absolutely against Bianca having a long run with the title or her superhuman level booking. Because as long as she is around, no other woman is truly going to get a chance to shine or be the centerpiece of the division. Because WWE absolutely does not care about any (non-4hw) woman not involved in the title scene. And that's a fact at this point. They don't get secondary feuds that mean anything, and get almost no screentime outside of being fed to Bianca, Becky, or Charlotte at this point. Yes the tag titles exist but they really shouldn't. It would be better to just get rid of them and give RAW and Smackdown a secondary title each for the women, so more can get on the show at this point. |
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Post by eJm on Mar 18, 2022 8:26:32 GMT -5
People on here keep talking like it’s a fact Bianca is going to start getting booed because she wins a lot. But she’s just super popular right now and there’s no sign of any backlash against her. They definitely can use more depth in the women’s divisions, but I definitely disagree with the notion there’s not enough challengers for Bianca post-Mania (if she wins). Becky obviously will get some kind of gimmick rematch. Rhea has been built up a lot and that can be a multi-month feud. I can see a one-off with Alexa at a PPV. Then there’s 3 women returning soon in Asuka, Bayley and Lacey. And then post-Mania callups such as Raquel and Io are likely. Eventually there will be the draft too. You didn't watch Elimination Chamber, did you? A crowd that should have been overwhelmingly friendly towards Bianca booed her when she pinned Rhea and Alexa. And it's only going to get worse once she starts running over other well liked names. Considering how crowds have been before and since, it really does seem like the Saudi crowd is an outlier on these things in the same way, like, the Conneticuit crowd was for AEW compared to what happens mostly everywhere else. Like, there isn't really a reason for me to think that particular crowd was going to get a better reaction to her than others. |
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Post by polarbearpete on Mar 18, 2022 8:35:07 GMT -5
People on here keep talking like it’s a fact Bianca is going to start getting booed because she wins a lot. But she’s just super popular right now and there’s no sign of any backlash against her. They definitely can use more depth in the women’s divisions, but I definitely disagree with the notion there’s not enough challengers for Bianca post-Mania (if she wins). Becky obviously will get some kind of gimmick rematch. Rhea has been built up a lot and that can be a multi-month feud. I can see a one-off with Alexa at a PPV. Then there’s 3 women returning soon in Asuka, Bayley and Lacey. And then post-Mania callups such as Raquel and Io are likely. Eventually there will be the draft too. You didn't watch Elimination Chamber, did you? A crowd that should have been overwhelmingly friendly towards Bianca booed her when she pinned Rhea and Alexa. And it's only going to get worse once she starts running over other well liked names. As for Becky being booed, it's obvious she's cooled off massively since then. She hasn't been even remotely as over as she was during her pre-pregnancy run. This is why I am absolutely against Bianca having a long run with the title or her superhuman level booking. Because as long as she is around, no other woman is truly going to get a chance to shine or be the centerpiece of the division. Because WWE absolutely does not care about any (non-4hw) woman not involved in the title scene. And that's a fact at this point. They don't get secondary feuds that mean anything, and get almost no screentime outside of being fed to Bianca, Becky, or Charlotte at this point. Yes the tag titles exist but they really shouldn't. It would be better to just get rid of them and give RAW and Smackdown a secondary title each for the women, so more can get on the show at this point. Yes I watch every main roster show. One, it’s a Saudi crowd which is much different than any other crowd. Two, there’s a big difference between a crowd booing that someone they like gets eliminated from a multi-person match or battle royal and actually booing the person who won because they win “too much.” I haven’t seen evidence of the latter with Bianca at all. As to your other point, not every talented woman (or man) needs time to be the centerpiece of a division. Sometimes, if you have someone talented and over enough you can keep them as the centerpiece for years and years and just cycle in new challengers and feuds. And Bianca meanwhile has nowhere near been pushed at the top of the division for too long of a time. She had her run from Mania to Summerslam and then has been built back up the last few months leading into Mania. |
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Post by mistery on Mar 18, 2022 8:42:59 GMT -5
You didn't watch Elimination Chamber, did you? A crowd that should have been overwhelmingly friendly towards Bianca booed her when she pinned Rhea and Alexa. And it's only going to get worse once she starts running over other well liked names. As for Becky being booed, it's obvious she's cooled off massively since then. She hasn't been even remotely as over as she was during her pre-pregnancy run. This is why I am absolutely against Bianca having a long run with the title or her superhuman level booking. Because as long as she is around, no other woman is truly going to get a chance to shine or be the centerpiece of the division. Because WWE absolutely does not care about any (non-4hw) woman not involved in the title scene. And that's a fact at this point. They don't get secondary feuds that mean anything, and get almost no screentime outside of being fed to Bianca, Becky, or Charlotte at this point. Yes the tag titles exist but they really shouldn't. It would be better to just get rid of them and give RAW and Smackdown a secondary title each for the women, so more can get on the show at this point. Yes I watch every main roster show. One, it’s a Saudi crowd which is much different than any other crowd. Two, there’s a big difference between a crowd booing that someone they like gets eliminated from a multi-person match or battle royal and actually booing the person who won because they win “too much.” I haven’t seen evidence of the latter with Bianca at all. As to your other point, not every talented woman (or man) needs time to be the centerpiece of a division. Sometimes, if you have someone talented and over enough you can keep them as the centerpiece for years and years and just cycle in new challengers and feuds. Yet you completely glossed over the point I was making. Which was that if you are a woman and aren't in the title scene and aren't a 4HW or Bianca you don't matter to WWE. No matter how talented you may be. So you are saying its perfectly okay for those women to be left off of TV or treated poorly because they aren't in the title scene? Because that is what happens. A lot. It also doesn't help that those women aren't given a chance to prove themselves either if they are potential stars. Look at some of the women who were released like Tegan, Mia, etc. They never got a chance to prove themselves. And then you have women like Shotzi whose ceiling is being squashed by Sasha or losing to Aliyah in dark matches. Because that's the kind of attitude/mindset that will result in a serious talent drain sooner rather than later. WWE's utter refusal to try and build up more women is going to bite them in the ass sooner rather than later at this point. I can easily imagine a serious talent drain happening within the next couple of years as more and more women realize that they are never actually going to reach the top because they aren't a "chosen one" by the company. And it's all on WWE deciding that the only time a non 4HW should be featured is being fed to top talent, where they then fall back down the card. Instead of actually trying to invest into a wide variety, they put their focus on a select few women and the rest don't even get much screentime or even other feuds that WWE puts any focus on. And when those women (who have fans of their own) show up on TV just to get fed to Bianca or a 4HW, guess what happens? It breeds resentment, because we all know that those women are never really going to get a real chance at the top of the card. Because anyone who faces Bianca or a 4HW when they are champ is basically seen as a filler challenger at best at this point. And then when they lose, they fall back down the card and pretty much disappear off of TV again or are relegated to matches that get like 5 minutes squashed between replays of segments that happened 30 minutes earlier in the show. |
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Post by polarbearpete on Mar 18, 2022 8:50:11 GMT -5
Yes I watch every main roster show. One, it’s a Saudi crowd which is much different than any other crowd. Two, there’s a big difference between a crowd booing that someone they like gets eliminated from a multi-person match or battle royal and actually booing the person who won because they win “too much.” I haven’t seen evidence of the latter with Bianca at all. As to your other point, not every talented woman (or man) needs time to be the centerpiece of a division. Sometimes, if you have someone talented and over enough you can keep them as the centerpiece for years and years and just cycle in new challengers and feuds. Yet you completely glossed over the point I was making. Which was that if you are a woman and aren't in the title scene and aren't a 4HW or Bianca you don't matter to WWE. No matter how talented you may be. So you are saying its perfectly okay for those women to be left off of TV or treated poorly because they aren't in the title scene? Because that is what happens. A lot. It also doesn't help that those women aren't given a chance to prove themselves either if they are potential stars. Look at some of the women who were released like Tegan, Mia, etc. They never got a chance to prove themselves. And then you have women like Shotzi whose ceiling is being squashed by Sasha or losing to Aliyah in dark matches. Because that's the kind of attitude/mindset that will result in a serious talent drain sooner rather than later. WWE's utter refusal to try and build up more women is going to bite them in the ass sooner rather than later at this point. I can easily imagine a serious talent drain happening within the next couple of years as more and more women realize that they are never actually going to reach the top because they aren't a "chosen one" by the company. And it's all on WWE deciding that the only time a non 4HW should be featured is being fed to top talent, where they then fall back down the card. Instead of actually trying to invest into a wide variety, they put their focus on a select few women and the rest don't even get much screentime or even other feuds that WWE puts any focus on. Where did I say it’s okay for them to be left off TV or treated poorly? I agree they should work more on undercard singles feuds for the women like Naomi/Sonya and they should add more women to the roster and also beef up the tag division again. But I don’t agree that the top stars should move aside and they should push a ton of different women as the “centerpiece.” They should build the top of the division around the main stars they want to build (like the 4HW and Bianca), and then develop a meaningful undercard and tag division, while cycling title challengers in and out. |
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Post by mistery on Mar 18, 2022 9:01:23 GMT -5
Yet you completely glossed over the point I was making. Which was that if you are a woman and aren't in the title scene and aren't a 4HW or Bianca you don't matter to WWE. No matter how talented you may be. So you are saying its perfectly okay for those women to be left off of TV or treated poorly because they aren't in the title scene? Because that is what happens. A lot. It also doesn't help that those women aren't given a chance to prove themselves either if they are potential stars. Look at some of the women who were released like Tegan, Mia, etc. They never got a chance to prove themselves. And then you have women like Shotzi whose ceiling is being squashed by Sasha or losing to Aliyah in dark matches. Because that's the kind of attitude/mindset that will result in a serious talent drain sooner rather than later. WWE's utter refusal to try and build up more women is going to bite them in the ass sooner rather than later at this point. I can easily imagine a serious talent drain happening within the next couple of years as more and more women realize that they are never actually going to reach the top because they aren't a "chosen one" by the company. And it's all on WWE deciding that the only time a non 4HW should be featured is being fed to top talent, where they then fall back down the card. Instead of actually trying to invest into a wide variety, they put their focus on a select few women and the rest don't even get much screentime or even other feuds that WWE puts any focus on. Where did I say it’s okay for them to be left off TV or treated poorly? I agree they should work more on undercard singles feuds for the women like Naomi/Sonya and they should add more women to the roster and also beef up the tag division again. But I don’t agree that the top stars should move aside and they should push a ton of different women as the “centerpiece.” They should build the top of the division around the main stars they want to build (like the 4HW and Bianca), and then develop a meaningful undercard and tag division, while cycling title challengers in and out. I will say this again. If you are not a 4HW or Bianca, you will pretty much never get to be a centerpiece of the division. Or be a central focus at all. Because all WWE cares about is the main event scene when it comes to the women. Hence people demanding other women get pushed into that scene. Because otherwise they don't matter. And there is absolutely no chance in hell of that changing with the current creative in place. This is why WWE is going to have a serious talent drain when it comes to the women in a couple of years at best. If you are a woman in the company who has actual high aspirations with someone like Io Shirai (who has said she wants to main event and win a singles title at Wrestlemania), but WWE declares your ceiling is appearing on TV and either putting over a 4HW/Bianca or getting a short 5 minute match, guess what? You would be better suited going elsewhere, because WWE isn't going to give you the chance. And there is no chance of there ever being an actual women's midcard in the company (or at least on the main roster) because WWE outright refuses to build one. When AEW of all companies has you beat on that front when it comes to women, you should be ashamed of yourself. Because at least it has a clear lower card, midcard, and main event scene. Where with WWE you are either a main eventer or pretty much lower card fighting for screen time with other women. This is why there is growing negativity regarding the 4HW and Bianca being the centerpieces of the division. They are taking up spots that should be shuffled out to other women. |
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Post by Mid-Carder on Mar 18, 2022 9:06:09 GMT -5
Where did I say it’s okay for them to be left off TV or treated poorly? I agree they should work more on undercard singles feuds for the women like Naomi/Sonya and they should add more women to the roster and also beef up the tag division again. But I don’t agree that the top stars should move aside and they should push a ton of different women as the “centerpiece.” They should build the top of the division around the main stars they want to build (like the 4HW and Bianca), and then develop a meaningful undercard and tag division, while cycling title challengers in and out. I will say this again. If you are not a 4HW or Bianca, you will pretty much never get to be a centerpiece of the division. Or be a central focus at all. Because all WWE cares about is the main event scene when it comes to the women. Hence people demanding other women get pushed into that scene. Because otherwise they don't matter. And there is absolutely no chance in hell of that changing with the current creative in place. This is why WWE is going to have a serious talent drain when it comes to the women in a couple of years at best. If you are a woman in the company who has actual high aspirations with someone like Io Shirai (who has said she wants to main event and win a singles title at Wrestlemania), but WWE declares your ceiling is appearing on TV and either putting over a 4HW/Bianca or getting a short 5 minute match, guess what? You would be better suited going elsewhere, because WWE isn't going to give you the chance. And there is no chance of there ever being an actual women's midcard in the company (or at least on the main roster) because WWE outright refuses to build one. When AEW of all companies has you beat on that front when it comes to women, you should be ashamed of yourself. Because at least it has a clear lower card, midcard, and main event scene. Where with WWE you are either a main eventer or pretty much lower card fighting for screen time with other women. This is why there is growing negativity regarding the 4HW and Bianca being the centerpieces of the division. They are taking up spots that should be shuffled out to other women. It used to be if you're not a 4HW you won't be a centrepiece of the division. Then it was if you're not a 4HW or Alexa. Then it was if you're not a 4HW, Alexa or Ronda. Now Bianca has been added to that too. |
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Mar 18, 2022 9:09:12 GMT -5
I will say this again. If you are not a 4HW or Bianca, you will pretty much never get to be a centerpiece of the division. Or be a central focus at all. Because all WWE cares about is the main event scene when it comes to the women. Hence people demanding other women get pushed into that scene. Because otherwise they don't matter. And there is absolutely no chance in hell of that changing with the current creative in place. This is why WWE is going to have a serious talent drain when it comes to the women in a couple of years at best. If you are a woman in the company who has actual high aspirations with someone like Io Shirai (who has said she wants to main event and win a singles title at Wrestlemania), but WWE declares your ceiling is appearing on TV and either putting over a 4HW/Bianca or getting a short 5 minute match, guess what? You would be better suited going elsewhere, because WWE isn't going to give you the chance. And there is no chance of there ever being an actual women's midcard in the company (or at least on the main roster) because WWE outright refuses to build one. When AEW of all companies has you beat on that front when it comes to women, you should be ashamed of yourself. Because at least it has a clear lower card, midcard, and main event scene. Where with WWE you are either a main eventer or pretty much lower card fighting for screen time with other women. This is why there is growing negativity regarding the 4HW and Bianca being the centerpieces of the division. They are taking up spots that should be shuffled out to other women. It used to be if you're not a 4HW you won't be a centrepiece of the division. Then it was if you're not a 4HW or Alexa. Then it was if you're not a 4HW, Alexa or Ronda. Now Bianca has been added to that too. This is how you know you’ve made it, when it’s arbitrarily decided you’ve had enough push and should f*** off and let someone else have a turn. |
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Post by polarbearpete on Mar 18, 2022 9:12:53 GMT -5
I will say this again. If you are not a 4HW or Bianca, you will pretty much never get to be a centerpiece of the division. Or be a central focus at all. Because all WWE cares about is the main event scene when it comes to the women. Hence people demanding other women get pushed into that scene. Because otherwise they don't matter. And there is absolutely no chance in hell of that changing with the current creative in place. This is why WWE is going to have a serious talent drain when it comes to the women in a couple of years at best. If you are a woman in the company who has actual high aspirations with someone like Io Shirai (who has said she wants to main event and win a singles title at Wrestlemania), but WWE declares your ceiling is appearing on TV and either putting over a 4HW/Bianca or getting a short 5 minute match, guess what? You would be better suited going elsewhere, because WWE isn't going to give you the chance. And there is no chance of there ever being an actual women's midcard in the company (or at least on the main roster) because WWE outright refuses to build one. When AEW of all companies has you beat on that front when it comes to women, you should be ashamed of yourself. Because at least it has a clear lower card, midcard, and main event scene. Where with WWE you are either a main eventer or pretty much lower card fighting for screen time with other women. This is why there is growing negativity regarding the 4HW and Bianca being the centerpieces of the division. They are taking up spots that should be shuffled out to other women. It used to be if you're not a 4HW you won't be a centrepiece of the division. Then it was if you're not a 4HW or Alexa. Then it was if you're not a 4HW, Alexa or Ronda. Now Bianca has been added to that too. Yes and then later in the year, Rhea will be added to that. The real message seems to be “push my favorite!” |
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Post by mistery on Mar 18, 2022 9:20:35 GMT -5
I will say this again. If you are not a 4HW or Bianca, you will pretty much never get to be a centerpiece of the division. Or be a central focus at all. Because all WWE cares about is the main event scene when it comes to the women. Hence people demanding other women get pushed into that scene. Because otherwise they don't matter. And there is absolutely no chance in hell of that changing with the current creative in place. This is why WWE is going to have a serious talent drain when it comes to the women in a couple of years at best. If you are a woman in the company who has actual high aspirations with someone like Io Shirai (who has said she wants to main event and win a singles title at Wrestlemania), but WWE declares your ceiling is appearing on TV and either putting over a 4HW/Bianca or getting a short 5 minute match, guess what? You would be better suited going elsewhere, because WWE isn't going to give you the chance. And there is no chance of there ever being an actual women's midcard in the company (or at least on the main roster) because WWE outright refuses to build one. When AEW of all companies has you beat on that front when it comes to women, you should be ashamed of yourself. Because at least it has a clear lower card, midcard, and main event scene. Where with WWE you are either a main eventer or pretty much lower card fighting for screen time with other women. This is why there is growing negativity regarding the 4HW and Bianca being the centerpieces of the division. They are taking up spots that should be shuffled out to other women. It used to be if you're not a 4HW you won't be a centrepiece of the division. Then it was if you're not a 4HW or Alexa. Then it was if you're not a 4HW, Alexa or Ronda. Now Bianca has been added to that too. Disclaimer: I don't necessarily like or care for Alexa, but she's fallen off pretty hard over the past six months or so. Terrible therapy segments, and her big return was...losing to Bianca inside the Chamber. I think her time in the main event scene is over. It's all about Bianca, Ronda, and the 4HW. And I don't see that changing any time soon. Like...if I were a woman in WWE and I had aspirations that involved wanting to be a central focus of the division or at least being treated like I matteredl, I would be seriously considering if its worth sticking around in WWE and not trying my luck elsewhere. Because the title scene is locked down for the rest of the year basically. Bianca at worst, is losing that title at Summerslam. Otherwise she probably isn't losing it until next Wrestlemania at the earliest. So that's the RAW scene locked down. And remember, no woman outside of the main event scene truly matters to WWE. And there is zero chance of Ronda losing before she faces off against Becky next year. She's gonna beat Charlotte this year, and likely never lose a singles match until next year's WM. So that's the next year of the division likely being dominated by Bianca and Ronda, with the other women who aren't in the title scene or a 4HW getting little to no time, on top of not getting any real feuds. I also don't know why people are so convinced we are getting Bianca/Rhea at Summerslam. I think they would have went to better lengths to actually protect the match if it was going to happen. It's more likely we get something like Bianca/Bayley or Bianca/Becky again at Summerslam. |
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Post by eJm on Mar 18, 2022 9:50:29 GMT -5
Far be it from me, someone who hasn't watched the shows since Royal Rumble 2021, to throw in something but the issue hasn't been with those who have been there doing the work but the booking to try and take a small women's roster (for post AE WWE) and keep the interest going when it's almost impossible to do without making some people look bad for a time. A lot of that is on WWE, really. They fired a bunch of talent who could have helped that, messed with the people who were over to an extent and (as a wider main roster problem) threw people out to angles they weren't going to do good in because that isn't their strength. Liv Morgan isn't a 20 minute promo cutter but she doesn't have to be, for example. As EoE: Well There's Your Problem said, and I agree with, the issue is depth. On Raw at least, the moment you leave Becky, Bianca and Rhea, there's a damn crater in terms of depth before you reach Nikki, Carmella and Zelina and you can only do so much with that. It'd be like if the Ruthless Aggression Smackdown era had Brock, Angle and Big Show in the main event and then the next people you can do feuds with is Funaki, Crash Holly and Nunzio. Those three would be great in squash matches but what about after you've expended them? Whose next? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2022 10:03:35 GMT -5
The issue is two fold IMO.
1.Depth
2.They give little to no reason for the audience to care about the other women other than the champion and contender.
And this is what (while it may not be happening right now) will result in the audience turning on Bianca because it is everyone being fed to prop up 1 single woman and WWE does it every single f***ing time.
the likes of Tamina and Dana might be the luckiest women because they actually are getting "stories" away from any titles...and that should be something I should not view as a rarity but it is in this company and if the rest of the women got this I don't think these issues become quite as terrible as it is right now.
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