10 Years Ago - The Chikara Shut Down

[Hernan]

Jun 9, 2023 18:15:30 GMT -5 carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) said:

Jun 9, 2023 17:25:06 GMT -5 Hernan said:

I'll be honest. I was always rooting for Xyberhawx2000 to win King of Trios but apparently, Quack didn't see nothing in them as they were always booked to lose in the first round of the tournament. Hermit Crab & Cajun Crawdad were guilty pleasures of mine, specially for Hermit Crab's theme song, which is a masterpiece haha.

Cajun Crawdad turned into a damn compelling wrestler, specializing in huge spots and bumps. It happened so gradually, I had to watch it for several matches before I realized he wasn't boring me anymore.

Even up through the end, Quack could write a compelling story. Dasher's heel turn and rivalry with Boomer were fire. The revolt of the masked jobbers was an amazing moment. But it seemed like he could never end a storyline well. There was the constant problem of him alienating or losing people he was building up... Condron probably hurt the most, there. His character was really interesting, and if his stable had been the next big threat instead of the COTI, we might be talking about a very different Chikara from then on. But he also kept leaving fans with a feeling of "that's it?" Like, Ashley Vox becomes Oceanea, and then... is Oceanea. That's it?

And Ultramantis's title win was so disappointing, with such an obvious superior alternative, it's maddening. We see in the current shows, he's champion. And we know there's this flashback season. So we watch along, he gets the title shot. And then when he has the title match... he loses. And everyone but Hallowicked immediately gets really confused: that's not how it happened! And so now back in the present-day shows, they both have a title, and so they have to resolve it with a title match at a live show. Boom: the secret season is must-watch, UltraMantis's big moment isn't confined to a tiny taped event, Chikara's inventive storytelling gets buzz.

Last I know/heard of Crawdad (now known as C.C. Boost) was that he used to be a regular at the Camp Leapfrog shows after CHIKARA shut down. However, my first time seeing him under the new gimmick was at Indiana's Naptown All Pro. That was the only time I saw him post-CHIKARA. As for Crab, I mostly catch him in Pizza Party Pro as King Crab.

The Oceanea stuff was something I could never get into, specially the way the company had wrote her off.

I think with UMB winning the title in a secret season was more like a comic based thing. I mean, let's say there's a spin-off of a main series that focused on another character and/or universe. Like the comics, if you didn't catch up with the spin-off, you missed UMB winning the title if that makes sense. I do relate it with comics since I think Quack was a huge mark of comics.

[Rave]

Jun 9, 2023 6:12:14 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Wrestling Is also did terrible attendance wise outside of a few of them I believe. Art was helmed by Colt at the beginning I believe so it did ok and actually stood out, Fun was the closest one to CHIKARA that people clung to so they felt adjacent enough that they got fans (Even tried to revive but it was under Kobald so I'm glad it failed), but the other ones? One was basically just a feeder promotion for Ring of Honor rookies and Delirious, and then there was one other that was like Midwest run that only ran like two shows, and the attendances were so bad and the production so shit that I don't think either of them actually got DVDs of their cards... and ironically, that was the first promotion shut down by Condor and The Flood, so it was like, the domino effect to the return storyline lol.

Ah, this. One of the Wrestling Is promotions, Awesome IIRC, was up here. It didn't last long. No idea who was running it, but they had the bright idea to try to run a show in northwestern Vermont, about a half hour north from where I live, in the dead of winter. Predictably, it was cancelled. I would've loved to attend, but not enough to risk that deathtrap.

Jun 9, 2023 6:04:38 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Once again Rave I appreciate that you are the CHIKARA encyclopedia, and also, I was on Twitter watching those Scavenger hunts LIVE, you were doing the wrestling gods work during that era lol

A whole bunch of us worked pretty damn hard during that time! It's too bad the livestreams themselves are long gone, but there's something of a reason for that.

When all this started, we had one person take charge of just about everything. She did so much heavy lifting. Hosted the original CI15 podcast, wrangled the histories/wrote some of them/hosted them when the original hosting plan fell through, filmed the livestreams, basically kept everyone in line. I know she was in contact with Quackenbush during at least some of this, especially when said original hosting plan fell through. We tried getting them on Wikipedia, that didn't end well and both of us were nearly banned, I think a few other people who got involved actually were banned, it was a disaster. So, after Chikara restarted, she was hired on. IIRC it was for a merch-related position, though it's been nearly a decade since then so I'm not completely sure of that.

Well, something happened. To this day, I don't know what exactly. I never asked, not really my place. From what I do know secondhand, it was bad enough to cause her to quit that job, nuke everything Chikara-related she'd done, and completely leave the fandom. I heavily suspect it had something to do with Quackenbush.

The podcast shifted to another host and I grabbed the last drafts of the histories written at the time from where they'd been stashed on the 101. Been hosting them ever since. We put so much time into those, I just wasn't keen on letting them go to waste.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jun 10, 2023 0:19:35 GMT -5 Rave said:

Jun 9, 2023 6:12:14 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Wrestling Is also did terrible attendance wise outside of a few of them I believe. Art was helmed by Colt at the beginning I believe so it did ok and actually stood out, Fun was the closest one to CHIKARA that people clung to so they felt adjacent enough that they got fans (Even tried to revive but it was under Kobald so I'm glad it failed), but the other ones? One was basically just a feeder promotion for Ring of Honor rookies and Delirious, and then there was one other that was like Midwest run that only ran like two shows, and the attendances were so bad and the production so shit that I don't think either of them actually got DVDs of their cards... and ironically, that was the first promotion shut down by Condor and The Flood, so it was like, the domino effect to the return storyline lol.

Ah, this. One of the Wrestling Is promotions, Awesome IIRC, was up here. It didn't last long. No idea who was running it, but they had the bright idea to try to run a show in northwestern Vermont, about a half hour north from where I live, in the dead of winter. Predictably, it was cancelled. I would've loved to attend, but not enough to risk that deathtrap.

Jun 9, 2023 6:04:38 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Once again Rave I appreciate that you are the CHIKARA encyclopedia, and also, I was on Twitter watching those Scavenger hunts LIVE, you were doing the wrestling gods work during that era lol

A whole bunch of us worked pretty damn hard during that time! It's too bad the livestreams themselves are long gone, but there's something of a reason for that.

When all this started, we had one person take charge of just about everything. She did so much heavy lifting. Hosted the original CI15 podcast, wrangled the histories/wrote some of them/hosted them when the original hosting plan fell through, filmed the livestreams, basically kept everyone in line. I know she was in contact with Quackenbush during at least some of this, especially when said original hosting plan fell through. We tried getting them on Wikipedia, that didn't end well and both of us were nearly banned, I think a few other people who got involved actually were banned, it was a disaster. So, after Chikara restarted, she was hired on. IIRC it was for a merch-related position, though it's been nearly a decade since then so I'm not completely sure of that.

Well, something happened. To this day, I don't know what exactly. I never asked, not really my place. From what I do know secondhand, it was bad enough to cause her to quit that job, nuke everything Chikara-related she'd done, and completely leave the fandom. I heavily suspect it had something to do with Quackenbush.

The podcast shifted to another host and I grabbed the last drafts of the histories written at the time from where they'd been stashed on the 101. Been hosting them ever since. We put so much time into those, I just wasn't keen on letting them go to waste.

Is who you're referencing Wiggy? Wiggy was and is great, and you are correct, ironically she was a major crux of CHIKARA's info getting dumped online and them going down for it, unable to recover, I covered it as it was going on here, with her permission, threads still available to see too, and shared the tweets and such.

Edit: Here it is! officialfan.proboards.com/thread/601700/chikara-shuts-bullying-allegations-fallout

Most of those tweets are deleted now, but some remain. I distinctly remember Joey Janela fighting with her on Twitter and defending Quack on the onset... was not a good look for him. Soon after this spread and got confirmation of truth to some of the stories, CHIKARA wrestlers in unison quit the company in the span of 24 hours, and the company has never run another show. They were in pause anyway due to the pandemic, but that was it.

Some other trainees defended Quack as well during that time, including Joshua Wells, who also posted here and in my thread basically saying how great the Factory was and that he owed Quack a lot... and then he was outed in the SpeakingOut movement too and vanished off the face of the earth... really not a great trend.

[Rave]

Jun 10, 2023 0:34:19 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Is who you're referencing Wiggy? Wiggy was and is great, and you are correct, ironically she was a major crux of CHIKARA's info getting dumped online and them going down for it, unable to recover, I covered it as it was going on here, with her permission, threads still available to see too, and shared the tweets and such.

Nope, this wasn't Wiggy. This was an absolute sweetheart of a lady who we called Babs. Even if I could get in contact with her now, I doubt she'd even want to talk about it.

Some other trainees defended Quack as well during that time, including Joshua Wells, who also posted here and in my thread basically saying how great the Factory was and that he owed Quack a lot... and then he was outed in the SpeakingOut movement too and vanished off the face of the earth... really not a great trend.

Wells got full-on yeeted out of wrestling, and I couldn't say I was surprised. Him defending Quackenbush as much as he did gave me the vibe that something was off about him too, and that wasn't because I'd already had a go-round with him regarding announcing what was essentially a season reset in an unofficial Discord server instead of through official means.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jun 10, 2023 1:47:02 GMT -5 Rave said:

Jun 10, 2023 0:34:19 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Is who you're referencing Wiggy? Wiggy was and is great, and you are correct, ironically she was a major crux of CHIKARA's info getting dumped online and them going down for it, unable to recover, I covered it as it was going on here, with her permission, threads still available to see too, and shared the tweets and such.

Nope, this wasn't Wiggy. This was an absolute sweetheart of a lady who we called Babs. Even if I could get in contact with her now, I doubt she'd even want to talk about it.

Some other trainees defended Quack as well during that time, including Joshua Wells, who also posted here and in my thread basically saying how great the Factory was and that he owed Quack a lot... and then he was outed in the SpeakingOut movement too and vanished off the face of the earth... really not a great trend.

Wells got full-on yeeted out of wrestling, and I couldn't say I was surprised. Him defending Quackenbush as much as he did gave me the vibe that something was off about him too, and that wasn't because I'd already had a go-round with him regarding announcing what was essentially a season reset in an unofficial Discord server instead of through official means.

Yeah, good, no place for guys like that in wrestling, I hope Faraday still finds work since they were a tag team a lot of places

I remember Babs, I remember that name... yeah that's just sad too, she was definitely prominently in the fandom

[kingoftheindies]

Jun 10, 2023 0:34:19 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Jun 10, 2023 0:19:35 GMT -5 Rave said:

Ah, this. One of the Wrestling Is promotions, Awesome IIRC, was up here. It didn't last long. No idea who was running it, but they had the bright idea to try to run a show in northwestern Vermont, about a half hour north from where I live, in the dead of winter. Predictably, it was cancelled. I would've loved to attend, but not enough to risk that deathtrap.

A whole bunch of us worked pretty damn hard during that time! It's too bad the livestreams themselves are long gone, but there's something of a reason for that.

When all this started, we had one person take charge of just about everything. She did so much heavy lifting. Hosted the original CI15 podcast, wrangled the histories/wrote some of them/hosted them when the original hosting plan fell through, filmed the livestreams, basically kept everyone in line. I know she was in contact with Quackenbush during at least some of this, especially when said original hosting plan fell through. We tried getting them on Wikipedia, that didn't end well and both of us were nearly banned, I think a few other people who got involved actually were banned, it was a disaster. So, after Chikara restarted, she was hired on. IIRC it was for a merch-related position, though it's been nearly a decade since then so I'm not completely sure of that.

Well, something happened. To this day, I don't know what exactly. I never asked, not really my place. From what I do know secondhand, it was bad enough to cause her to quit that job, nuke everything Chikara-related she'd done, and completely leave the fandom. I heavily suspect it had something to do with Quackenbush.

The podcast shifted to another host and I grabbed the last drafts of the histories written at the time from where they'd been stashed on the 101. Been hosting them ever since. We put so much time into those, I just wasn't keen on letting them go to waste.

Is who you're referencing Wiggy? Wiggy was and is great, and you are correct, ironically she was a major crux of CHIKARA's info getting dumped online and them going down for it, unable to recover, I covered it as it was going on here, with her permission, threads still available to see too, and shared the tweets and such.

Edit: Here it is! officialfan.proboards.com/thread/601700/chikara-shuts-bullying-allegations-fallout

Most of those tweets are deleted now, but some remain. I distinctly remember Joey Janela fighting with her on Twitter and defending Quack on the onset... was not a good look for him. Soon after this spread and got confirmation of truth to some of the stories, CHIKARA wrestlers in unison quit the company in the span of 24 hours, and the company has never run another show. They were in pause anyway due to the pandemic, but that was it.

Some other trainees defended Quack as well during that time, including Joshua Wells, who also posted here and in my thread basically saying how great the Factory was and that he owed Quack a lot... and then he was outed in the SpeakingOut movement too and vanished off the face of the earth... really not a great trend.

Joey didn't defend Quak. He attacked Wiggy because she was working for CZW as well and she didn't burry the. Her response was basically she never had any issues in CZW nor did she see anything so it wasn't her place to say anything, and Joey wouldn't let up even calling her a liar.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jun 10, 2023 5:39:00 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

Jun 10, 2023 0:34:19 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Is who you're referencing Wiggy? Wiggy was and is great, and you are correct, ironically she was a major crux of CHIKARA's info getting dumped online and them going down for it, unable to recover, I covered it as it was going on here, with her permission, threads still available to see too, and shared the tweets and such.

Edit: Here it is! officialfan.proboards.com/thread/601700/chikara-shuts-bullying-allegations-fallout

Most of those tweets are deleted now, but some remain. I distinctly remember Joey Janela fighting with her on Twitter and defending Quack on the onset... was not a good look for him. Soon after this spread and got confirmation of truth to some of the stories, CHIKARA wrestlers in unison quit the company in the span of 24 hours, and the company has never run another show. They were in pause anyway due to the pandemic, but that was it.

Some other trainees defended Quack as well during that time, including Joshua Wells, who also posted here and in my thread basically saying how great the Factory was and that he owed Quack a lot... and then he was outed in the SpeakingOut movement too and vanished off the face of the earth... really not a great trend.

Joey didn't defend Quak. He attacked Wiggy because she was working for CZW as well and she didn't burry the. Her response was basically she never had any issues in CZW nor did she see anything so it wasn't her place to say anything, and Joey wouldn't let up even calling her a liar.

Right, I misremembered, either way he deleted the tweets, and the rumor was AEW's legal team told him to

I'm not really shocked Joey didn't last on the AEW roster tbh

[kingoftheindies]

Jun 10, 2023 5:54:50 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Jun 10, 2023 5:39:00 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

Joey didn't defend Quak. He attacked Wiggy because she was working for CZW as well and she didn't burry the. Her response was basically she never had any issues in CZW nor did she see anything so it wasn't her place to say anything, and Joey wouldn't let up even calling her a liar.

Right, I misremembered, either way he deleted the tweets, and the rumor was AEW's legal team told him to

I'm not really shocked Joey didn't last on the AEW roster tbh

Yeah not to derail the thread, but Wiggy was liked by a lot of wrestlers and I heard a lot of the AEW roster was pretty pissed Janela went at her cause many worked with her in Chikara and/or CZW.

Anyways back to Chikara

I've always wondered why Donst disappeared from CHIKARA after the shutdown considering he was still appearing in the Wrestling Is... sister promotions. I think the "working death match" thing is laughable because years before that, UltraMantis Black participated in IWA Deep South Carnage Cup 2007 of all places but at the same time, I think the relationship between Deep South and CHIKARA played a role. However, CHIKARA people working in death matches shouldn't be a detractor.

I'm just going based off of what Donst said when he was asked why he wasnt with CHIKARA anymore. Quack basically wanted him to give up AIW and Donst said no and Quack wasn't happy that Donst wanted to work deathmatches

[lucas_lee]

Jun 10, 2023 5:39:00 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

Jun 10, 2023 0:34:19 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Is who you're referencing Wiggy? Wiggy was and is great, and you are correct, ironically she was a major crux of CHIKARA's info getting dumped online and them going down for it, unable to recover, I covered it as it was going on here, with her permission, threads still available to see too, and shared the tweets and such.

Edit: Here it is! officialfan.proboards.com/thread/601700/chikara-shuts-bullying-allegations-fallout

Most of those tweets are deleted now, but some remain. I distinctly remember Joey Janela fighting with her on Twitter and defending Quack on the onset... was not a good look for him. Soon after this spread and got confirmation of truth to some of the stories, CHIKARA wrestlers in unison quit the company in the span of 24 hours, and the company has never run another show. They were in pause anyway due to the pandemic, but that was it.

Some other trainees defended Quack as well during that time, including Joshua Wells, who also posted here and in my thread basically saying how great the Factory was and that he owed Quack a lot... and then he was outed in the SpeakingOut movement too and vanished off the face of the earth... really not a great trend.

Joey didn't defend Quak. He attacked Wiggy because she was working for CZW as well and she didn't burry the. Her response was basically she never had any issues in CZW nor did she see anything so it wasn't her place to say anything, and Joey wouldn't let up even calling her a liar.

I'm still shocked DJ wormed his way out of getting dragged through the mud, besides what he did with his womens roster. DJ being a creep towards women and trainees is an open secret in wrestling.

[Hernan]

Jun 10, 2023 6:58:32 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

Anyways back to Chikara

I've always wondered why Donst disappeared from CHIKARA after the shutdown considering he was still appearing in the Wrestling Is... sister promotions. I think the "working death match" thing is laughable because years before that, UltraMantis Black participated in IWA Deep South Carnage Cup 2007 of all places but at the same time, I think the relationship between Deep South and CHIKARA played a role. However, CHIKARA people working in death matches shouldn't be a detractor.

I'm just going based off of what Donst said when he was asked why he wasnt with CHIKARA anymore. Quack basically wanted him to give up AIW and Donst said no and Quack wasn't happy that Donst wanted to work deathmatches

Totally unrelated but kinda reminds me of when Ethan Page stopped competing for Danny Daniels' AAW after Daniels told him he cannot compete in other promotions in the area unless it is AAW. Ethan Page was like "no thanks, I am not signed to anything that pevents me that" and walked away.

[Alice Syndrome]

Anyone remember when all the people still using their Chikara mask lost them and turned out to be really ridiculously good looking?

[IgnahtaSempria]

Jun 10, 2023 4:40:38 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Jun 10, 2023 1:47:02 GMT -5 Rave said:

Nope, this wasn't Wiggy. This was an absolute sweetheart of a lady who we called Babs. Even if I could get in contact with her now, I doubt she'd even want to talk about it.

Wells got full-on yeeted out of wrestling, and I couldn't say I was surprised. Him defending Quackenbush as much as he did gave me the vibe that something was off about him too, and that wasn't because I'd already had a go-round with him regarding announcing what was essentially a season reset in an unofficial Discord server instead of through official means.

Yeah, good, no place for guys like that in wrestling, I hope Faraday still finds work since they were a tag team a lot of places

I remember Babs, I remember that name... yeah that's just sad too, she was definitely prominently in the fandom

He does, he now works under the name "Athrun Amada".

[kingoftheindies]

Jun 10, 2023 7:35:30 GMT -5 lucas_lee said:

Jun 10, 2023 5:39:00 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

Joey didn't defend Quak. He attacked Wiggy because she was working for CZW as well and she didn't burry the. Her response was basically she never had any issues in CZW nor did she see anything so it wasn't her place to say anything, and Joey wouldn't let up even calling her a liar.

I'm still shocked DJ wormed his way out of getting dragged through the mud, besides what he did with his womens roster. DJ being a creep towards women and trainees is an open secret in wrestling.

Not to dwell on this but wouldn't shock me if wrestlers had to sign non disparagement agreements when working for CZW. Like or dislike DJ but I remember when he bought the company from Zandig he flat out said that too much dirty laundry was aired and he wanted to ensure things were kept in house. I know other big talent who came to work for CZW since DJ bought the company have said they may not personally like DJ but he's easier to deal with and more professional than Zandig in terms of business. Of course, I've also heard since getting married DJ has mellowed out and isn't as big of a cocky dbag as he was. Not to excuse him for any wrongdoings but I've heard people say that he's changed so hopefully that's true

[kingoftheindies]

Jun 10, 2023 7:59:41 GMT -5 Alice Syndrome said:

Anyone remember when all the people still using their Chikara mask lost them and turned out to be really ridiculously good looking?

Semi related but there were quite a few wrestlers who actually had falling outs with Quack because they didn't want to wear masks

[Red Mage Riot]

Jun 10, 2023 9:36:51 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

Jun 10, 2023 7:59:41 GMT -5 Alice Syndrome said:

Anyone remember when all the people still using their Chikara mask lost them and turned out to be really ridiculously good looking?

Semi related but there were quite a few wrestlers who actually had falling outs with Quack because they didn't want to wear masks

I know for a stone cold fact Jonathan Gresham was one.

[Hernan]

Jun 10, 2023 9:36:51 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

Jun 10, 2023 7:59:41 GMT -5 Alice Syndrome said:

Anyone remember when all the people still using their Chikara mask lost them and turned out to be really ridiculously good looking?

Semi related but there were quite a few wrestlers who actually had falling outs with Quack because they didn't want to wear masks

I think back in 2007/2008, Jigsaw stopped appearing in CHIKARA for a brief time because he started competing unmasked in Ring of Honor, which pissed off Quack and this was incorporated in storyline once Jigsaw came back in late 2008.

[kingoftheindies]

Jun 10, 2023 10:19:27 GMT -5 Hernan said:

Jun 10, 2023 9:36:51 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

Semi related but there were quite a few wrestlers who actually had falling outs with Quack because they didn't want to wear masks

I think back in 2007/2008, Jigsaw stopped appearing in CHIKARA for a brief time because he started competing unmasked in Ring of Honor, which pissed off Quack and this was incorporated in storyline once Jigsaw came back in late 2008.

There's that, I also believe Lince Dorado got blackballed from CHIKARA for showing up in a youtube interview or something unmasked

[Hernan]

Jun 10, 2023 10:22:23 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

Jun 10, 2023 10:19:27 GMT -5 Hernan said:

I think back in 2007/2008, Jigsaw stopped appearing in CHIKARA for a brief time because he started competing unmasked in Ring of Honor, which pissed off Quack and this was incorporated in storyline once Jigsaw came back in late 2008.

There's that, I also believe Lince Dorado got blackballed from CHIKARA for showing up in a youtube interview or something unmasked

Yeah, I think it was circa 2011 and the video had Kevin Nash & Scott Hall with Hall saying something among the lines "...and there's Lince Dorado". I didn't watch the video myself though.

[dpg]

I've only heard vague stuff about this, so this thread is very interesting and informative! Shutting down for a year, as an outsider, looks... stupid. Especially just for a storyline.

[Ultimo Gallos]

Jun 10, 2023 7:35:30 GMT -5 lucas_lee said:

Jun 10, 2023 5:39:00 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

Joey didn't defend Quak. He attacked Wiggy because she was working for CZW as well and she didn't burry the. Her response was basically she never had any issues in CZW nor did she see anything so it wasn't her place to say anything, and Joey wouldn't let up even calling her a liar.

I'm still shocked DJ wormed his way out of getting dragged through the mud, besides what he did with his womens roster. DJ being a creep towards women and trainees is an open secret in wrestling.

Very very known secret. Dj also supposedly was making trainees bump on concrete.

Wiggy is still around.