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Post by The Rick Jericho on Mar 20, 2022 11:24:03 GMT -5
I remember when it first started, it was very hard to buy. But by the time he got to Wrestlemania, he seemed legit enough to put over Cena.
So looking back 17 years later, did you enjoy this title reign?
Does it still hold up well today?
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Mar 20, 2022 11:59:23 GMT -5
I thought the first couple of months were okay with the Eddie feud and the last couple of months when it was clear he was going to drop it to Cena but the 6 months in the middle were dire. Try and rewatch Summerslam/No Mercy v Undertaker or Survivor Series v Booker T. Just dreadfully boring and some of the worst major world title matches ever.
I watched WWE for 6-7 years straight. Bought every PPV. Watched every Raw. Every Smackdown. Even Sunday Night Heat and Velocity usually. I survived the invasion. Katie Vick. HLA. The reign of terror. The thing that actually got me to stop watching Smackdown regularly and stop ordering their brand exclusive PPVs was JBL as the top star in 2004. It’s probably not as bad in hindsight but living through it at the time I hated it.
It was probably ultimately successful though. They took a guy who was probably heading the way of Hardcore Holly/Val Venis, kept around for years as a thank you for their loyalty but ultimately not doing much of note, and overnight with a gimmick change they created a main eventer and future hall of famer.
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Mar 20, 2022 13:28:35 GMT -5
I'm not prepared to go back and watch it, but at the time I thought it was absolute shit, aside from the feud with Eddie.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Mar 20, 2022 13:38:07 GMT -5
Was bad then, still bad now
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Mar 20, 2022 13:41:27 GMT -5
I think Hunter's reign was very imperfect but if you look back, he did a lot of good work in getting some faces over. I don't think JBL did anything close to that kind of work. Even with Cena, he would've been fine with literally any generic heel and I think that match ended up undermining his rise a bit by not being as big a moment as it should've been.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Mar 20, 2022 13:56:32 GMT -5
I think Hunter's reign was very imperfect but if you look back, he did a lot of good work in getting some faces over. I don't think JBL did anything close to that kind of work. Even with Cena, he would've been fine with literally any generic heel and I think that match ended up undermining his rise a bit by not being as big a moment as it should've been. See I disagree. I think JBL and H both made every face they worked with look bad. H because he came out the ultimate badass and them weak. JBL because he came out weak and they looked dumb for being unable to beat him. The main difference is when they finally put someone over H did fantastic and JBL just had no ability or credibility to do that.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Mar 20, 2022 14:25:12 GMT -5
It had its moments along the way but most of it was a complete chore. The JBL character worked a lot better as a former champion than it did while he actually was champion.
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Post by GuyOfOwnage on Mar 20, 2022 14:26:56 GMT -5
Sad it before, I'll say it again - I could never buy perennial tag team guy and lower-to-mid-carder Bradshaw suddenly becoming a main eventer and WWE Champion seemingly overnight. That latter half of 2004 and early 2005, with JBL on Smackdown and the Reign of Terror continuing on Raw was brutal on me as a fan, to the point where I stopped actively watching WWE programming for at least a year or more. It had its moments along the way but most of it was a complete chore. The JBL character worked a lot better as a former champion than it did while he actually was champion. I actually found myself tolerating the character's presence a lot more once he dropped down the card into the US title scene. It felt like a good spot for him.
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Post by Starshine on Mar 20, 2022 14:31:18 GMT -5
He had a good gimmick, and promo, but that’s kind of where his credibility ends. There’s no way I’d want to go back and watch any of his defenses. SmackDown as a whole was really rough in ‘04, and him being the top of the card reflects how lacking they were for star power.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Mar 20, 2022 14:32:20 GMT -5
In retrospect it's fun to watch what a piece of shit he was at the time, but I can't ever forget how bad business tanked with him on top. It's kind of amazing they let him hold the belt until Mania instead of putting it back on someone like Kurt.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Mar 20, 2022 14:36:32 GMT -5
I think Hunter's reign was very imperfect but if you look back, he did a lot of good work in getting some faces over. I don't think JBL did anything close to that kind of work. Even with Cena, he would've been fine with literally any generic heel and I think that match ended up undermining his rise a bit by not being as big a moment as it should've been. See I disagree. I think JBL and H both made every face they worked with look bad. H because he came out the ultimate badass and them weak. JBL because he came out weak and they looked dumb for being unable to beat him. The main difference is when they finally put someone over H did fantastic and JBL just had no ability or credibility to do that. People wanted Cena to be champ and they wanted JBL to not be champ but I don't think anyone cared if Cena specifically beat JBL, if that makes any sense
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Post by Andee9001 on Mar 20, 2022 16:19:45 GMT -5
I hated it when i was a kid but i hated it the right way. For what it's worth he wasn't the most exciting wrestler but the matches were usually good enough brawls. His matches with Eddie were brutal, him wearing the neck brace with the hat on top and interacting with mini Undertaker were pretty funny and i remember really enjoying the Armageddon main event. As a wrestler he was an unlikable, weasley prick who always found a way to keep his title and i think he played that well. So yeah it may not have been a great run but there is some gold in there.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Mar 20, 2022 16:28:45 GMT -5
In retrospect it's fun to watch what a piece of shit he was at the time, but I can't ever forget how bad business tanked with him on top. It's kind of amazing they let him hold the belt until Mania instead of putting it back on someone like Kurt. Weirdly, ratings went up a bit compared to Eddie as champion, but it wasn't like a huge leap, from what I recall. The JBL run was sort of wild in that it was really blatantly milking both his reputation with smarks and resentment towards the Bush administration (see: Cabinet, Eddie feud, etc), though by the time Cena beat him, I guess they were essentially treating him as a big square versus the "hip" Cena, which, I guess makes sense. It just honestly would have maybe made more sense to have the anti-Mexican bully get beaten by Rey.
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Post by Wieners=$$$ on Mar 20, 2022 16:31:02 GMT -5
Eddie proved that he could put/get over a tag-teamer for life into the champion. In my eyes, it was less about JBL having a title reign and more about who got him there. Eddie deserved another reign, but tragically it never came to fruition.
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Post by bob on Mar 20, 2022 16:35:19 GMT -5
nope
it was like Jinder's run with the belt, only Bradshaw had some credibility before randomly getting a title run before solidifying himself as a main event singles wrestler
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Mar 20, 2022 16:55:27 GMT -5
I think Hunter's reign was very imperfect but if you look back, he did a lot of good work in getting some faces over. I don't think JBL did anything close to that kind of work. Even with Cena, he would've been fine with literally any generic heel and I think that match ended up undermining his rise a bit by not being as big a moment as it should've been. Outside of the end with Batista, name one face who got over because of working with HHH or benefit from it. The answer is really nobody. RVD was extremely over before he faced HHH and HHH beat him and back down the card he went. Kane didn't gain nothing from it. Outside made into a joke for that time frame and wasn't until the next Summer Kane turned and HAD some creditability regained but again The fact that monster struggled to beat Shane McMahon. Nope. Booker T was over going into it and HHH made racial comments and than beat him after taking legit forever to make a cover. Again how did he help? The rest was Steiner and Nash nothing to right home about. HBK was already over and he only won against HHH twice early and than it was all HHH. So who Benoit at the time? Orton face run? nope. Goldberg was made to look weaker than he ever was booked before hand. The only different between the two runs that HHH was more established going into it as a Main Event player but didn't help anybody get over outside of Batista at the end of the run.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Mar 20, 2022 17:10:04 GMT -5
His Clothesline from Hell is a top tier finisher.
I actually think his run on Raw during 02 as a Stan Hansen bad ass, had potential.
Overall, I'd rate his reign a C+. The beginning with Eddie was good. I really liked the Armageddon 4 way, the 3 way at the Rumble, and the Judgement Day rematch with Cena.
But there was bad to.
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Post by Blade on Mar 20, 2022 17:42:07 GMT -5
Outside of the end with Batista, name one face who got over because of working with HHH or benefit from it. The answer is really nobody. Shelton Benjamin. I enjoyed JBL's title reign. Whatever his flaws as a person, he understood the idea of a non-monster heel champion is to look beatable and to hold on by the skin of their teeth, and he played that well in a depleted period for Smackdown. He never had any problem showing ass or looking ridiculous, and I fondly remember him drunkenly threatening an inflatable Godzilla in his underwear (which was all a ruse to sucker Big Show, which... didn't work).
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Mar 20, 2022 17:50:23 GMT -5
Outside of the end with Batista, name one face who got over because of working with HHH or benefit from it. The answer is really nobody. Shelton Benjamin. I enjoyed JBL's title reign. Whatever his flaws as a person, he understood the idea of a non-monster heel champion is to look beatable and to hold on by the skin of their teeth, and he played that well in a depleted period for Smackdown. He never had any problem showing ass or looking ridiculous, and I fondly remember him drunkenly threatening an inflatable Godzilla in his underwear (which was all a ruse to sucker Big Show, which... didn't work). You really think Shelton benefit from it? Yeah he got the I-C title but he never went all Main Event from it. He was back down the card after it.
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Post by Starshine on Mar 20, 2022 18:01:56 GMT -5
nope it was like Jinder's run with the belt, only Bradshaw had some credibility before randomly getting a title run before solidifying himself as a main event singles wrestler I don't know if that's fair, JBL was objectively better than Jinder. Even if you want to put their in-ring stuff on the same level, JBL could promo, and had a stronger main event personality and presence. At the time Bradshaw won the belt, it was a shocking result, but he didn't seem completely out of place in a world title match compared to Jinder, who never got there.
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