Tony Khan needs to hand the book over for a little while

[Deleted]

Last night was... not good, booking wise, at least to me.  And honestly, the booking has been pretty dire since a little after muffin gate anyway. 

Yeah, we had the weird as hell Statlander hot-shot title win last night which sucked, but my bigger complaint is how stagnant, sterile, and paint by numbers the booking has been. 

AEW was always predictable, but it was predictable in a logical way, a good way, one where the audience knew the outcome but didn't know how we were going to arrive there. 

That magic's gone, as of late. 

To that end, I think Tony needs to hand the book off for at least 6 months, maybe even a year.  He can still have final say, but dude is tapped.  Even Vince had Bruce and Pat back in the day. 

Dunno, last night was just disappointing because it caps off a downward trend in AEW's quality as of late, which kind of depresses me.

[markymark]

SRS already said that TK has a lot of people helping him with the booking last weekend, idk how many times this has to be repeated. If anything TK should hire new audio engineers.

[Deleted]

May 29, 2023 17:02:42 GMT -5 markymark said:

SRS already said that TK has a lot of people helping him with the booking last weekend, idk how many times this has to be repeated.

I don't read a lot of news, my bad.

If that's "a lot of people" helping him, then he needs better people.

[eJm]

I mean, honestly, the last few weeks have been the stuff that got me back into watching AEW week by week and that’s only because some of the stuff that’s strong is really strong. A lot of stuff happened to put a cloud over everything and it seems to be passing bit by bit (until the wind blows weird and Punk’s offended by Brody King’s food habit or something).

The issue is that, let’s be honest, DoN wasn’t an important show. It wasn’t the moment the Canadian tour got announced, Forbidden Door was announced, All In was announced, Collision was announced, all that stuff is going to be the focus because two of them are international shows, one is a new TV show and all of it will involve people coming back into the mix and making stuff fresh again. It’s not an excuse but it does put some things into context for me personally.

I think you just need a break. Short, long, doesn’t matter, but unless this is a sign of things to come, I think it’s just a lull period that every company goes through. That’s just me, you can completely ignore it if you want.

[Cyno]

I don't think you'll really see the tree semen of the new folks brought in start to manifest until Collision starts.

[eJm]

May 29, 2023 17:12:22 GMT -5 Cyno said:

I don't think you'll really see the tree semen of the new folks brought in start to manifest until Collision starts.

This too. Someone like Will Washington’s just getting his feet wet, he likely didn’t help TK decide what to do about Jamie Hayter or what the build to the four way was, for example.

[Denny Zen is Cooking™]

May 29, 2023 17:12:06 GMT -5 eJm said:

I mean, honestly, the last few weeks have been the stuff that got me back into watching AEW week by week and that’s only because some of the stuff that’s strong is really strong. A lot of stuff happened to put a cloud over everything and it seems to be passing bit by bit (until the wind blows weird and Punk’s offended by Brody King’s food habit or something).

The issue is that, let’s be honest, DoN wasn’t an important show. It wasn’t the moment the Canadian tour got announced, Forbidden Door was announced, All In was announced, Collision was announced, all that stuff is going to be the focus because two of them are international shows, one is a new TV show and all of it will involve people coming back into the mix and making stuff fresh again. It’s not an excuse but it does put some things into context for me personally.

I think you just need a break. Short, long, doesn’t matter, but unless this is a sign of things to come, I think it’s just a lull period that every company goes through. That’s just me, you can completely ignore it if you want.

On the one hand, I completely agree with you. A lot of people’s reaction to this show is akin to saying that WWE is dying because Great Balls of Fire was lackluster or something.

On the other, AEW doesn’t have 900,000 “premium live events” per year, so it can’t really afford to have a $50 PPV feel so fillery. I actually thought last night’s show was quite good, but it just didn’t have the appointment viewing feel that AEW PPVs do when they’re at their best.

[Fade is a CodyCryBaby]

Not gonna happen. For all the Vince compare and contrasts, that ego’s a strong similarity.

But for all the talk of people helping him the last six months or whatever, I’ve had the thought “those ppl must suck”.

[eJm]

May 29, 2023 17:17:27 GMT -5 Denny Zen is Cooking™ said:

May 29, 2023 17:12:06 GMT -5 eJm said:

I mean, honestly, the last few weeks have been the stuff that got me back into watching AEW week by week and that’s only because some of the stuff that’s strong is really strong. A lot of stuff happened to put a cloud over everything and it seems to be passing bit by bit (until the wind blows weird and Punk’s offended by Brody King’s food habit or something).

The issue is that, let’s be honest, DoN wasn’t an important show. It wasn’t the moment the Canadian tour got announced, Forbidden Door was announced, All In was announced, Collision was announced, all that stuff is going to be the focus because two of them are international shows, one is a new TV show and all of it will involve people coming back into the mix and making stuff fresh again. It’s not an excuse but it does put some things into context for me personally.

I think you just need a break. Short, long, doesn’t matter, but unless this is a sign of things to come, I think it’s just a lull period that every company goes through. That’s just me, you can completely ignore it if you want.

On the one hand, I completely agree with you. A lot of people’s reaction to this show is akin to saying that WWE is dying because Great Balls of Fire was lackluster or something.

On the other, AEW doesn’t have 900,000 “premium live events” per year, so it can’t really afford to have a $50 PPV feel so fillery. I actually thought last night’s show was quite good, but it just didn’t have the appointment viewing feel that AEW PPVs do when they’re at their best.

Oh I get that completely. I literally brought it because it was part of a FITE TV PPV bundle where you get all the shows for the rest of the year and likely wasn’t going to get it separate so I can’t imagine how it was like paying full price with that context in mind. And hey, I’m not going to say you shouldn’t be annoyed by that, just putting in why that might have been.

If the rest of the shows this year suck, then we’ll come back to this discussion. 😆

[Tiger Millionaire]

Really think people need to be careful for when they ask for other bookers, because most bookers suck. Every company has ebbs and flows in terms of booking 52 weeks of TV, but a few slow weeks and an PPV that the OP rated a 6 or 7 isn't enough to switch bookers.

[raymondo316]

I've thought this for a while now, but sadly it will never happen. Tony winning them booker of the year awards certainly won't change his view on his booking.

To me, the booking got noticeably worse as soon as Cody left, which makes me believe he had a lot more involvement in booking and running the company than Tony let on.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Bringing in other bookers does not automatically mean the booking you currently don't like is going to get better, in reality, it could actively make AEW's booking worse the more hands are in a cookie jar

Tony will have help with Collision, this was already reported, but I don't think the bookings been terrible either. Elite/BCC might be the best storyline in wrestling for me right now

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

May 29, 2023 17:34:14 GMT -5 raymondo316 said:

I've thought this for a while now, but sadly it will never happen. Tony winning them booker of the year awards certainly won't change his view on his booking.

To me, the booking got noticeably worse as soon as Cody left, which makes me believe he had a lot more involvement in booking and running the company than Tony let on.

But Cody's booking was awful... like The Codyverse was one of the weirdest paced and booked things in all of AEW

If he had a hand in booking others, fair enough, but if Cody had that much booking control overall, he did nothing to actively help himself, so idk if I'd connect it to Cody.

[Tiger Millionaire]

I don't think the booking got worse since Cody left, I just think that period of time coincides with the time after AEW kept bringing in new people(Danielson, Cole, Punk). so a big basis of their booking was "Wait for this surprise at the end of the show", and that's just not sustainable.

[Cyno]

AEW had some really great booking after Cody left and some baffling decisions while Cody was still there (with a good bit of that involving Cody himself). I don't think one really had to do much with the other.

I'd tie a lot more of AEW's booking woes to the rash of injuries last year on top of Punk throwing his post-All Out 2022 fit.

[FinalGwen]

I think the Statlander match really showed off a weakness of the booking. Like, it's not that Statlander is a bad wrestler or doesn't deserve it, or that I wasn't excited to see her back. But like, we've literally been in a holding pattern for the last however many months. Every wrestler that's been added to Jade's streak, anyone who got a natural reaction from the crowd, Nyla Rose making that title scene actually interesting for once, none of it mattered, none of them could achieve any organic success from it, they were an anime filler arc until the real story could happen, because Tony had this plan in his head and nothing could change it.

And that's just not how wrestling works. It's fluid, long form storytelling that adapts to injuries, to behind-the-scenes drama, and crucially to crowd reactions. But like, outside of maybe the red-hot popularity of the Acclaimed, we haven't had that organic change as much. Much as I utterly adore Hangman and his arc, would it have been dropped if the crowd had been indifferent to him? Was Cody's stale character refusing to turn heel just Cody's own perceptions of his character or just because that wasn't meant to be his role in the grand plan? We were being told who the four pillars of the company were before they'd earned it in the same way as Misawa and co, the crowd didn't really get to make that decision for themselves.

If this sounds harsh, like, it's not always a bad thing. Sometimes it works out brilliantly, and in 10 years or so I'm going to adore the video essays tracing each step of the fable of Hangman and the Elite from start to finish. And it's easy to make grand plans when you have a roster with the likes of the Elite, MJF, Moxley, etc. and not all of that should be discarded. But sometimes you also have to roll with the punches, and AEW's rigidity can sometimes be a hindrance. Think we saw it with the Brawl Out aftermath and how directionless things seemed for a bit, and Jade's title reign is also a prime example. I think people would have far less problem with it if it had come to a natural conclusion rather than being dragged out until Kris was healthy again.

[Cyno]

I think AEW not rolling with the punches enough gets overstated TBH. I generally think they're pretty good at pivoting when they need to. Part of what made the Jade run being in a holding pattern until Kris healed from her ACL tear so frustrating is that it was a very glaring exception to that.

[TWERKIN' MAGGLE]

Fine, I'll write the show. You're all so damn pushy.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

May 29, 2023 17:41:47 GMT -5 FinalGwen said:

I think the Statlander match really showed off a weakness of the booking. Like, it's not that Statlander is a bad wrestler or doesn't deserve it, or that I wasn't excited to see her back. But like, we've literally been in a holding pattern for the last however many months. Every wrestler that's been added to Jade's streak, anyone who got a natural reaction from the crowd, Nyla Rose making that title scene actually interesting for once, none of it mattered, none of them could achieve any organic success from it, they were an anime filler arc until the real story could happen, because Tony had this plan in his head and nothing could change it.

And that's just not how wrestling works. It's fluid, long form storytelling that adapts to injuries, to behind-the-scenes drama, and crucially to crowd reactions. But like, outside of maybe the red-hot popularity of the Acclaimed, we haven't had that organic change as much. Much as I utterly adore Hangman and his arc, would it have been dropped if the crowd had been indifferent to him? Was Cody's stale character refusing to turn heel just Cody's own perceptions of his character or just because that wasn't meant to be his role in the grand plan? We were being told who the four pillars of the company were before they'd earned it in the same way as Misawa and co, the crowd didn't really get to make that decision for themselves.

If this sounds harsh, like, it's not always a bad thing. Sometimes it works out brilliantly, and in 10 years or so I'm going to adore the video essays tracing each step of the fable of Hangman and the Elite from start to finish. And it's easy to make grand plans when you have a roster with the likes of the Elite, MJF, Moxley, etc. and not all of that should be discarded. But sometimes you also have to roll with the punches, and AEW's rigidity can sometimes be a hindrance. Think we saw it with the Brawl Out aftermath and how directionless things seemed for a bit, and Jade's title reign is also a prime example. I think people would have far less problem with it if it had come to a natural conclusion rather than being dragged out until Kris was healthy again.

This is maybe the one thing that if I could change one thing about Tony's booking, it'd be this

Sometimes deviating from the plan isn't a bad thing, and he has before! But in Jade's case, he really needed to and never pulled the trigger. Now thankfully, he did give everyone a fruitful result and now we have a great champion, but nothing was stopping him from ending Jade's reign before it, but the moment in his head, and sometimes you gotta let the moment go, especially when the moment can't happen for like 7 months.

Tony Khan can pivot, he's been forced to a lot, but in some cases he just has to rip a band aid off, especially when feuds or an angle have carried out too long. I think in some cases he's learning, but he can't let something like the Jade situation happen again, and he was very lucky it was the second women's title and not the World Title where it would have been on a much harder display.

["Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik]

May 29, 2023 17:46:09 GMT -5 TWERKIN' MAGGLE said:

Fine, I'll write the show. You're all so damn pushy.