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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on May 29, 2023 17:49:44 GMT -5
AEW has a mixture of good and bad angles each PPV cycle. It's mostly fine in my view and the main event stuff tends to be good. I find Hunter's booking to be very meh but business is solid so I wouldn't push for him giving it up either.
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Fade
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Post by Fade on May 29, 2023 17:56:08 GMT -5
I've thought this for a while now, but sadly it will never happen. Tony winning them booker of the year awards certainly won't change his view on his booking. To me, the booking got noticeably worse as soon as Cody left, which makes me believe he had a lot more involvement in booking and running the company than Tony let on. I lean on this. I’ve long suspected Tony gets shaped by those closest to him and it reflects in the booking. The first three years, seemed like he was heavily influenced by Jericho, Cody, Kenny and the Bucks. The shows format was very diverse with wwe like angles, indy like stuff, and stuff influenced by Japan. Once Punk came in, the show became very wrestling-centric. Also, possibly a compliment, the show felt more unified as opposed to the smorgasbord the show came off as before. When Punk and the elite got suspended, the show felt veerrry roh-like. And as much as I hated it, there were moments of brilliance spread throughout. Things have been rocky in the last few months. A good word to describe things would be chaotic. The success of All In, getting in a second show, whatever inevitable deal with MAX occurs, the f***ing video game is coming out, C.M Punk is returning after putting a major dent in the product…… Like, this is crazy. And Tony’s shown he’s a little crazy in his own way. Like Vince, I don’t see him ever giving it up. But again, just my opinion, whoever the hell his current team’s been? Sucks. They suck. Nothing feels concentrated and super over. You get pockets of it with MJF, or the elite… the last major over act I found AEW had was that Acclaimed title run. No matter how shows we’re going you had that guaranteed over act. Maybe, maybe he pulls a Vince, and gets himself a Dynamite & Collision separate creative team. Guess that’s all touch and go with how soft or erect the roster split is.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on May 29, 2023 17:58:11 GMT -5
I mean, honestly, the last few weeks have been the stuff that got me back into watching AEW week by week and that’s only because some of the stuff that’s strong is really strong. A lot of stuff happened to put a cloud over everything and it seems to be passing bit by bit (until the wind blows weird and Punk’s offended by Brody King’s food habit or something). The issue is that, let’s be honest, DoN wasn’t an important show. It wasn’t the moment the Canadian tour got announced, Forbidden Door was announced, All In was announced, Collision was announced, all that stuff is going to be the focus because two of them are international shows, one is a new TV show and all of it will involve people coming back into the mix and making stuff fresh again. It’s not an excuse but it does put some things into context for me personally. I think you just need a break. Short, long, doesn’t matter, but unless this is a sign of things to come, I think it’s just a lull period that every company goes through. That’s just me, you can completely ignore it if you want. This has been my feeling on it. Double or Nothing is probably the first time AEW's made the mistake of looking past a show, and while I am sure the sales numbers are going to be strong, I wouldn't be shocked if it's below their usual.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 29, 2023 18:50:12 GMT -5
I've thought this for a while now, but sadly it will never happen. Tony winning them booker of the year awards certainly won't change his view on his booking. To me, the booking got noticeably worse as soon as Cody left, which makes me believe he had a lot more involvement in booking and running the company than Tony let on. I lean on this. I’ve long suspected Tony gets shaped by those closest to him and it reflects in the booking. The first three years, seemed like he was heavily influenced by Jericho, Cody, Kenny and the Bucks. The shows format was very diverse with wwe like angles, indy like stuff, and stuff influenced by Japan. Once Punk came in, the show became very wrestling-centric. Also, possibly a compliment, the show felt more unified as opposed to the smorgasbord the show came off as before. When Punk and the elite got suspended, the show felt veerrry roh-like. And as much as I hated it, there were moments of brilliance spread throughout. Things have been rocky in the last few months. A good word to describe things would be chaotic. The success of All In, getting in a second show, whatever inevitable deal with MAX occurs, the f***ing video game is coming out, C.M Punk is returning after putting a major dent in the product…… Like, this is crazy. And Tony’s shown he’s a little crazy in his own way. Like Vince, I don’t see him ever giving it up. But again, just my opinion, whoever the hell his current team’s been? Sucks. They suck. Nothing feels concentrated and super over. You get pockets of it with MJF, or the elite… the last major over act I found AEW had was that Acclaimed title run. No matter how shows we’re going you had that guaranteed over act. Maybe, maybe he pulls a Vince, and gets himself a Dynamite & Collision separate creative team. Guess that’s all touch and go with how soft or erect the roster split is. Collision will already have at least a separate co-booker, given Danielson's already been confirmed for it, so yeah, there's progress for this. Will Washington was also hired on to help and I imagine we'll see his influence with newer storylines where he can have an easier hand in things I also don't agree that CM Punk put a "major dent" in the product tbh, AEW's getting a great new TV Deal, they're making one of the biggest wrestling events ever with Wembley already, and overall, it seems like everything's been pretty normal. You could cite ratings being lower, but AEW hasn't exactly been having it easy with the competition either.
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markymark
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Post by markymark on May 29, 2023 18:57:47 GMT -5
I don't think you'll really see the tree semen of the new folks brought in start to manifest until Collision starts. This too. Someone like Will Washington’s just getting his feet wet, he likely didn’t help TK decide what to do about Jamie Hayter or what the build to the four way was, for example.
I want to give Will a fair chance now because he joined when it was like 3 weeks before DON and there was no point of improvising/pivoting when the plans were already set.
Let see how he can help with the build to Forbidden Door, last year it was very rushed(I know the injuries didnt help either)
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Fade
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Post by Fade on May 29, 2023 19:00:07 GMT -5
I lean on this. I’ve long suspected Tony gets shaped by those closest to him and it reflects in the booking. The first three years, seemed like he was heavily influenced by Jericho, Cody, Kenny and the Bucks. The shows format was very diverse with wwe like angles, indy like stuff, and stuff influenced by Japan. Once Punk came in, the show became very wrestling-centric. Also, possibly a compliment, the show felt more unified as opposed to the smorgasbord the show came off as before. When Punk and the elite got suspended, the show felt veerrry roh-like. And as much as I hated it, there were moments of brilliance spread throughout. Things have been rocky in the last few months. A good word to describe things would be chaotic. The success of All In, getting in a second show, whatever inevitable deal with MAX occurs, the f***ing video game is coming out, C.M Punk is returning after putting a major dent in the product…… Like, this is crazy. And Tony’s shown he’s a little crazy in his own way. Like Vince, I don’t see him ever giving it up. But again, just my opinion, whoever the hell his current team’s been? Sucks. They suck. Nothing feels concentrated and super over. You get pockets of it with MJF, or the elite… the last major over act I found AEW had was that Acclaimed title run. No matter how shows we’re going you had that guaranteed over act. Maybe, maybe he pulls a Vince, and gets himself a Dynamite & Collision separate creative team. Guess that’s all touch and go with how soft or erect the roster split is. Collision will already have at least a separate co-booker, given Danielson's already been confirmed for it, so yeah, there's progress for this. Will Washington was also hired on to help and I imagine we'll see his influence with newer storylines where he can have an easier hand in things I also don't agree that CM Punk put a "major dent" in the product tbh, AEW's getting a great new TV Deal, they're making one of the biggest wrestling events ever with Wembley already, and overall, it seems like everything's been pretty normal. You could cite ratings being lower, but AEW hasn't exactly been having it easy with the competition either. Bro I don’t even know where to start if you’re implying Muffingate didn’t initially hurt the product and the company’s image. They recuperated, but to deny that? God bless.
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markymark
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Post by markymark on May 29, 2023 19:02:11 GMT -5
They need do, because this weeks Dynamite it will have 4000 people in a 12k venue, so dont be surprised if its another "bad crowd"
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 29, 2023 19:07:50 GMT -5
Collision will already have at least a separate co-booker, given Danielson's already been confirmed for it, so yeah, there's progress for this. Will Washington was also hired on to help and I imagine we'll see his influence with newer storylines where he can have an easier hand in things I also don't agree that CM Punk put a "major dent" in the product tbh, AEW's getting a great new TV Deal, they're making one of the biggest wrestling events ever with Wembley already, and overall, it seems like everything's been pretty normal. You could cite ratings being lower, but AEW hasn't exactly been having it easy with the competition either. Bro I don’t even know where to start if you’re implying Muffingate didn’t initially hurt the product and the company’s image. They recuperated, but to deny that? God bless. Oh no I'm not denying it did something, but "Major Dent" implies to me like everlasting damage, like WCW/TNA shit It didn't do that, though yeah it f***ing sucked when it happened...
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Post by kingoftheindies on May 29, 2023 19:09:26 GMT -5
They need do, because this weeks Dynamite it will have 4000 people in a 12k venue, so dont be surprised if its another "bad crowd"
Yeah a lot of people at the show seem legit annoyed with how bad the show came off for much of the PPV because almost everyone at the show said the crowd was loud and into the show. This is also something I've seen brought up that I didn't take into consideration but I can see it. Like the show itself wasn't bad I don't think, but aside from the Pillars and Anarchy in the Arena a lot of the stuff didn't seem to have the ppv build... which for a company that doesn't have many PPVs to begin with makes the show stick out. But even with that, I don't think the booking from last night was bad per say just... not really PPV booking if that makes sense? But the more I think about it, the more they're clearly just trying to get to Collision to be a "new season" for AEW for the build towards Wembley with the Owen being the big draw for the Canadian Tour
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Kalmia
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Post by Kalmia on May 29, 2023 19:13:08 GMT -5
Who should he bring in? I'm wondering who is out there that isn't either out of touch, washed up, or both.
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Nr1Humanoid
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on May 29, 2023 19:14:29 GMT -5
The booking would be better if Khan did not write as if he forgot what he wrote 15 minutes ago.
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Post by Super Duper Dragunov on May 29, 2023 19:20:49 GMT -5
SRS already said that TK has a lot of people helping him with the booking last weekend, idk how many times this has to be repeated. If anything TK should hire new audio engineers. Absolutely. You can have the best booked card in the world, but if your crowd sounds uninterested it will kill the mood of the show. I'm just glad I'm not crazy because I've been mentioning how off the audio sounds whenever I've watched for a while now. I would love to rewatch DoN with properly remixed audio of the crowd. Hopefully this means TK knows it's an issue, and can work on fixing it.
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Zone Was Wrong
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on May 29, 2023 19:24:12 GMT -5
Every wrestling company ever has lull periods. We've just as many great storylines in AEW as bad in it's short time. Last night had baffling moments, sure, but I still don't get how a handful of dumb choices means the ship is sinking or the show was bad. Really felt like there were so many more great moments and matches than bad, like anything in entertainment.
I mean, yeah the women's division is still booked so bizarrely and Jericho is where storylines get stretched to infinity. But we still have the best booked champion in wrestling in OC. We have BCC vs The Elite that has been amazing and given fantastic moments. HoB gives us badass matches and a different feel to every title defense. Wardlow/Christian was a simple story but worked out really well and left people speechless between Arn biting a dinosaur's thumb off and Wardlow doing his best Jeff Hardy impression. Hell, even the Four Pillars match made up for what a lot of people thought was a bad build (personally I thought it had been fine minus Sammy's weird out of nowhere face turn).
Tony has weaknesses in his booking but the big moments still hit hard imo. Now when it comes to the women's division, yeah give the book over to someone like Maria because it's obvious his mind just goes blank when writing their storylines.
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markymark
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Post by markymark on May 29, 2023 19:39:23 GMT -5
The booking would be better if Khan did not write as if he forgot what he wrote 15 minutes ago.
Thats Will Washington job but he joined 3 weeks ago, his real test will be the road to Forbidden Door.
Every wrestling company ever has lull periods. We've just as many great storylines in AEW as bad in it's short time. Last night had baffling moments, sure, but I still don't get how a handful of dumb choices means the ship is sinking or the show was bad. Really felt like there were so many more great moments and matches than bad, like anything in entertainment. I mean, yeah the women's division is still booked so bizarrely and Jericho is where storylines get stretched to infinity. But we still have the best booked champion in wrestling in OC. We have BCC vs The Elite that has been amazing and given fantastic moments. HoB gives us badass matches and a different feel to every title defense. Wardlow/Christian was a simple story but worked out really well and left people speechless between Arn biting a dinosaur's thumb off and Wardlow doing his best Jeff Hardy impression. Hell, even the Four Pillars match made up for what a lot of people thought was a bad build (personally I thought it had been fine minus Sammy's weird out of nowhere face turn). Tony has weaknesses in his booking but the big moments still hit hard imo. Now when it comes to the women's division, yeah give the book over to someone like Maria because it's obvious his mind just goes blank when writing their storylines.
Will Washington is a big fan of the division, Sarah Stock, Madison Rayne are already part of TKs team.
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Post by firsttimelongtime on May 29, 2023 20:46:09 GMT -5
Khan has no doubt lost some of his old magic.
There are still aspects of AEW which are a lot of fun. The OC run has been my favorite stuff in wrestling. Loved the tag title angle this PPV. I even thought Christian/Wardlow was good TV/match.
The bad outweighs the good for me right now. The Statlander angle last night was WWE swill. Roderick Strong beating Garcia is needless. And Khan is responsible for what I think is AEW’s biggest problem: MJF as champion.
This reign has been abysmal. He’s a one note player as a character. He’s an incredible in ring wrestler, somewhere between 5-10 in the world for me. But that can only get you so far, and to me, the hollowness of how he plays everything prevents him from really being “the guy.” Nothing about him seems real. He goes on television and tells stories which are clearly fake.
Khan hasn’t done him any favors either. He put him with three guys who are even less ready than him. The stories they are telling aren’t interesting because no one believes he can lose. Say what you will about Reigns title run, but the WWE made their audience believe Cody and Sami could win, which AEW hasn’t done yet. The matches are great, but I see 5 or so great matches every week. There needs to be more.
Khan hasn’t built any challengers up. Who is even viable? Adam Cole is the only person booked to be there, but he’s overpushed, and it would lead to more of the same. Wardlow is currently trying to be saved by Arn Anderson, and it’s not bad, but he’s a ways out. Who is left/ready?
They should have given it to Danielson at Revolution. It would have been a much needed breath of fresh air. Now it’s rudderless, waiting for someone to make the audience think twice. The only option at this very moment is presumably siloed to Saturdays.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2023 20:52:14 GMT -5
Really think people need to be careful for when they ask for other bookers, because most bookers suck. Every company has ebbs and flows in terms of booking 52 weeks of TV, but a few slow weeks and an PPV that the OP rated a 6 or 7 isn't enough to switch bookers.
In fairness, I gave it a 6/7 because outside of the Cole/Jericho debacle, none of the wrestling was actively bad. I know that it's just internet points and no one who matters will ever see my score, but when talent goes out and does their best and kills it in-ring, I can't go lower than a 5 no matter how god-awful the booking is.
The wrestling gets an 8. The booking gets a 3.
I think eJm had it right. I just need a break from it. I am a little pissy about the fact that a company that only does 5 ppv's per year straight up phoned one in because the TV is more important; frankly, I find it very WCW.
There was a magic to early AEW because it was a bit of a buffet with something to offer to every palate (which is also very WCW, but in a good way), but it's all just felt very stale and "singular visioned".
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on May 29, 2023 21:22:39 GMT -5
The booking would be better if Khan did not write as if he forgot what he wrote 15 minutes ago. I agree with a lot of the criticism of AEW’s booking, especially lately, but I vehemently disagree with this one. AEW’s long-term continuity and actual acknowledgment of things that happened months-to-years ago is one of AEW’s best features. Simple things like commentary acknowledging that Kip Sabian dislikes Orange Cassidy in the battle royal, for example.
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markymark
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Post by markymark on May 29, 2023 22:01:13 GMT -5
Khan has no doubt lost some of his old magic. There are still aspects of AEW which are a lot of fun. The OC run has been my favorite stuff in wrestling. Loved the tag title angle this PPV. I even thought Christian/Wardlow was good TV/match. The bad outweighs the good for me right now. The Statlander angle last night was WWE swill. Roderick Strong beating Garcia is needless. And Khan is responsible for what I think is AEW’s biggest problem: MJF as champion. This reign has been abysmal. He’s a one note player as a character. He’s an incredible in ring wrestler, somewhere between 5-10 in the world for me. But that can only get you so far, and to me, the hollowness of how he plays everything prevents him from really being “the guy.” Nothing about him seems real. He goes on television and tells stories which are clearly fake. Khan hasn’t done him any favors either. He put him with three guys who are even less ready than him. The stories they are telling aren’t interesting because no one believes he can lose. Say what you will about Reigns title run, but the WWE made their audience believe Cody and Sami could win, which AEW hasn’t done yet. The matches are great, but I see 5 or so great matches every week. There needs to be more. Khan hasn’t built any challengers up. Who is even viable? Adam Cole is the only person booked to be there, but he’s overpushed, and it would lead to more of the same. Wardlow is currently trying to be saved by Arn Anderson, and it’s not bad, but he’s a ways out. Who is left/ready? They should have given it to Danielson at Revolution. It would have been a much needed breath of fresh air. Now it’s rudderless, waiting for someone to make the audience think twice. The only option at this very moment is presumably siloed to Saturdays.
MJF is another guy who needs a creative/writing team to make him work (like his mentor Cody, if you let him do his stuff without help then...we see what he currently is atm).
I want to see how Will Washington can help rehabbing MJF title reign, since we know he is touch with the IWC and he knows the complains about MJF and AEW product.
Danielson is still banged up from the Ironman match, if you put the title on him then its going to be like the final months of Kenny as champion...
Voices of Wrestling said AEW plans a hard reset on some characters after the PPV so its now wait and see.
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Post by Starshine on May 29, 2023 22:54:24 GMT -5
I disagree, and that's not because I think the recent stuff has been good, it hasn't. The pillars feud just didn't work, when it could have been a foundational feud the company could build off of for years. But it's also just a fact that every creative mind will go through some rough spots every now and then, and it personally hasn't reached a point for me to lose faith in his wider creative vision.
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Post by bearned on May 30, 2023 0:38:02 GMT -5
Honestly some fans have high standards that are fairly unachievable consistently on a wrestling show where things happen (injuries/tantrums) that mean plans change either short term or long term fairly regularly.
Now some of that is TKs problem but some of it isn’t. An unevenly booked PPV which still had some bangers isn’t exactly worth calling for TK to step back.
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