Bret hart on todays wrestling: Pathetic

[Milkman Norm]

It's interesting too that Bret is talking about what Stu used to book, since that was mostly big dudes whaling on each other to amuse the ranchers & cowboys. It was Bruce Hart who convinced his dad to book workers like Dynamite & other smaller guys. And that was what, 45 years ago?

[A Platypus Rave]

Apr 13, 2023 19:37:39 GMT -5 This Player Hating Mothman said:

"I just think the old kind of wrestling is sorely missed by a lot of people. It's like, you know, if the old wrestling was around, like my dad's wrestling, we'd come see it kind of thing."

This is always where the crux of the old man cloud-yelling falls and it's always so wrong. The world has moved on from what was popular decades ago, and the people who grew up in that world and most fondly remember that style of wrestling are getting older. Bret's 65 talking about Stampede like if Stampede came back then people would be going to see it on that local territory level again. Cornette thinks it, too; it's a particular piece of delusison that gets buried under his bluster and bigotry, but it's the same fundamental issue. The idea that they grew up with it and in this world, and wrestling is no longer like that, no longer as big, but if only we did things back how they were forty or fifty years ago, wrestling would be there again. It's as deluded old man as you get, because that's not happening. No wrestling is getting people to do that again.

Yeah... pop culture and wrestling especially moves FORWARD... things change with the times... and you can't put genies back in the bottle... if Raw was nothing but an hour of jobber squashes main evented by Seth Rollins vs
Ashante Adonis... no one would tune in anymore.

[Slingshot Suplay]

*jumps over the top rope onto FAN posters*

[This Player Hating Mothman]

Apr 13, 2023 20:04:31 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave said:

Apr 13, 2023 19:37:39 GMT -5 This Player Hating Mothman said:

"I just think the old kind of wrestling is sorely missed by a lot of people. It's like, you know, if the old wrestling was around, like my dad's wrestling, we'd come see it kind of thing."

This is always where the crux of the old man cloud-yelling falls and it's always so wrong. The world has moved on from what was popular decades ago, and the people who grew up in that world and most fondly remember that style of wrestling are getting older. Bret's 65 talking about Stampede like if Stampede came back then people would be going to see it on that local territory level again. Cornette thinks it, too; it's a particular piece of delusison that gets buried under his bluster and bigotry, but it's the same fundamental issue. The idea that they grew up with it and in this world, and wrestling is no longer like that, no longer as big, but if only we did things back how they were forty or fifty years ago, wrestling would be there again. It's as deluded old man as you get, because that's not happening. No wrestling is getting people to do that again.

Yeah... pop culture and wrestling especially moves FORWARD... things change with the times... and you can't put genies back in the bottle... if Raw was nothing but an hour of jobber squashes main evented by Seth Rollins vs
Ashante Adonis... no one would tune in anymore.

There's so many factors to it. You can't have a territory running month-long loops where it does the same match in each town. TV rights and streaming buys massively outweight what a typical random television episode's live gate can be. In days where there were just more limited entertainment options (a few channels on television, no home computers, primitive video game consoles, etc.) going to see wrestling when it was in town was a route to see entertainment for not much money, but now unless we're talking about areas without good/any internet, there's just a million other things in the palm of your hand. The fractionalization of entertainment as those options have swelled, and the need of wrestling to adapt toward what will draw money from its fans, which is not the show that drew with wrestling fans fifty years ago any more than the music that sold well fifty years ago would be an abject failure today. Even if we put kayfabe aside, there is just so much in the way of letting the wrestling these guys want be a success. The NWA reboot is proof of that; a small niche promotion presenting wrestling in a throwback style and without the high paced flippy stuff, and it hasn't exactly connected with a giant audience setting the world on fire. It's found its audience and it's settled into numbers, and I don't think those numbers are inherently bad at all for a promotion of their size, but clearly it's not surging up as proof that if you get all this dumb nerd stuff out of the way and let the REAL CASUAL FAN back in or some shit that you're going to pull everyone back into the arenas every few weeks for the wrestling that was.

[stoptheclocks]

Apr 12, 2023 16:16:32 GMT -5 Gerard Gerard said:

Adore the fact modern wrestlers go out of their way to put Bret on a pedestal and he uses to the vantage point to piss all over them.

I think they're probably able to accept that they disagree on something as trivial as the presentation of pro wrestling.

[poodoojenkins]

I've seen old Stampede matches.

It's some of the corniest shit around. Dudes would fly halfway across the ring from a punch.

I honestly don't know where these old school goofballs get this shit. I grew up watching the same wrestling they're talking about. I loved it, don't get me wrong, but it was f***ing hokey.

Modern strikes, slams, chain wrestling, things like that look more realistic than they ever have. And while the high flying side of things is a little less believable, it's more exciting and athletic than anything most of Bret's generation could even dream of.

Perhaps most ironically, it was Bret's generation that introduced those aspects into American wrestling, and were the ones the old timers felt this same way about. His own brother-in-law, Dynamite Kid, is one of the first dudes to be actively introducing lucha and Japanese styles to a widespread American audience. His matches with Tiger Mask pretty literally invented what has become almost the standard match structure, with tons of false finishes and big move after big move (while also redefining what Japanese wrestling itself was). And while Bret has often condemned Tom Billington, he has also often said that Dynamite Kid might be the greatest ever.

None of this is even touching the fact that Bret himself came to fame as part of a movement toward smaller, more athletic wrestlers.

Sorry to get carried away, I just get tired of these crotchety old heads, whining about the exact same things they themselves helped create. It's just so damn hypocritical.

[ToyfareMark]

I agree with Bret when it comes to things like guys jumping over the top onto a bunch wrestlers. I mean it looks impressive visually, but its one of those things where it doesn't look like its gonna hurt, and if anything would hurt the person doing the flip more. There's other things as well like swanton bombs are just dumb. You hit someone with your back, its silly. Table spots, the table breaks your fall. That spot at the Rumble where Ricochet and Logan Paul launched at each other from the top rope. Neither of them attempted any kind of move, they just jumped toward each other and collided.

I guess what I'm saying is I'd rather see moves that sell the illusion of really hurting the opponent rather than to just look cool visually.

[tafkaga]

Apr 14, 2023 4:48:31 GMT -5 ToyfareMark said:

I agree with Bret when it comes to things like guys jumping over the top onto a bunch wrestlers. I mean it looks impressive visually, but its one of those things where it doesn't look like its gonna hurt, and if anything would hurt the person doing the flip more. There's other things as well like swanton bombs are just dumb. You hit someone with your back, its silly. Table spots, the table breaks your fall. That spot at the Rumble where Ricochet and Logan Paul launched at each other from the top rope. Neither of them attempted any kind of move, they just jumped toward each other and collided.

I guess what I'm saying is I'd rather see moves that sell the illusion of really hurting the opponent rather than to just look cool visually.

Sometimes the modern product looks like marks playing wrestling on their backyard trampoline.  AND, honestly I enjoy the modern in-ring product to a great extent.  There is no "this era had the perfect balance" because every era has been diverse enough that you have to take the good with the bad.  Pro wrestling, at its best, has always been a variety show.

[Kevin Hamilton]

Bret's 65 years old and has always been a bit on the old fashioned side of wrestling opinions anyway.


This is the least surprising take ever. He's been consistent in what he likes, gotta respect his conviction.

[Zone Was Wrong]

Again, it's all subjective. If today's wrestling isn't his style, I get it. Personally? I love today's style. I love action and it's especially great when you have people like Darby or OC who incorporate a lot psychology into that action. The drama is still there, that's all that matters to me. Saw another thing where he was criticizing Mox's hardcore stuff as well, which again is subjective. Different styles of wrestling create a rainbow of choices for different fans. I love it.

[Jindrak Mark]

Bret just seems like a pretty unpleasant person in general but he had such as shitty time from 97-02 that most people sympathize with him and give him the benefit of the doubt.

During Martha's lawsuit against WWE he cared more about getting ownership of his footage than he did getting justice for Owen. His recent comments saying he doesn't believe Vince raped Rita Chatterton because she's ugly. His old "no one got a boner watching Moolah and Mae" was treated as a harmless joke at the time but he's basically saying female wrestlers only matter if they're attractive. His ex-wife accused him of domestic abuse which was completely ignored compared to allegations against other wrestlers.

Even Goldberg recently said I've apologized for 20 years but I'm done, I'm not doing it anymore, my wife and kid keep going on the internet and seeing a new interview with this man attacking me every week despite the fact we've met in person multiple times over the years since and he's always polite to my face and tells me he forgives me.

[britishbulldog]

Bret isn’t talking about reality in the characters but the matches. The lack of reality in the fight is missing and I agree with the fact it’s taken something away.

[britishbulldog]

Bret isn’t talking about reality in the characters but the matches. The lack of reality in the fight is missing and I agree with the fact it’s taken something away.

[Hit Girl]

I still consider the USA vs The Hart Foundation feud to be second only to the Mega Powers as wrestling's greatest ever storyline.

[coleslaw]

I'm awful at picture editing but I really want to do that "Pathetic." giant duck meme with Bret Hart's head shopped on

[Bo Rida]

It'll be interesting in many years to come to hear Orange Cassidy's take on the wrestling of 2053.

[john84]

Apr 14, 2023 15:03:03 GMT -5 Bo Rida said:

It'll be interesting in many years to come to hear Orange Cassidy's take on the wrestling of 2053.

 Obviously you'd have to imagine him 30 years older but still lol.

[Milkman Norm]

A tangentially related point. Whenever old school types talk about how the territories used to work they admit they're mostly talking about wrestling in the southeast or other sparsly populated largely rural areas. New York, Chicago and most other major markets north of the Mason Dixon line didn't have to go to the levels that the weekly territories did. So while it wasn't presented as a show it also wasn't the deal where if they didn't kayfabe everything all the time they wouldn't draw.

[Sir Woodrow]

The tragedy of Bret these days is that now it's his house that's got old man stink

[XIII]

I’m 100% on board for the get rid of one person dives and takes out 20 people spot. I know that they do it for safety but half the time the people in the front don’t catch them anyways and the people in the back fall down and look like idiots. 🤣