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Post by noobeast on Mar 21, 2022 20:40:48 GMT -5
Nah, not at all.
It's didn't hold up then either, to be fair.
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Post by Cyno on Mar 21, 2022 20:55:07 GMT -5
I hated it and I don't look back on it fondly, though the Clothesline from Hell is a heck of a finisher.
JBL is just one of those guys I never bought as a main eventer.
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Post by Tiffany Stratton's Daddy on Mar 21, 2022 21:01:34 GMT -5
I'm a big advocate for the reigns of Triple H and JBL. While these reigns happened simultaneously, it also did so with simultaneously making two major stars at WrestleMania 21 in Batista and John Cena respectively.
Their role was accomplished. Genuine heel champions who garnered a negative crowd reaction and ultimately elevated the future of the company. These, honestly, are two of the better heel champion runs in the 21st century.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Mar 21, 2022 21:30:05 GMT -5
I'm a big advocate for the reigns of Triple H and JBL. While these reigns happened simultaneously, it also did so with simultaneously making two major stars at WrestleMania 21 in Batista and John Cena respectively. Their role was accomplished. Genuine heel champions who garnered a negative crowd reaction and ultimately elevated the future of the company. These, honestly, are two of the better heel champion runs in the 21st century. I agree the Batista coronation needed the HHH reign and storyline but Cena was so over from 03-05 it didn't really matter who he won his first world title from. Cena had already become the top merch seller in the company before Bradshaw had even become JBL. He didn't need a rub from JBL. He had no great history or rivalry with him and the match was boring. I'd argue Angle would have done a better job giving Cena a hotter title winning match (they had a great match the previous month at No Way Out) and they had been rivals on and off since 2002.
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Post by Tiffany Stratton's Daddy on Mar 21, 2022 21:45:41 GMT -5
I'm a big advocate for the reigns of Triple H and JBL. While these reigns happened simultaneously, it also did so with simultaneously making two major stars at WrestleMania 21 in Batista and John Cena respectively. Their role was accomplished. Genuine heel champions who garnered a negative crowd reaction and ultimately elevated the future of the company. These, honestly, are two of the better heel champion runs in the 21st century. I agree the Batista coronation needed the HHH reign and storyline but Cena was so over from 03-05 it didn't really matter who he won his first world title from. Cena had already become the top merch seller in the company before Bradshaw had even become JBL. He didn't need a rub from JBL. He had no great history or rivalry with him and the match was boring. I'd argue Angle would have done a better job giving Cena a hotter title winning match (they had a great match the previous month at No Way Out) and they had been rivals on and off since 2002. Angle would have been a suitable opponent, but we had seen Angle in the WWE Championship match at 19 and 20. It would've been a similar story that we saw from Brock, and more spot-on, Eddie. Plus, if we get Angle vs Cena at 21, we don't get Angle vs HBK, one of the better matches in WrestleMania history. JBL's character was the perfect character for John Cena to fight up against. The brash, New York businessman versus the rebellious gangsta. Rich versus poor. It was peanut butter and jelly.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Mar 21, 2022 22:15:15 GMT -5
While I'll take my mea culpa for forgetting the timeline in which Taboo Tuesday happened, it comes down to this: He's had a very successful career and is employed by WWE right now. There is absolutely no guarantee any of that happens with him pinning Triple H clean (and then beating him again in the rematch). It was as textbook an elevation as wrestling gets: nobody comes out of nowhere, pins the former world champ and puts himself on the map. What exactly can be considered a success though? I guess if WWE brought him back because he is/was a good worker and has longevity you can call him that on the business side of things, but I don't recall him being very over despite being prominently featured on TV, had interactions with major stars, was given three IC title reigns and a US one. I mean yeah he's had his moments(such as beating Triple H and MITB with those high spots), but when it comes to being over consistently with the crowd, I don't recall and they've been pushing him for over 4 years. I guess you can bring up he was picked to take on Chris Jericho for the IC belt at Taboo Tuesday but is there any way to confirm the voting was legitimate? It's hard to tell if it was down to him(he came off as marble-mouth on the mic) or bad-booking, but he's an example of a guy who should be more over and successful with what he was given. This is my point agreeing with this post in repsonse to what he said to mine. To Blade, The fact that his most memorable moments in the WWE is the MITB high spots which he never won I may add and getting Super Kicked counter against HBK. So what he still employed by the WWE today being he barely used. The last time I saw him was he and Alexander being JOBBERS to Omos. Thats not saying much. He was still fired and brought back YEARS later. If you believe that all his success was based on beating HHH and nothing to do with Smackdown as well Tag team or not. He was still feature in high profile matches teaming with Kurt Angle and went up against Brock. The fact he went BACK to tag teaming with Charlie a couple years later and did nothing in that run. Duded was low card most of his run. Yes he eas a damn good athlete and in ring worker. He didn't have much of a personality. He did have a US title run yes but can you really remember anything from that run? When he was I-C champion what can you remember from it outside of winning it? You can say I can't guarantee this wouldn't happen with out HHH. Whos to say it wouldn't? Nobody knows that but WWE. If someone is beating a former World Champion twice, I should be Main Eventing PPVs. Not midcard champion six months later. Plenty of guys had that same row as Shelton has without beating a HHH. Thats my point is someone is beating HHH in that way, that should make him a Main Event guy. Yes not everyone is a Main Event guyy but when you beating HHH like that, you should be.
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Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
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Post by Blade on Mar 22, 2022 0:13:24 GMT -5
And my point remains, the reason (or at least a big reason) Shelton Benjamin had the career he did, and not the career Charlie Haas did, is because he was elevated by beating HHH. That's why he had the credibility to beat Jericho (having been chosen by fan vote), or to later challenge for the ECW title, and ultimately why he's still remembered fondly and used now (even in a jtts role). He also had success outside WWE. There's no guarantee any of that happens if HHH squashes him and sent him to Heat.
You can elevate someone without that someone reaching the main event. 1-2-3 Kid wasn't a main eventer, but he sure as hell was elevated by beating Razor. Barry Horowitz was elevated from perennial jobber to midcarder by beating Skip. Etc, etc.
Your argument is he wasn't elevated ENOUGH, but Shelton Benjamin was unquestionably a bigger star for pinning HHH clean (and then beating him again to show it wasn't a fluke). What could that be BUT elevation from working with HHH?
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Mar 22, 2022 1:06:05 GMT -5
It had its moments along the way but most of it was a complete chore. The JBL character worked a lot better as a former champion than it did while he actually was champion. I think this is a fairly succinct way of stating it. The initial Guerrero match breaking the Muta scale is fun to look back on, and there was some great promo work during this time, but he had no star power when he won the damn thing, dragging the title into the midcard (he didn't even close the PPV he won the title at, and it was a Smackdown only show, and he never closed a dual brand show during this run) before it elevated him into the main event. However, holding the WWE title for so long, even if his reign sucked and clearly marked Smackdown as a the B-show regardless of JBL proclaiming otherwise, gave him a layer of credibility that served him well when he was challenging for world titles after his run, and made him good for elevating the midcard US and IC titles when he got them. It's also worth noting that Bradshaw was a midcarder but he was always heavily protected as a midcard guy and was usually over at least to some degree. Plus it was already public knowledge that he was brilliant at investing money, so the character change wasn't out of left field. Jinder had none of that. I disagree with the assertion that Bradsgaw was a protected midcard guy. The last year or so of the APA's run was hardly anything to write home about. They were taking Ls to chumps like the Basham Brothers in their BDSM gear, with Bradshaw giving Linda Miles implants with his Clothesline from Hell (I'm not even making this up, Shaniqua ate a lariat and came back weeks later with a boob job facetiously blaming Bradshaw for her chest swelling). Then at the Royal Rumble, just a couple months before the gimmick change, Bradshaw comes in at #5 and is the first man eliminated from the match. And then there's the match that spawned the JBL character, Scotty 2 Hotty and Rikishi vs. The APA in a what we were told is a Title vs. Career match. Not only does The APA choke in the most important match of their lives, BRADSHAW TAKES THE PIN DESPITE WHAT HAPPENS AFTERWARDS. Only in the aftermatch are both the APA and the audience are informed that Heyman was only going to fire Simmons, and that they were keeping Bradshaw because management saw potential in both his wrestling and investing skills. Now, this was a decent way of portraying Bradshaw as a disloyal snake, but not exactly the best way of establishing a main eventer. If the dude couldn't win the tag team titles under the assumption that his career was at stake, why am I supposed to turn around and think he's got a chance, much less being the odds on favorite, against WWE champion Eddie Guerrero, who was largely considered to be on the best wrestlers in the world at that point? He didn't even win a contender's match like Jinder Mahal did. Kurt Angle gave JBL the match in a corrupt deal that with evil GM Kurt Angle, who blamed Eddie Guerrero for him being in a wheelchair. Again, why should I believe that Angle would back the horse that couldn't get the tag titles with his career at stake to get the job done against the WWE champion? They needed to establish the new JBL character with some big wins before going into the title chase, but they skipped it in their desperation to make up for Brock Lesnar no longer being around, even though someone like Booker T could have worked as a stopgap while JBL goes on a tear in the midcard.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,037
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Mar 22, 2022 16:27:02 GMT -5
His character grew with the title reign but man, as others have said, the Taker and Booker matches were some of the worst WWE title matches I've ever seen.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Mar 22, 2022 16:33:51 GMT -5
I hated it and I don't look back on it fondly, though the Clothesline from Hell is a heck of a finisher. JBL is just one of those guys I never bought as a main eventer. I think he is a terrible person but the way he bounced hard off the ropes and put his whole ass into that clothesline was incredible
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