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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Oct 12, 2022 10:51:31 GMT -5
HBK himself wasn't integral to any of those moments. Anyone could have filled his spot. Lol, that’s completely not true. It was the level of his in-ring greatness that led to the Ladder match and Hell in a Cell matches being established as something that should be done again. He was directly responsible and integral for the rise of dX , so not sure how you’d put someone else in that spot when at the time Hunter was a mid card nobody. Then in his later career, it’s his mic work and in-ring prowess that was integral to the Ric Flair send-off and Taker streak angles playing so well. In ring greatness is subjective.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Oct 12, 2022 11:04:58 GMT -5
Lol, that’s completely not true. It was the level of his in-ring greatness that led to the Ladder match and Hell in a Cell matches being established as something that should be done again. He was directly responsible and integral for the rise of dX , so not sure how you’d put someone else in that spot when at the time Hunter was a mid card nobody. Then in his later career, it’s his mic work and in-ring prowess that was integral to the Ric Flair send-off and Taker streak angles playing so well. In ring greatness is subjective. Absolutely it is, for instance I for one will be the first to say the Mania 12 main event sucks ass, but at least in the popular consciousness a lot of those matches and moments really truly worked and put certain gimmicks and performers and storylines on the map. You could absolutely hate the Mania 25 match and that's your right but it'd still be hard to argue against saying that it's a massively beloved match that's had a ton of legacy and lasting impact on the industry.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Oct 12, 2022 11:35:35 GMT -5
Shawn was only leader for 6 months and it was at a time when business hadn't started booming yet.
HHH became leader after Wrestlemania 14 when ratings shot way up so more people watched him as the leader.
And this is anecdotal but when I was a little kid and we were all running around yelling suck it in the playground we were definitely mimicking the HHH/Chyna/Outlaws/X-Pac version, not the HBK/HHH/Chyna/Rude heel version. I think the post-Wrestlemania 14 version was definitely much more popular.
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No Longer a Produceman
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Post by No Longer a Produceman on Oct 12, 2022 12:03:09 GMT -5
HHH is a WAY bigger star than HBK. Honestly Shawn Michaels could be removed from WWE history and not much is lost. His importance has always been over stated.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2022 12:04:04 GMT -5
Weird thing is I was convinced when X-Pac was brought in that he was supposed to be the new leader
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Oct 12, 2022 12:10:01 GMT -5
HHH is a WAY bigger star than HBK. Honestly Shawn Michaels could be removed from WWE history and not much is lost. His importance has always been over stated. Look at buyrates, attendance, ratings and merch sales. HBK is the most over pushed star in WWE.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2022 12:15:11 GMT -5
HBK himself wasn't integral to any of those moments. Anyone could have filled his spot. Okay, let's say WrestleMania 10's ladder match is Razor Ramon vs. IRS. Do you genuinely see it being as much of a praised all time classic match that gets a mythical air around it and propels ladder matches to being so beloved that there are eventually two separate PPVs entirely built around it? Do you think the Mania 25 match could've gotten the same level of praise if it were Undertaker vs. JBL? To be honest, "Remove HBK from WWE History and nothing changes" is probably the wildest take I've ever seen on here.
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Post by joeiscool on Oct 12, 2022 12:25:43 GMT -5
They were definitely a huge part of the show during that time and were a “huge deal.” They main evented shows, opened shows, were featured heavily every week etc. But you’re right that they weren’t the main attraction when HBK left like Austin and Rock were (or the nWo was on the other channel). They were definitely a very over act that did well and sold a lot of merch. But they were not main eventers in the sense that they were the top attraction. And that's totally okay. Being at that level during a boom period is a great place to be. I do think they are often portrayed as more important than Austin/Rock though throughout my lifetime. And in terms of Hunter's career, 2000 is much more important in terms of his legacy than 1998 but one tends to be featured more heavily. I think it is more the case that DX are the people that are accessible. If you are doing recaps and what not you're going to lean on the people who are still available to talk. Realistically DX was probably only less popular than Austin and The Rock when they were around. It's not like they are hyping up Gil Berg or something
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Post by Perd on Oct 12, 2022 12:33:00 GMT -5
Triple H has always been a huge member.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Oct 12, 2022 12:35:38 GMT -5
Although I think GiMM is over stating how little Shawn contributed, I think he is absolutely right about who the bigger star is between him and Hunter
Triple H main evented the highest drawing Mania that didn't have a part time main eventer in the last match.
Actually I just Googled this and Shawn drew a bigger one with Cena at 23. Did Shawn ever draw a B show rate as high as Backlash 2000 though?
Well, I still think the point stands, and it is basically because Shawn wasn't fit to work during the industry's hottest period. It isn't really even a critique of Shawn so much as a statement about the business at the time each guy was peaking
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Post by xCompackx on Oct 12, 2022 12:40:14 GMT -5
Triple H has always been a huge member. He's got one too, apparently.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Oct 12, 2022 12:52:15 GMT -5
My mom only knows who Hulk Hogan, Macho Man, and John Cena are if that helps anyone in this thread.
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Post by thecrusherwi on Oct 12, 2022 12:57:09 GMT -5
HBK himself wasn't integral to any of those moments. Anyone could have filled his spot. Okay, let's say WrestleMania 10's ladder match is Razor Ramon vs. IRS. Do you genuinely see it being as much of a praised all time classic match that gets a mythical air around it and propels ladder matches to being so beloved that there are eventually two separate PPVs entirely built around it? Do you think the Mania 25 match could've gotten the same level of praise if it were Undertaker vs. JBL? You don't think a clip of an incredibly sweaty IRS holding Razor in a chinlock next to a ladder would be replayed on nearly every WrestleMania highlight package for the next 30 years like HBK's big splash has been?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2022 13:12:49 GMT -5
Okay, let's say WrestleMania 10's ladder match is Razor Ramon vs. IRS. Do you genuinely see it being as much of a praised all time classic match that gets a mythical air around it and propels ladder matches to being so beloved that there are eventually two separate PPVs entirely built around it? Do you think the Mania 25 match could've gotten the same level of praise if it were Undertaker vs. JBL? You don't think a clip of an incredibly sweaty IRS holding Razor in a chinlock next to a ladder would be replayed on nearly every WrestleMania highlight package for the next 30 years like HBK's big splash has been? "I'm sorry, I love you."
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Post by Zombie Mod is not a ghoul. on Oct 12, 2022 13:36:44 GMT -5
Triple H has always been a huge member. He's got one too, apparently. only thanks to bluechew recently according to certain parts of the internet
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Post by Hulkshi Tanahashi on Oct 12, 2022 13:50:13 GMT -5
Triple H using his power to put himself over!? Surely you jest!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2022 15:07:42 GMT -5
He's got one too, apparently. only thanks to bluechew recently according to certain parts of the internet I mean it is why Stephanie was on hiatus
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Post by Mid-Carder on Oct 12, 2022 15:52:30 GMT -5
Okay, let's say WrestleMania 10's ladder match is Razor Ramon vs. IRS. Do you genuinely see it being as much of a praised all time classic match that gets a mythical air around it and propels ladder matches to being so beloved that there are eventually two separate PPVs entirely built around it? Do you think the Mania 25 match could've gotten the same level of praise if it were Undertaker vs. JBL? To be honest, "Remove HBK from WWE History and nothing changes" is probably the wildest take I've ever seen on here. Particularly when used in favour of TRIPLE H, who for a long time was actively detrimental to WWE
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2022 16:00:20 GMT -5
A lot of HBK discussion lately. 😂
You ask most of the wrestlers in WWE today who inspired them to become wrestlers and they'll probably say HBK is one of them, that's all I know. His influence is all over the product (whether that's a good thing or not is up to you)
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Post by J is Justice on Oct 12, 2022 16:51:21 GMT -5
Triple H has always been a huge member. He's got one too, apparently.
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