nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,723
|
Post by nisidhe on Apr 4, 2023 9:27:42 GMT -5
I don't see it hurting AEW -at all - especially after last night.
Compare the self-imposed hostage situation last night with even the crowd on Dark Frickin' Elevation, and it becomes clear what sells each. Nostalgia for WWE's past greatness can only keep either those with no other experience with pro wrestling, and might bring on a few curious casuals interested in celebrity culture. Even that nostalgia will only carry it for so long, and there are very few viewers left who remember wrestling in the 1980s, let alone the Bruno years.
AEW is for wrestling fans in general and can build its audience with its own presentation and its own product. Moreover, it offers crossover within the wrestling sphere, including New Japan and a slowly reviving BritWres scene, such that it encourages broadening one's experience.
If you care about the craft more than making gobs and gobs of money, it has long made sense to stay off the WWE track as long as possible. WWE has been where you make your money after you've bumped and ground and made your mark on the biz. This may still be the case to an extent, but WWE is now going to have to compete strongly on pay, and quite probably on creative control, to keep its top talents on side and to draw new ones. And Vince won't have the everlasting checkbook to do that, especially after he and/or his new handlers have hacked the bone once more.
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 4, 2023 10:13:02 GMT -5
Well if rumors are to be believed, Vince being back could be a deterrent for a bunch of talent.
While thCody is an anomaly in a lot of ways because the AEW crowds had rejected him as a face but WWE was in a unique position where they needed someone to be viewed as a hero. How Mania and Raw went notwithstanding I think there was a uniqueness to Cody's case.
That's not to say people won't go to WWE or vice versa, or that people won't be successful, but I don't think Cody either positive or negative is a great example
|
|
|
Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Apr 4, 2023 10:50:55 GMT -5
If Vince is back permanently, this is Tony’s time to shine. Capitalize on it. Provide the best product you can in the same spirit that WWE’s capitalized the last six months or whatever.
I’m giving Dynamite a chance but with everything going on, yup, I’m considering my first break from wrestling in about a decade.
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on Apr 4, 2023 11:13:06 GMT -5
Jay White likely AEW-bound (not an effect of the sale, but an effect of Vince creeping back in).
|
|
The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,294
Member is Online
|
Post by The Ichi on Apr 4, 2023 11:32:44 GMT -5
Jay White likely AEW-bound (not an effect of the sale, but an effect of Vince creeping back in). Would be a good fourth man for team Elite if Matt isn't healthy by then.
|
|
|
Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 4, 2023 11:35:42 GMT -5
The problem isn't in my mind if 99% of the AEW roster would be cool with that push; it's that Cody was the top 1% of the AEW in terms of star profile. I'm sure 99% of the AEW roster would love to main event a Wrestlemania at all, title win or not, but this isn't the push they'd have offered Sammy Guevara. Cody's ceilign is going to be pretty informative of what anyone else can get not because that's where they can get too, but because there's really no way to think they aren't going to come in significantly lower. Cody is in a higher position in WWE than he was in AEW. He’s in the top 1% of WWE right now as well. I really don’t think Cody losing at Mania will have a huge effect on decisions of talent. Now if Vince continues to meddle in creative and be more hands on then I think that could have the bigger effect on certain talent wanting to be there (mostly those that aren’t the huge stars of AEW). Rumors were that Jay White was not interested in WWE if Vince was going to be coming back to creative, and not sure if he signed already with either company but I’d guess he’s ticketed for AEW if he still has the option. I'd argue that Cody Rhodes arc-wise right now is in literally the exact same place he was in AEW in terms of showing up, doing a big drama feud, and then going for the title in a losing effort; he just didn't orchestrate that title loss as part of a self-inflicted step down the card. But my point there was less that Cody's place sucks, but more that you'd said 99% of AEW would be fine with Cody's push and I was arguing that 99% of AEW is not under any circumstances getting that push, so the question would be what a Sammy Guevara would be getting underneath that, and where Cody settles in is going to be the much starker question because if Cody gets X, anyone else can only get some amount less of X.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2023 11:43:27 GMT -5
Cody is in a higher position in WWE than he was in AEW. He’s in the top 1% of WWE right now as well. I really don’t think Cody losing at Mania will have a huge effect on decisions of talent. Now if Vince continues to meddle in creative and be more hands on then I think that could have the bigger effect on certain talent wanting to be there (mostly those that aren’t the huge stars of AEW). Rumors were that Jay White was not interested in WWE if Vince was going to be coming back to creative, and not sure if he signed already with either company but I’d guess he’s ticketed for AEW if he still has the option. I'd argue that Cody Rhodes arc-wise right now is in literally the exact same place he was in AEW in terms of showing up, doing a big drama feud, and then going for the title in a losing effort; he just didn't orchestrate that title loss as part of a self-inflicted step down the card. But my point there was less that Cody's place sucks, but more that you'd said 99% of AEW would be fine with Cody's push and I was arguing that 99% of AEW is not under any circumstances getting that push, so the question would be what a Sammy Guevara would be getting underneath that, and where Cody settles in is going to be the much starker question because if Cody gets X, anyone else can only get some amount less of X. It is the main event of WrestleMania...There is literally no bigger spot in professional wrestling from any measure money, ratings, or otherwise...To say Cody has ever been in a similar or greater position is completely inaccurate no matter the outcome of the match. If that is the top of "what might be" for a wrestler thinking about making the jump then they have a freakin amazing window of opportunity.
|
|
|
Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 4, 2023 11:44:43 GMT -5
I'd argue that Cody Rhodes arc-wise right now is in literally the exact same place he was in AEW in terms of showing up, doing a big drama feud, and then going for the title in a losing effort; he just didn't orchestrate that title loss as part of a self-inflicted step down the card. But my point there was less that Cody's place sucks, but more that you'd said 99% of AEW would be fine with Cody's push and I was arguing that 99% of AEW is not under any circumstances getting that push, so the question would be what a Sammy Guevara would be getting underneath that, and where Cody settles in is going to be the much starker question because if Cody gets X, anyone else can only get some amount less of X. It is the main event of WrestleMania...There is literally no bigger spot in professional wrestling from any measure money, ratings, or otherwise...To say Cody has ever been in a similar or greater position is completely inaccurate no matter the outcome of the match. If that is the top of "what might be" for a wrestler thinking about making the jump then they have a freakin amazing window of opportunity. I'm talking about card placement and the stories being told right now. Like 1:1 completely the exact same narrative path up the card, not anything else. Cody is in the exact same narrative spot as of today that he was when he lost the Jericho match and started the MJF feud.
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on Apr 4, 2023 12:01:16 GMT -5
Cody is in a higher position in WWE than he was in AEW. He’s in the top 1% of WWE right now as well. I really don’t think Cody losing at Mania will have a huge effect on decisions of talent. Now if Vince continues to meddle in creative and be more hands on then I think that could have the bigger effect on certain talent wanting to be there (mostly those that aren’t the huge stars of AEW). Rumors were that Jay White was not interested in WWE if Vince was going to be coming back to creative, and not sure if he signed already with either company but I’d guess he’s ticketed for AEW if he still has the option. I'd argue that Cody Rhodes arc-wise right now is in literally the exact same place he was in AEW in terms of showing up, doing a big drama feud, and then going for the title in a losing effort; he just didn't orchestrate that title loss as part of a self-inflicted step down the card. But my point there was less that Cody's place sucks, but more that you'd said 99% of AEW would be fine with Cody's push and I was arguing that 99% of AEW is not under any circumstances getting that push, so the question would be what a Sammy Guevara would be getting underneath that, and where Cody settles in is going to be the much starker question because if Cody gets X, anyone else can only get some amount less of X. Sure I was meaning more that he’s in a better position than when he left AEW, which is what I’d imagine many of those looking to leave would be concerned about. Vince taking over creative full time would be way more of a deterrent than Cody losing at Mania.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2023 12:13:05 GMT -5
I sometimes have a hard time coalescing all of my thoughts together, but here goes
I don't think Tony should care. I know he wants to act like this is WWF/WCW all over again, but it's not. AEW is still the #2, and that will not be changing for a long time, if ever.
And you know what? There's nothing wrong with that. I get that everyone wants to be the best and be number one and all that, but AEW is profitable. AEW is making WarnerDiscovery happy. AEW has built a promotion based off what they do differently, and they need to stick with that.
Case in point, while AEW has a lot of former WWE talent (Danielson, Moxley, Claudio, Adam Cole, Matt Hardy, Keith Lee, Swerve... hell, you could argue that Tony got his pick of the litter of most of Hunter's prime NXT), I think Orange Cassidy, who has never worked for the WWE to my knowledge, is arguably their hottest act. The champ has never worked for a major promotion prior to AEW, etc.
AEW needs to keep doing what they've been doing, and keep letting the WWE cut its nose off to spite its face.
|
|
r.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bye
Posts: 16,465
|
Post by r. on Apr 4, 2023 12:26:10 GMT -5
If anything the booking of Cody last night might make some AEW wrestlers think twice before deciding to go to WWE. The idea of WWE booking Hangman Page makes my brain hurts. He'd be Adam Hogan; Midcard hell winning his debut then losing every match in a 10-month-long feud with one of the bloodline.
|
|
xxshoyuweeniexx
King Koopa
Going Big and Saying That
Posts: 10,112
Member is Online
|
Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Apr 4, 2023 12:32:38 GMT -5
Miro texting Tony like: hey bighead :-)
|
|
Lupin the Third
Patti Mayonnaise
I'm sorry.....I love you. *boot to the head*--3rd most culpable in the jixing of NXT, D'oh!
Join the Dark Order....
Posts: 36,325
|
Post by Lupin the Third on Apr 4, 2023 12:55:48 GMT -5
If anything the booking of Cody last night might make some AEW wrestlers think twice before deciding to go to WWE. The idea of WWE booking Hangman Page makes my brain hurts. *Insert clip of Trunks Internal Screaming for my thoughts.*
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 4, 2023 13:38:10 GMT -5
I sometimes have a hard time coalescing all of my thoughts together, but here goes I don't think Tony should care. I know he wants to act like this is WWF/WCW all over again, but it's not. AEW is still the #2, and that will not be changing for a long time, if ever. And you know what? There's nothing wrong with that. I get that everyone wants to be the best and be number one and all that, but AEW is profitable. AEW is making WarnerDiscovery happy. AEW has built a promotion based off what they do differently, and they need to stick with that. Case in point, while AEW has a lot of former WWE talent (Danielson, Moxley, Claudio, Adam Col e, Matt Hardy, Keith Lee, Swerve... hell, you could argue that Tony got his pick of the litter of most of Hunter's prime NXT), I think Orange Cassidy, who has never worked for the WWE to my knowledge, is arguably their hottest act. The champ has never worked for a major promotion prior to AEW, etc. AEW needs to keep doing what they've been doing, and keep letting the WWE cut its nose off to spite its face. I think it's worth mentioning that when AEW started he flat out said WWE is gonna act like this is a war so let's have fun with it. I legit think half of what he and Tony (and others say at times) is legit just having fun. Not defending it but having listened to a lot of Tony Khan interviews legit the only time I think he was actually pissed was when WWE was contacting workers under contract to get released and scheduling Clash at the Castle on All Out weekend (and in several interviews Tony has flat out admitted that he doesn't want to go head to head with WWE) So I am agreeing with you with the overall point that AEW is a very very strong number 2. Like I said in another thread, I do think at times fans may under appreciate the level AEW is at, and at the rate their brand is growing. Its not to where WWE is, and in all honesty won't come close to that for a LONG time (at least in terms of the spectactle) but to be at the level they are is in a lot of ways insane... and from all accounts Jeff Jarrett and Jon Moxley have really helped with touring business as well (which was a big reason for some ticket struggles). AEW being a solid number 2 that is growing and getting a lot of support that keeps getting more money? What more can you ask for?
|
|
markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,277
|
Post by markymark on Apr 4, 2023 14:12:49 GMT -5
The effect on AEW would also depend of what TK tweets, because tweets like this aged like milk
This was days before Brawl Out happened
|
|
nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,723
|
Post by nisidhe on Apr 4, 2023 14:52:41 GMT -5
The effect on AEW would also depend of what TK tweets, because tweets like this aged like milk This was days before Brawl Out happened
TK is likely going to be very careful in what he posts on social media from here on out. He needs to keep everyone on side (a far easier task now, of course, but still) and to shore up harmony in the locker room. He can also do with at least a couple people on the booking team to lighten his load, especially if there are any WWE talents he might want to sign from those now reportedly disaffected by developments and planning not to renew with WWE. If Trips is gone, I'd imagine most of the NXT Golden Years talents will be looking for the exits if Vince hasn't taken a liking to them.
|
|
dbsot
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 597
|
Post by dbsot on Apr 4, 2023 15:04:22 GMT -5
So in the past 36 hours there has been: - -Cody (AEW's biggest defector) losing at WM and getting destroyed by Brock Lesnar
- WWE fans being angry that Vince is back leading creative
- Reports of wrestlers possibly asking for their release if Vince stays as the head of creative
- Cryptic tweets from Asuka, Bayley and Drew Mac
- Fightful saying they are about to put out their biggest report since Brawl Out
The wrestling world changes quickly, that is for sure.
TK did set up a really good show for tomorrow, but it may be smart to pull out a big gun (not Punk), if he has one. Now more then ever, would be a good time to push the momentum in AEW's favor.
|
|
Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 73,601
Member is Online
|
Post by Chiral on Apr 4, 2023 16:02:31 GMT -5
If anything the booking of Cody last night might make some AEW wrestlers think twice before deciding to go to WWE. The idea of WWE booking Hangman Page makes my brain hurts. *Hangman spraypaints COWBOY POOPY on the Bloodline's car en route to losing to Reigns at Extreme Rules*
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2023 16:26:00 GMT -5
Here's another thing - unless he gets ROH a real, honest to God TV deal that's something good, he needs to chill on getting big name talent.
Yeah, Drew Mac in AEW WOULD be cool, but where's he gonna fit in? The upper card is stacked to the gills as it is, and I'd make the arguments that some acts have cooled off massively just due to the abundance of talent and not enough hours in the week, like Swerve and Keith Lee.
I'd be telling Punk to either sign a contract that makes him pay a severe penalty if he pulls another MuffinGate, or just telling him to f*** off altogether, though.
Arguably more than ever, TK is looking like the greener pasture so maybe it's time he started growing pair and standing up to talent like Punk, Miro, and Andrade that want to cause problems.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2023 16:38:12 GMT -5
Here's another thing - unless he gets ROH a real, honest to God TV deal that's something good, he needs to chill on getting big name talent. Yeah, Drew Mac in AEW WOULD be cool, but where's he gonna fit in? The upper card is stacked to the gills as it is, and I'd make the arguments that some acts have cooled off massively just due to the abundance of talent and not enough hours in the week, like Swerve and Keith Lee. I'd be telling Punk to either sign a contract that makes him pay a severe penalty if he pulls another MuffinGate, or just telling him to f*** off altogether, though. Arguably more than ever, TK is looking like the greener pasture so maybe it's time he started growing pair and standing up to talent like Punk, Miro, and Andrade that want to cause problems. This! Absolutely time for him to stand up and embrace his alternative and continue to push the people that are constantly bringing them goodwill through all of the constant drama. WWE's biggest issue was creating so many B+ players over the last few decades instead of treating their talent like they are the most important aspect of their company... This is something AEW excels at when done right...
|
|