Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,061
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Post by Mecca on May 12, 2022 17:56:12 GMT -5
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,069
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Post by Mozenrath on May 12, 2022 18:54:12 GMT -5
Rikidozan also picked a fight with the yakuza guy at a nightclub and was beating the crap out of him until the yakuza stabbed him. So it's not like there was a hit out on him or anything. He probably could've survived if he listened to the doctors after his first surgery. In the states, guys pick fights with wrestlers to prove its “fake.” In Puro, the stars pick fights to show off. Nearly every member of the first couple of Inoki’s dojo classes were notorious for that. Guess Rikidozan is where that started. Yeah, Inoki went that route, whereas I don't think Baba did so much, probably since, gaunt as he was, he was very tall and had less to really need to do to legitimize himself. He also just kinda comes off as having been a much more disciplined man than Inoki in terms of keeping his temper in check.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,106
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 12, 2022 19:07:38 GMT -5
I have no idea what to make of any of this, because no matter what comes out, whenever anything is translating, there's always people screaming that it's not an accurate translation. And I feel that with an enigmatic dude like Ibushi, you're probably not going to GET a 1:1 translation out of anybody.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on May 12, 2022 19:28:10 GMT -5
I have no idea what to make of any of this, because no matter what comes out, whenever anything is translating, there's always people screaming that it's not an accurate translation. And I feel that with an enigmatic dude like Ibushi, you're probably not going to GET a 1:1 translation out of anybody. Also, it starts before Ibushi was complaining about being dropped from last summer's Dome show because he had pnemonia. Which adds another level of "what the hell is going on here" to all of this.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,037
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on May 12, 2022 19:36:05 GMT -5
I have no idea what to make of any of this, because no matter what comes out, whenever anything is translating, there's always people screaming that it's not an accurate translation. And I feel that with an enigmatic dude like Ibushi, you're probably not going to GET a 1:1 translation out of anybody. Also, it starts before Ibushi was complaining about being dropped from last summer's Dome show because he had pnemonia. Which adds another level of "what the hell is going on here" to all of this. He’s complaining about being dropped because of his pneumonia?
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,037
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on May 12, 2022 19:37:02 GMT -5
In the states, guys pick fights with wrestlers to prove its “fake.” In Puro, the stars pick fights to show off. Nearly every member of the first couple of Inoki’s dojo classes were notorious for that. Guess Rikidozan is where that started. Yeah, Inoki went that route, whereas I don't think Baba did so much, probably since, gaunt as he was, he was very tall and had less to really need to do to legitimize himself. He also just kinda comes off as having been a much more disciplined man than Inoki in terms of keeping his temper in check. Inoki and Baba really were the epitome of the “Red Oni, Blue Oni” trope.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on May 12, 2022 21:43:21 GMT -5
Inoki's insecurities and need to prove himself, and the shit he seems to have passed on to a lot of his students, always felt to me like it was rooted in the shame of a man who became an icon of national pride through fixed fights. That breeds a special kind of insecurity few other wrestlers had to tangle with, and he spent years dangerously obsessed with MMA and forcing wrestlers to do MMA just so he could legitimize himself and his art.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,722
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Post by nisidhe on May 12, 2022 21:53:49 GMT -5
It's my understanding that the Yakuza have been in a steep decline during the last ten years or so as the result of draconian anti-Yakuza laws that make RICO look like EPA guidelines. Recruitment has gone through the floor as have their revenues. Socially, they've been rendered such pariahs that their children and grandchildren have been barred from attending certain schools because of their associations.
Ibushi is not exactly reinventing the wheel here, but might well be directing the Japanese government to take a closer look at NJPW and other promotions because it's one of the most lucrative sectors left that still might deal in cash payments. Don't forget: Ibushi is independently wealthy and comes from an upper-echelon family. Should anything happen to him (or to anyone belonging to him, so Kenny as well), the heat would be on the Yakuza even more. Are they gone for good? Not yet, but the insular nature of Japanese society largely prevents any possibility of a power vacuum being filled by foreign racketeers, so the cleanup of Japan from any criminal organization is more likely to be complete and utter when it happens.
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Heartbreaker
King Koopa
Is actually Bindi Irwin
RIP Punk's media scrum, Page 54, Muffins, Biting People Bad™ (2022 - 2022)
Posts: 11,846
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Post by Heartbreaker on May 12, 2022 21:54:36 GMT -5
I usually say "please don't die, Kota!" when he's landed on his neck for the 200th time. Didn't expect to say it cause of the f***ing Yakuza.
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Post by oxbaker on May 12, 2022 22:04:20 GMT -5
It's my understanding that the Yakuza have been in a steep decline during the last ten years or so as the result of draconian anti-Yakuza laws that make RICO look like EPA guidelines. Recruitment has gone through the floor as have their revenues. Socially, they've been rendered such pariahs that their children and grandchildren have been barred from attending certain schools because of their associations. Ibushi is not exactly reinventing the wheel here, but might well be directing the Japanese government to take a closer look at NJPW and other promotions because it's one of the most lucrative sectors left that still might deal in cash payments. Don't forget: Ibushi is independently wealthy and comes from an upper-echelon family. Should anything happen to him (or to anyone belonging to him, so Kenny as well), the heat would be on the Yakuza even more. Are they gone for good? Not yet, but the insular nature of Japanese society largely prevents any possibility of a power vacuum being filled by foreign racketeers, so the cleanup of Japan from any criminal organization is more likely to be complete and utter when it happens. I’ve seen people say the Yakuza are in decline and I’ve also seen it said that they have a stranglehold on the entertainment industry in Japan because they ‘legitimized’ many of their criminal enterprises and invested heavily in that area. I know one of their leaders was sentenced to death last year for ordering murders — the charges included at least one killing as late as 2014 … and I’m not going to be naive and say that was the last gangland murder one of the largest criminal enterprises in world history was involved in … more like the latest they could prove (and it can take years to compile evidence and groom witnesses to bring down a criminal giant). A simple google search shows this: 1) during that trial last year, the police were ordered to protect witnesses and judges, which makes it pretty clear that the criminal justice system in Japan felt the Yakuza posed enough of a threat of a violent strike or retaliation to order resources be used this way, so they didn’t feel like they were just a bunch of impotent old men; 2) last month the U.S. arrested a Yakuza leader trying to make an international arms deal with missiles and launchers — which is a pretty serious crime and not just running a backroom poker parlor. To me that paints them as still a pretty serious organization. Are they what they once were? Maybe not, but that doesn’t make them toothless or harmless. I don’t know what Ibushi knows or thinks he knows, but just because the Mafia isn’t what it was in the 1970s doesn’t mean it’s wise to call them out.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on May 13, 2022 3:19:22 GMT -5
Also, it starts before Ibushi was complaining about being dropped from last summer's Dome show because he had pnemonia. Which adds another level of "what the hell is going on here" to all of this. He’s complaining about being dropped because of his pneumonia? He was saying at the time that it was the office's call to not clear him to wrestle and that he felt fine to. Even though he had aspiration pnemonia.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2022 4:48:23 GMT -5
Honestly, I think the one-off "Yakuza" comment was in reference to the "ex-cheater gang" at the top of New Japan. Sounds like Ibushi is having a really hard time; hopefully he pulls through okay and has a good support system.
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Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,676
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Post by Kalmia on May 13, 2022 10:14:27 GMT -5
From what I understand, the Yakuza have gone from being a wide network to concentrating on certain areas, so it's possible that they've both lost power and are still knee-deep in things such as pro wrestling. A lot of people have left, but it's not really something you ever truly leave. I said earlier that I lived in Japan for eight years, and probably the weirdest hour of those years was spent having a lunch I didn't want with an ex-Yakuza guy who was very, very open about his former alliances.
But, they can't act with impunity anymore and have to keep their influence quiet. Even if the Yakuza is tied with NJPW, I bet it'd be difficult for anyone to prove it's anything more sinister than some legit business deals. I doubt it's anything Ibushi seriously needs to worry about and is just a distraction from the real story of what's going on between him and NJPW.
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Post by AwamoriRock on May 13, 2022 10:58:22 GMT -5
The theatrical Hollywood image of yakuza that people are drinking up in this thread being this strong is proof of how strong they are in a way lol.
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Post by rainandlava on May 13, 2022 13:58:47 GMT -5
I actually saw this on my Twitter TL early at 5:00 AM (Hawaii Time) and I actually paused for a few seconds when I read it.
Yikes is my biggest reply at this point.
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Burst
El Dandy
*inarticulate squawking*
Posts: 8,584
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Post by Burst on May 13, 2022 15:22:56 GMT -5
A lot of what people have been saying about the modern Yakuza pretty much lines up with a lot of what I've heard about the modern Mafia, at least in New York/Chicago.
Your number of 'true' wiseguys is definitely down across the board, and sure, a lot of that is shifting demographics, but a lot is also just insulation for the sheer number of guys that have turned witness in the last few decades. Less made men and more stringent criteria for making them in theory means less chance of rats, and I think the families are still leery of another Donnie Brasco happening. Again, not to say they aren't still there, hell, like last week I just saw a blurb about a New York mafioso being indicted for quite possibly the most stereotypical mafia thing ever (shaking down an Italian restaurant owner, because of course).
The other thing I've heard a lot of, is that like with what folks are saying about the Yakuza, you've definitely had a lot of folks, typically the ostensibly smarter ones, going into legit or nominally legit business simply because they can make more money with, I dunno, online gambling, than they can with bookies on the street, or what have you. Basically a sort of brain drain resulting in an oddball dichotomy where you've got either the idiot kids of the family that didn't have the smarts to go legit and who just embrace all the stereotypes and get caught, or the smart and clever ones who actually did just get better at consolidating their power and hiding their activity.
There's also a part of me that sees what almost comes off as a disproportionate amount of upfront "the Yakuza don't have much power anymore" posts on other sites, thinks about how common astroturfing is anymore, and goes "right, that's what the Yakuza would want you to think, in a way..."
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Post by ANuclearError on May 13, 2022 16:48:54 GMT -5
Honestly, I think the one-off "Yakuza" comment was in reference to the "ex-cheater gang" at the top of New Japan. Sounds like Ibushi is having a really hard time; hopefully he pulls through okay and has a good support system. It is possible that the Yakuka reference wasn't literal.
I can't help but be morbidly curious as to how NJPW will respond to this, particularly in booking. If NJPW don't actually get any real bother from this, then I'm thinking someone like SANADA is gonna fall into a nice position. If Ibushi's claiming that being an outsider is causing him to be treated different, then pushing SANADA would be the logical petty and vindictive option.
I do hope Ibushi doesn't get his career screwed cause of this, it does seem like he doesn't really have the backing of anyone, and the AEW/NJPW relationship definitley limits his most "obvious" choice so to speak. Frankly, Ibushi just wandering the worlds' indies would be a rather Ibushi thing (if he doesn't get lost in airports again).
EDIT: Also, Yano has made public reference to whats happening. Wouldn't say he says anything commital one way or the other. Very least he's not interested in throwing Ibushi under the bus.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on May 23, 2022 11:30:36 GMT -5
So Ibushi is now saying that his mother attempted suicide due to his allegations of treatment by NJPW...this isn't going to get better any time soon
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,037
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on May 23, 2022 13:24:36 GMT -5
So Ibushi is now saying that his mother attempted suicide due to his allegations of treatment by NJPW...this isn't going to get better any time soon Yeah, there’s no going back after that. True or not, if I thought someone was at least a contributing factor to something like that happening to my mother? You’re not getting anything from me without paying a gigantic price for it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2022 15:47:06 GMT -5
Seen a couple of translations but it really doesn't seem like he's well. Really worrying
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