Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,126
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 12, 2023 16:12:40 GMT -5
There are some things he says that I agree with... however, Bret, the old way is not coming back. A big reason for that is the internet. Kayfabe, for better or worse, is dead. They try to keep some semblance of it sometimes, but it just can't go back to how it used to be. I wouldn't presume to teach Bret anything about wrestling history, I am sure he knows his shit, so he probably already knows that Lou Thesz and Karl Gotch both shit all over Harley Race and his highspots. That's not a hyperbolic created example, this is a thing that genuinely happened. Gotch also shit on Tiger Mask and Dynamite Kid. They were both wrong. Bret is also wrong.
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 73,748
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Post by Chiral on Apr 12, 2023 16:13:34 GMT -5
Old wrestle dudes when they encounter leg slaps or that dive to the outside and everyone catches spot
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Apr 12, 2023 16:16:32 GMT -5
Adore the fact modern wrestlers go out of their way to put Bret on a pedestal and he uses to the vantage point to piss all over them.
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Post by Jacy Jayne Atomic Dog AMV on Apr 12, 2023 16:17:10 GMT -5
Old wrestle dudes when they encounter leg slaps or that dive to the outside and everyone catches spot Old wrestle dudes when someone takes one hit from a wallet chain and dies instantly
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john84
Fry's dog Seymour
Proud Father of 3 :)
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Member is Online
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Post by john84 on Apr 12, 2023 16:20:09 GMT -5
Old wrestle dudes when they encounter leg slaps or that dive to the outside and everyone catches spot Bret as the modern wrestlers who idolise him get upset over his comments on modern wrestling
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Post by Red Mage Riot on Apr 12, 2023 16:21:07 GMT -5
I would rather watch today's wrestling on a 24 hour loop, than 15 minutes of Don Muraco and Dino Bravo exchanging sweaty bearhugs and calling it "psychology".
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Eunös ✈
Dalek
Duck Feet Expert
Tolerated, just not practically liked.
Posts: 59,201
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Post by Eunös ✈ on Apr 12, 2023 16:27:30 GMT -5
Bret is one of my all time favourites.
But I can't deny he does sometimes come across as an old man yelling at a cloud.
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john84
Fry's dog Seymour
Proud Father of 3 :)
Posts: 23,963
Member is Online
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Post by john84 on Apr 12, 2023 16:28:34 GMT -5
Bret is one of my all time favourites. But I can't deny he does sometimes come across as an old man yelling at a cloud.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,124
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Post by tafkaga on Apr 12, 2023 16:57:57 GMT -5
I would rather watch today's wrestling on a 24 hour loop, than 15 minutes of Don Muraco and Dino Bravo exchanging sweaty bearhugs and calling it "psychology". There's some middle ground there bro.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2023 17:03:53 GMT -5
Bret’s always been one of my favorites and I’ve always said that if anyone has ever had a right to be bitter, it’s definitely him, but he’s going full on “old man yells at cloud” here.
The audience doesn’t want what it did in Stu’s day; they don’t even want what they did in Bret’s day. I always try to give him some leeway because of his stroke, but the dude has to realize that the acrobatic style was largely popularized in the US by Owen and other Hart Dungeon alumni.
As much as Bret always prided himself on being a safe worker, I’m also little surprised he hasn’t realized that a properly executed thigh-slap is a hell of a lot safer than a full-on mule kick to the head.
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Post by MrElijah on Apr 12, 2023 17:04:17 GMT -5
There are some things he says that I agree with... however, Bret, the old way is not coming back. A big reason for that is the internet. Kayfabe, for better or worse, is dead. They try to keep some semblance of it sometimes, but it just can't go back to how it used to be. I wouldn't presume to teach Bret anything about wrestling history, I am sure he knows his shit, so he probably already knows that Lou Thesz and Karl Gotch both shit all over Harley Race and his highspots. That's not a hyperbolic created example, this is a thing that genuinely happened. Gotch also shit on Tiger Mask and Dynamite Kid. They were both wrong. Bret is also wrong. Wrestling is such of a subjective beast of chaos. Gotch shits on TM1, IIRC, who he trained but TM1 while doing the high flying stuff still used his Martial Arts and Dynamite still used those dungeon & British catch holds to keep it grounded. Basically wrestling needs to follow what Misawa said: do what you want in the ring, just make it fit and make sense I'm the match.
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tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
Posts: 2,865
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Post by tirtefaa on Apr 12, 2023 17:16:06 GMT -5
if anyone has ever had a right to be bitter, it’s definitely him I could think of a ton of other people who weren't given half as many opportunities as Bret, who suffered far more than he did. With the exception of losing Owen, there just comes a point where you have to move on, whether it was the Screwjob, WCW mismanagement or Goldberg. There's a lot of enjoy about reflecting on, which is a shame I don't see that more often from him. As far as what Bret is talking about here, I agree with him to an extent, but all forms of entertainment evolve, and wrestling NEEDS to evolve in order to survive. At the end of the day, it's just entertainment. It doesn't matter how silly it gets as long as people are buying tickets.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,589
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Post by Bo Rida on Apr 12, 2023 17:19:11 GMT -5
To me it doesn't matter if it's OTT presentation, a unique comedy set-up or old guys in black trunks exchanging headlocks the important thing is the match has its own logic nothing takes you out of what you're watching.
I rarely notice leg slapping, in fact I often go the other way and think a lot of strikes are too brutal and should end a match sooner. Kenoh Vs Nakajima's kicks come to mind but it's the same in many companies, the westlers seem to forget it's supposed to be fake. Sheamus will often post a pic of the welts on his body.
I also think the margin for error is lower when ultra serious, something unrealistic in Bloodsport stands out more.
Agree on the waiting for the dives though, keep the pace up and film it right and it works but often it takes too long. Or the contact is weak but everyone falls over anyway. Even there though I think many are looking to improve things. Darby and Mike Bailey often hit much quicker and others are the later and others are doing more jockeying for position. Or it'll be countered, dodged or caught more often.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,988
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Post by chazraps on Apr 12, 2023 17:22:19 GMT -5
Bret in print always reads different than hearing the actual audio so I feel like there maybe some context missing here.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 12, 2023 17:26:13 GMT -5
There are some things he says that I agree with... however, Bret, the old way is not coming back. A big reason for that is the internet. Kayfabe, for better or worse, is dead. They try to keep some semblance of it sometimes, but it just can't go back to how it used to be. Kayfabe was always just a wink and a nod at the audience... even Cornette ranting how everyone thought it was real in the 70s! is incorrect... people knew it was predetermined in like the 40s and 50's. Kayfabe should be upheld during the show in a we don't mention it's pre-determined or scripted or any of that on the show proper... but other than that I don't really care. Bret’s always been one of my favorites and I’ve always said that if anyone has ever had a right to be bitter, it’s definitely him, but he’s going full on “old man yells at cloud” here. The audience doesn’t want what it did in Stu’s day; they don’t even want what they did in Bret’s day. I always try to give him some leeway because of his stroke, but the dude has to realize that the acrobatic style was largely popularized in the US by Owen and other Hart Dungeon alumni. As much as Bret always prided himself on being a safe worker, I’m also little surprised he hasn’t realized that a properly executed thigh-slap is a hell of a lot safer than a full-on mule kick to the head. I wouldn't be surprised if part of his hatred of Thigh slaps is one of the people that made it popular was Shawn.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2023 17:50:45 GMT -5
There are some things he says that I agree with... however, Bret, the old way is not coming back. A big reason for that is the internet. Kayfabe, for better or worse, is dead. They try to keep some semblance of it sometimes, but it just can't go back to how it used to be. I wouldn't presume to teach Bret anything about wrestling history, I am sure he knows his shit, so he probably already knows that Lou Thesz and Karl Gotch both shit all over Harley Race and his highspots. That's not a hyperbolic created example, this is a thing that genuinely happened. Gotch also shit on Tiger Mask and Dynamite Kid. They were both wrong. Bret is also wrong. It's funny but it came up with Cornette about how much wrestling history Bret knows and he basically said that Bret had tunnel vision in regards to promotions and territories he wasn't in. He knew next to nothing about NWA/WCW when he was in WWF and not much outside of Stampede during his territory days.
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Post by SkullTrauma on Apr 12, 2023 17:53:36 GMT -5
he's not wrong. modern wrestling is shit. all of it.
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Post by sdoyle7798 on Apr 12, 2023 17:54:08 GMT -5
Least Bret hasn't started making comments about the Japanese wrestlers in the same way that Cornette does. My only real issue with what Bret said there is about ''pretend to be real'' thing because that horse bolted years, well decades ago now, ago. I’m old, so I prefer the more realistic, almost sports based presentation. But I have no hate for current styles. I get that things change. I mean, even during the “realistic” times, we had shit like Hulk ups and whatever the Warriors power up thing was called.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Apr 12, 2023 18:11:50 GMT -5
Sunglasses and sparklers, what a load of crap.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 12, 2023 18:26:14 GMT -5
It's almost like 2023 is a different world than the 1970s
Shocked Pikachu face
By the way Bret (and JR) why don't you f***ing try ballet if it's such a wussy thing to do, you wouldn't last a day
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