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Post by celtics543 on Oct 12, 2022 9:11:49 GMT -5
Is it just me or has DX history been rewritten to where HHH was the most important member and biggest star of the group? I watched the 25th anniversary segment and as much as I thought it was just fine and enjoyable, they really seem to downplay HBK in the whole group. I think it's pretty undeniable that he's the biggest star of the group but when they all get together they kind of treat him like he's Road Dogg or XPac level.
Not sure that it bothers me but it's like they completely eliminated the 1997 version of DX and now it's just been retconned into HHH being the leader always. It doesn't make sense to me that HBK really doesn't get much mic time compared to HHH or even Road Dogg. It'd be like an Evolution reunion where HHH is treated as joke and Orton did all the talking and kind of acted the leader role.
Just an observation I had because it feels like 98% of the time Shawn is on the air these days he's not really treated as a big deal.
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Post by sunnytaker on Oct 12, 2022 9:28:42 GMT -5
original run DX was clearly HBK was the start and HHH was the young guy trying to find his place. once shawn took his break and HHH took charge both on and off screen he became the main guy of DX while shawn popped up every now and then. so probably more time has been spent with HHH portrayed as the leader of DX than shawn so shawn gets a lesser role in these reunions at this point. a lot of people probably don;t recall originally it was the other way around when it all started
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Oct 12, 2022 9:38:03 GMT -5
I mean the whole history of the group is pretty interesting given the way they're treated historically. I'm not saying a group that lasted 18 months can't matter a ton. They did matter. But I also think part of it is the way they've told the story over and over throughout the years and a lot more folks remember them from their 2006 reunion and video packages as opposed to watching them live. I watched their run a few years ago. Here's how it went:
- Top heels for six months where HBK is the clear top guys but Hunter doesn't really serve as a job guy necessarily but is certainly not presented in a main event light
- Then they're awkwardly heels for a couple of months when HBK leaves and X-Pac/New Age Outlaws join.
- Then they turn face and are very over for about 10 months before Hunter turns heel. And don't get me wrong. They were over. But they were a solid midcard act beneath all the top players at the time. And they had some memorable moments but also some of their stuff either doesn't age well or it just didn't hit at the time. Very fun in video packages but not always that fun week in and week out. Rewatching it makes it clear that Austin/Vince/Rock were the major drivers every week with acts like DX helping out.
- They slowly fall apart post Hunter heel turn and then reform at the end of the year as heels but it's mainly to serve Hunter and sputters out again.
So it's definitely a run that plays out a bit different in real time as opposed to how they tell the story later on. But to be fair, I think this is true with a lot of the Attitude Era. Certain acts and storylines are put on a pedestal as huge deals that barely lasted a few months and honestly weren't that great.
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salz4life
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Post by salz4life on Oct 12, 2022 9:44:09 GMT -5
I think HBK is probably ok with this. Remember, when he was in DX originally (not the mid 2000s revival) he was messed up. When he rejoined with HHH in the mid 2000s, I think he was fine with it as it was more of a scaled down version with HHH leading it with the sexual innuendo part and HBK playing the "lovable dufus" that can "go" in the ring. Based on how he used to be, while he has zero problem being involved, he is ok NOT being out front. That's my thought, at least.
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Post by polarbearpete on Oct 12, 2022 9:46:07 GMT -5
I mean the whole history of the group is pretty interesting given the way they're treated historically. I'm not saying a group that lasted 18 months can't matter a ton. They did matter. But I also think part of it is the way they've told the story over and over throughout the years and a lot more folks remember them from their 2006 reunion and video packages as opposed to watching them live. I watched their run a few years ago. Here's how it went: - Top heels for six months where HBK is the clear top guys but Hunter doesn't really serve as a job guy necessarily but is certainly not presented in a main event light - Then they're awkwardly heels for a couple of months when HBK leaves and X-Pac/New Age Outlaws join. - Then they turn face and are very over for about 10 months before Hunter turns heel. And don't get me wrong. They were over. But they were a solid midcard act beneath all the top players at the time. And they had some memorable moments but also some of their stuff either doesn't age well or it just didn't hit at the time. Very fun in video packages but not always that fun week in and week out. Rewatching it makes it clear that Austin/Vince/Rock were the major drivers every week with acts like DX helping out. - They slowly fall apart post Hunter heel turn and then reform at the end of the year as heels but it's mainly to serve Hunter and sputters out again. So it's definitely a run that plays out a bit different in real time as opposed to how they tell the story later on. But to be fair, I think this is true with a lot of the Attitude Era. Certain acts and storylines are put on a pedestal as huge deals that barely lasted a few months and honestly weren't that great. They were definitely a huge part of the show during that time and were a “huge deal.” They main evented shows, opened shows, were featured heavily every week etc. But you’re right that they weren’t the main attraction when HBK left like Austin and Rock were (or the nWo was on the other channel). |
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Oct 12, 2022 9:46:16 GMT -5
Erasing Rick Rude, Tori, and Hornswoggle!
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Oct 12, 2022 9:57:02 GMT -5
I mean the whole history of the group is pretty interesting given the way they're treated historically. I'm not saying a group that lasted 18 months can't matter a ton. They did matter. But I also think part of it is the way they've told the story over and over throughout the years and a lot more folks remember them from their 2006 reunion and video packages as opposed to watching them live. I watched their run a few years ago. Here's how it went: - Top heels for six months where HBK is the clear top guys but Hunter doesn't really serve as a job guy necessarily but is certainly not presented in a main event light - Then they're awkwardly heels for a couple of months when HBK leaves and X-Pac/New Age Outlaws join. - Then they turn face and are very over for about 10 months before Hunter turns heel. And don't get me wrong. They were over. But they were a solid midcard act beneath all the top players at the time. And they had some memorable moments but also some of their stuff either doesn't age well or it just didn't hit at the time. Very fun in video packages but not always that fun week in and week out. Rewatching it makes it clear that Austin/Vince/Rock were the major drivers every week with acts like DX helping out. - They slowly fall apart post Hunter heel turn and then reform at the end of the year as heels but it's mainly to serve Hunter and sputters out again. So it's definitely a run that plays out a bit different in real time as opposed to how they tell the story later on. But to be fair, I think this is true with a lot of the Attitude Era. Certain acts and storylines are put on a pedestal as huge deals that barely lasted a few months and honestly weren't that great. They were definitely a huge part of the show during that time and were a “huge deal.” They main evented shows, opened shows, were featured heavily every week etc. But you’re right that they weren’t the main attraction when HBK left like Austin and Rock were (or the nWo was on the other channel). They were definitely a very over act that did well and sold a lot of merch. But they were not main eventers in the sense that they were the top attraction. And that's totally okay. Being at that level during a boom period is a great place to be. I do think they are often portrayed as more important than Austin/Rock though throughout my lifetime. And in terms of Hunter's career, 2000 is much more important in terms of his legacy than 1998 but one tends to be featured more heavily. |
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Post by celtics543 on Oct 12, 2022 9:58:21 GMT -5
I mean the whole history of the group is pretty interesting given the way they're treated historically. I'm not saying a group that lasted 18 months can't matter a ton. They did matter. But I also think part of it is the way they've told the story over and over throughout the years and a lot more folks remember them from their 2006 reunion and video packages as opposed to watching them live. I watched their run a few years ago. Here's how it went: - Top heels for six months where HBK is the clear top guys but Hunter doesn't really serve as a job guy necessarily but is certainly not presented in a main event light - Then they're awkwardly heels for a couple of months when HBK leaves and X-Pac/New Age Outlaws join. - Then they turn face and are very over for about 10 months before Hunter turns heel. And don't get me wrong. They were over. But they were a solid midcard act beneath all the top players at the time. And they had some memorable moments but also some of their stuff either doesn't age well or it just didn't hit at the time. Very fun in video packages but not always that fun week in and week out. Rewatching it makes it clear that Austin/Vince/Rock were the major drivers every week with acts like DX helping out. - They slowly fall apart post Hunter heel turn and then reform at the end of the year as heels but it's mainly to serve Hunter and sputters out again. So it's definitely a run that plays out a bit different in real time as opposed to how they tell the story later on. But to be fair, I think this is true with a lot of the Attitude Era. Certain acts and storylines are put on a pedestal as huge deals that barely lasted a few months and honestly weren't that great. Thanks for doing this, it's exactly what I'm saying. It was a hugely popular group but boiled down they were a midcard group. HHH was at the IC title level until he left, Outlaws were tag title guys, and Pac was a Euro title guy. Shawn was clearly the main event guy and when he left the group was still popular but HHH wasn't the guy he'd become. It just seems weird that the only main event guy while DX was a thing is now the guy taking a backseat to seemingly everyone else in the group. It's the same reason I have trouble comparing them to the nWo. DX was an upper midcard stable where once in a while they could be in main event angles but they never won the big belt. nWo was a group that had all the top titles and was always in the main event. |
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CMWaters
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Post by CMWaters on Oct 12, 2022 10:00:42 GMT -5
This just reminds me of when I was in high school and there was this one friend of mine that, while still enjoying the main event scene, was more invested in the X-Pac/D'Lo Brown European Title feud.
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Post by lavelleuk22 on Oct 12, 2022 10:15:50 GMT -5
Imagine if this was a guy like Godfather coming out every few years to be like "hey guys I was popular for a year a quarter of a century ago!"
The whole DX thing is very odd. I know everyone is different but I remember me and my schoolfriends thought they were stupidly lame in their prime, and while we obviously were a minority, as it's been said before on this thread D-X was basically a group that was popular for a small period of time (relatively speaking) and mainly for a gesture and an opening match routine. All at a time when acts like a pornstar, hip-hop dancing white guys and all over interesting acts were just as popular. Yet here we are, years later, multiple reunions and video packages and almost propaganda about how important they were.
Yet so many guys who were more popular for a longer period are long since forgotten due to not peaking at the right time in history. Hell Road Dogg does interviews complaining people don't listen to him, yet he's lives on a catchphase for quarter of a century and did nothing before and nothing since. He post-DX run as solo "remember I was in DX?" guy was honestly just sad lol
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Oct 12, 2022 10:18:51 GMT -5
What I've always found kind of funny about DX is that during his run as the leader Triple H was pretty handily the part of it people least cared about. It's not that he wasn't over, he was, but you had X-Pac as the valiant underdog, the New Age Outlaws doing their thing, Chyna being super eye-catching, and then you just had Triple H as the kind of hanger-on to the rest who didn't really actually add anything.
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Post by polarbearpete on Oct 12, 2022 10:24:05 GMT -5
They were definitely a huge part of the show during that time and were a “huge deal.” They main evented shows, opened shows, were featured heavily every week etc. But you’re right that they weren’t the main attraction when HBK left like Austin and Rock were (or the nWo was on the other channel). They were definitely a very over act that did well and sold a lot of merch. But they were not main eventers in the sense that they were the top attraction. And that's totally okay. Being at that level during a boom period is a great place to be. I do think they are often portrayed as more important than Austin/Rock though throughout my lifetime. And in terms of Hunter's career, 2000 is much more important in terms of his legacy than 1998 but one tends to be featured more heavily. They were the top attraction in late 1997 until Austin became the man at Mania 14. I’ve never gotten the sense that they’re portrayed as more important than Austin/Rock in 1998-2000, though. They did become the top attraction again during their “reunion” when it was just Triple H and Shawn in 2006. |
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Oct 12, 2022 10:26:44 GMT -5
HHH is a WAY bigger star than HBK.
Honestly Shawn Michaels could be removed from WWE history and not much is lost.
His importance has always been over stated.
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Post by polarbearpete on Oct 12, 2022 10:34:44 GMT -5
HHH is a WAY bigger star than HBK. Honestly Shawn Michaels could be removed from WWE history and not much is lost. His importance has always been over stated. In what metric would you say he’s a bigger star? And are you saying that just because Triple H was on top when HBK was gone and wrestling was at its peak? |
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Oct 12, 2022 10:37:03 GMT -5
HHH is a WAY bigger star than HBK. Honestly Shawn Michaels could be removed from WWE history and not much is lost. His importance has always been over stated. In what metric would you say he’s a bigger star? And are you saying that just because Triple H was on top when HBK was gone and wrestling was at its peak? Look at merchandise and buyrates. HBK was pretty much never a draw. |
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Oct 12, 2022 10:37:15 GMT -5
Honestly Shawn Michaels could be removed from WWE history and not much is lost. I mean right off the top of my head you would be removing the establishment of Hell in a Cell, Ladder, Iron Man, and Elimination Chamber matches as major deals, the rise of DX (which would then snowball into Evolution and Legacy and arguably AEW and...), the Austin / Tyson angle that was a gigantic part of propelling WWF to beating WCW, the Montreal Screwjob, Ric Flair's sendoff, the matches that arguably cemented shifting Undertaker's Streak from an interesting curiosity to a legitimate high point of the show each year that led to it being the launching point for Brock going from Big Deal to WWE's Final Boss... Like I'd be hardpressed to think of many people who wrestling history would be more altered by removing them from it. |
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Oct 12, 2022 10:38:29 GMT -5
Honestly Shawn Michaels could be removed from WWE history and not much is lost. I mean right off the top of my head you would be removing the establishment of Hell in a Cell, Ladder, Iron Man, and Elimination Chamber matches as major deals, the rise of DX (which would then snowball into Evolution and Legacy and arguably AEW and...), the Austin / Tyson angle that was a gigantic part of propelling WWF to beating WCW, the Montreal Screwjob, Ric Flair's sendoff, the matches that arguably cemented shifting Undertaker's Streak from an interesting curiosity to a legitimate high point of the show each year that led to it being the launching point for Brock going from Big Deal to WWE's Final Boss... Like I'd be hardpressed to think of many people who wrestling history would be more altered by removing them from it. HBK himself wasn't integral to any of those moments. Anyone could have filled his spot. |
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Oct 12, 2022 10:43:05 GMT -5
I mean right off the top of my head you would be removing the establishment of Hell in a Cell, Ladder, Iron Man, and Elimination Chamber matches as major deals, the rise of DX (which would then snowball into Evolution and Legacy and arguably AEW and...), the Austin / Tyson angle that was a gigantic part of propelling WWF to beating WCW, the Montreal Screwjob, Ric Flair's sendoff, the matches that arguably cemented shifting Undertaker's Streak from an interesting curiosity to a legitimate high point of the show each year that led to it being the launching point for Brock going from Big Deal to WWE's Final Boss... Like I'd be hardpressed to think of many people who wrestling history would be more altered by removing them from it. HBK himself wasn't integral to any of those moments. Anyone could have filled his spot. Okay, let's say WrestleMania 10's ladder match is Razor Ramon vs. IRS. Do you genuinely see it being as much of a praised all time classic match that gets a mythical air around it and propels ladder matches to being so beloved that there are eventually two separate PPVs entirely built around it? Do you think the Mania 25 match could've gotten the same level of praise if it were Undertaker vs. JBL? |
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Post by polarbearpete on Oct 12, 2022 10:47:10 GMT -5
I mean right off the top of my head you would be removing the establishment of Hell in a Cell, Ladder, Iron Man, and Elimination Chamber matches as major deals, the rise of DX (which would then snowball into Evolution and Legacy and arguably AEW and...), the Austin / Tyson angle that was a gigantic part of propelling WWF to beating WCW, the Montreal Screwjob, Ric Flair's sendoff, the matches that arguably cemented shifting Undertaker's Streak from an interesting curiosity to a legitimate high point of the show each year that led to it being the launching point for Brock going from Big Deal to WWE's Final Boss... Like I'd be hardpressed to think of many people who wrestling history would be more altered by removing them from it. HBK himself wasn't integral to any of those moments. Anyone could have filled his spot. Lol, that’s completely not true. It was the level of his in-ring greatness that led to the Ladder match and Hell in a Cell matches being established as something that should be done again. He was directly responsible and integral for the rise of dX , so not sure how you’d put someone else in that spot when at the time Hunter was a mid card nobody. Then in his later career, it’s his mic work and in-ring prowess that was integral to the Ric Flair send-off and Taker streak angles playing so well. |
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Post by polarbearpete on Oct 12, 2022 10:50:28 GMT -5
In what metric would you say he’s a bigger star? And are you saying that just because Triple H was on top when HBK was gone and wrestling was at its peak? Look at merchandise and buyrates. HBK was pretty much never a draw. Triple H was never a huge draw above and beyond those that were on top in the same era (Rock and Austin especially) if you’re looking at it from that angle. Though he did move the needle some in his later career. Triple H might be more mainstream though, I’d agree with that. Mostly because he was on top when wrestling was at its peak, and is now the face of the company from a corporate perspective. |
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