Ultimo Gallos
Grimlock
Dreams SUCK!Nightmares live FOREVER!
Posts: 14,447
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Jun 9, 2023 8:13:14 GMT -5
One of those ideas that's so bad that you know that the person responsible had to have been a complete nightmare to communicate with on any professional level. Is this where I bring up that Quack sent out emails to every talent letting everyone publicly know who did well and who f***ed up on shows and exactly how they f***ed up in excruciating detail? Sure sounds like fun communication to me! Those emails ..... First time I saw them figured they were fake.Then realized nope who I got them from had connections to Chikara. Before the shutdown I had seen a little of Chikara and it wasn't for me. After the shut down I tried watching the comeback shows...nope still not for me. Oddly I did enjoy Camp Leapfrog the short while that existed.
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Post by Red Mage Riot on Jun 9, 2023 8:32:39 GMT -5
The 2014 shows after the comeback from the shutdown are actually, mostly, really fun watches. Then 2015 hits and the interminable, confusing, overbooked COTI shit hit, and....man, it was hard to invest.
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Post by Hernan on Jun 9, 2023 9:51:18 GMT -5
It's tragic in the Shakespearean sense; Quack really is capable of making fantastic stories, and the whole idea of a wrestling ARG was a very good one and really hit the zeitgeist. But he was absolutely never going to pull it off, because he didn't really understand the online nature of it, and he did absolutely nothing to keep people interested enough to dig. His biggest mistake was being so committed to kayfabe that he refused to make it clear that the Wrestling Is shows were Chikara. That needed to be apparent, and absolutely they should have filled up the canceled Chikara dates on the schedule with Wrestling Is shows, so fans in those towns didn't feel rejected. He did not need to kill all his momentum with Chikara, if people had been led to understand that they were still getting their Chikara fix with "Chikara" shut down. Wrestling Is also did terrible attendance wise outside of a few of them I believe. Art was helmed by Colt at the beginning I believe so it did ok and actually stood out, Fun was the closest one to CHIKARA that people clung to so they felt adjacent enough that they got fans (Even tried to revive but it was under Kobald so I'm glad it failed), but the other ones? One was basically just a feeder promotion for Ring of Honor rookies and Delirious, and then there was one other that was like Midwest run that only ran like two shows, and the attendances were so bad and the production so shit that I don't think either of them actually got DVDs of their cards... and ironically, that was the first promotion shut down by Condor and The Flood, so it was like, the domino effect to the return storyline lol. Are you talking about Wrestling Is Heart (aka School of Roc) and Wrestling Is Intense? If yes, the CHIKARA influenced shows have been released and are on IWTV.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,986
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Post by chazraps on Jun 9, 2023 10:05:51 GMT -5
The 2014 shows after the comeback from the shutdown are actually, mostly, really fun watches. Then 2015 hits and the interminable, confusing, overbooked COTI shit hit, and....man, it was hard to invest. Yeah, I enjoy 2014 Chikara - particularly for Smooth Sailing Ashley Remington (who I wish had a comp of all of his matches/promos) Chikara ended for me with the split from Smart Mark and the launch of Chikaratopia as their online hub. Too much of an island with not enough reward for having to search for it.
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Post by JasonVoorhees1988 on Jun 9, 2023 11:54:23 GMT -5
Is there anywhere to watch full CHIKARA shows? I I've seen High Noon, it used to be on YouTube, and I've seen dozens of other matches.
Id love to go watch thru the whole history.
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Post by Red Mage Riot on Jun 9, 2023 11:57:53 GMT -5
Is there anywhere to watch full CHIKARA shows? I I've seen High Noon, it used to be on YouTube, and I've seen dozens of other matches. Id love to go watch thru the whole history. independentwrestling.tv has their catalog, and it's pretty cheap, subscription wise. Honestly, I'd advise starting a watch through in 06, as that's where the myth arc of the company really kicks in. I mean, technically it starts at Tag World 05 with Hero turning on Quack, but 06 is where things really get rolling, quality wise.
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Post by Hernan on Jun 9, 2023 11:58:43 GMT -5
Is there anywhere to watch full CHIKARA shows? I I've seen High Noon, it used to be on YouTube, and I've seen dozens of other matches. Id love to go watch thru the whole history. IndependentWrestling.tv Most of their catalogue is there.
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Post by theresalwaysanegon on Jun 9, 2023 12:10:20 GMT -5
CHIKARA was my absolute favorite thing in wrestling from 2008-2012. This angle sucked, it made everything so hard to follow and my friends who I went to shows with pretty much gave up on it after this. I tried getting back into CHIKARA when they came back from the shutdown, but something was missing and it never clicked again for me like it once did. Really made wrestling kind of a bummer for me after that and for a couple years I just watched WWE pay per views and followed indy results until New Japan pulled me back in. Some of my best memories are going to CHIKARA shows with my brother and two of my best friends and it's such a shame how the company ended and all the horrible things that came out about what was going on behind the scenes. Looking back the shutdown really feels like the beginning of the end. Can't believe it's been ten years.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jun 9, 2023 15:56:53 GMT -5
The 2014 shows after the comeback from the shutdown are actually, mostly, really fun watches. Then 2015 hits and the interminable, confusing, overbooked COTI shit hit, and....man, it was hard to invest. Yeah, I enjoy 2014 Chikara - particularly for Smooth Sailing Ashley Remington (who I wish had a comp of all of his matches/promos) Oh man, I was intensely sure where the booking was going. Icarus kills Deucalion in the steel cage, all the good guys run down to celebrate with him. Remington, nice man that he is, holds open the ropes for Icarus. I was just so very certain he was going to turn on Icarus and reveal himself the secret leader of the Flood. This new guy who showed up about the exact same time the Flood did, hiding in plain sight. Nobody suspecting him because he's so nice. It looked so perfect.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 235,947
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 9, 2023 16:25:14 GMT -5
The 2014 shows after the comeback from the shutdown are actually, mostly, really fun watches. Then 2015 hits and the interminable, confusing, overbooked COTI shit hit, and....man, it was hard to invest. Yeah, I enjoy 2014 Chikara - particularly for Smooth Sailing Ashley Remington (who I wish had a comp of all of his matches/promos) Chikara ended for me with the split from Smart Mark and the launch of Chikaratopia as their online hub. Too much of an island with not enough reward for having to search for it. Yeah CHIKARAtopia was... not great, their quality kinda went off a cliff when they didn't have SmartMark's cameras too 2014 was good, there was a lot of quality wrestling for the first few years after the comeback, but it fell off, and I stated a possible reason as to why tbh I do wonder how CHIKARA would be if the scandals didn't happen. My thought is they'd have become a feeder system for AEW because of how many ties were there, especially given how many alumni have gotten either signed or steady work as enhancement talent already there that were CHIKARA vets Only ones who really haven't that I desire are Ultramantis, Hallowicked, Delirious and Frightmare... I miss my Envoy... I really miss Mantis, give that man TV time, god PLEASE...
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jun 9, 2023 16:42:05 GMT -5
Yeah, I enjoy 2014 Chikara - particularly for Smooth Sailing Ashley Remington (who I wish had a comp of all of his matches/promos) Chikara ended for me with the split from Smart Mark and the launch of Chikaratopia as their online hub. Too much of an island with not enough reward for having to search for it. Yeah CHIKARAtopia was... not great, their quality kinda went off a cliff when they didn't have SmartMark's cameras too 2014 was good, there was a lot of quality wrestling for the first few years after the comeback, but it fell off, and I stated a possible reason as to why tbh I do wonder how CHIKARA would be if the scandals didn't happen. My thought is they'd have become a feeder system for AEW because of how many ties were there, especially given how many alumni have gotten either signed or steady work as enhancement talent already there that were CHIKARA vets Only ones who really haven't that I desire are Ultramantis, Hallowicked, Delirious and Frightmare... I miss my Envoy... I really miss Mantis, give that man TV time, god PLEASE... Do you think Quack would play nicely with AEW long term? With his ego, I'm not so sure, and a lot of the talent who worked Chikara who were with AEW from day one didn't have the best relationship with Quack by that point. There were also issues with Chikara purposefully churning out trainees that couldn't work outside of Chikara so you'd have a small subset of the roster who could work anything passable with Chikara's bigger names if there was any sort of relationship.
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Post by Celexa Bliss 54 on Jun 9, 2023 16:53:42 GMT -5
In my mind, CHIKARA ended at the end of the 2016 season. That was the last time the storyline felt high stakes and also the last time many of the company's top stars were seen.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 235,947
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 9, 2023 16:54:25 GMT -5
Yeah CHIKARAtopia was... not great, their quality kinda went off a cliff when they didn't have SmartMark's cameras too 2014 was good, there was a lot of quality wrestling for the first few years after the comeback, but it fell off, and I stated a possible reason as to why tbh I do wonder how CHIKARA would be if the scandals didn't happen. My thought is they'd have become a feeder system for AEW because of how many ties were there, especially given how many alumni have gotten either signed or steady work as enhancement talent already there that were CHIKARA vets Only ones who really haven't that I desire are Ultramantis, Hallowicked, Delirious and Frightmare... I miss my Envoy... I really miss Mantis, give that man TV time, god PLEASE... Do you think Quack would play nicely with AEW long term? With his ego, I'm not so sure, and a lot of the talent who worked Chikara who were with AEW from day one didn't have the best relationship with Quack by that point. There were also issues with Chikara purposefully churning out trainees that couldn't work outside of Chikara so you'd have a small subset of the roster who could work anything passable with Chikara's bigger names if there was any sort of relationship. I think he would because in the end Quack gives a shit about money and I imagine if AEW paid him handsomely enough, given he was working with WWE a bit before the scandals Idk, I do know he had falling outs with a lot of them, so maybe not, but it does show that CHIKARA's family was tight knit despite Quack, as the ones who didn't get blackballed still seem like very close friends who help get each other work.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 235,947
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 9, 2023 16:56:55 GMT -5
In my mind, CHIKARA ended at the end of the 2016 season. That was the last time the storyline felt high stakes and also the last time many of the company's top stars were seen. For me it pretty much ended at the Secret Season. It's when the quality of the wrestlers and matches really started to taper off and I was pissed beyond all recognition that they did Mantis' Grand Championship win on a taped season and then threw it behind a paywall And then Coronado's neverending reign happened and I checked out. Glad I was rewarded for that too given Coronado was outed as a total f***ing creep.
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Post by Celexa Bliss 54 on Jun 9, 2023 17:04:42 GMT -5
In my mind, CHIKARA ended at the end of the 2016 season. That was the last time the storyline felt high stakes and also the last time many of the company's top stars were seen. For me it pretty much ended at the Secret Season. It's when the quality of the wrestlers and matches really started to taper off and I was pissed beyond all recognition that they did Mantis' Grand Championship win on a taped season and then threw it behind a paywall And then Coronado's neverending reign happened and I checked out. Glad I was rewarded for that too given Coronado was outed as a total f***ing creep. Honestly, Mantis' title win happening there is why I don't count it. I'd have preferred Mantis never win the title, rather than win it on a season half the fanbase wouldn't even see.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 235,947
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 9, 2023 17:07:28 GMT -5
For me it pretty much ended at the Secret Season. It's when the quality of the wrestlers and matches really started to taper off and I was pissed beyond all recognition that they did Mantis' Grand Championship win on a taped season and then threw it behind a paywall And then Coronado's neverending reign happened and I checked out. Glad I was rewarded for that too given Coronado was outed as a total f***ing creep. Honestly, Mantis' title win happening there is why I don't count it. I'd have preferred Mantis never win the title, rather than win it on a season half the fanbase wouldn't even see. Whole thing was a mess. They had to treat Whisper like nobody knew who he was because he had an entire arc on the secret season... so then why did everyone not know who he was? I know they did the secret season because wrestlers like Kimberlee got called up and they wanted to write them out respectfully but it did not go over well. Whisper was also a hundred percent them trying to do whatever the hell Condron wanted to do with Snowflake but... without any clue on what Condron wanted to do... as for Condron that's a whole other f***ing beast of CHIKARA drama lol
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Post by Celexa Bliss 54 on Jun 9, 2023 17:20:18 GMT -5
Honestly, Mantis' title win happening there is why I don't count it. I'd have preferred Mantis never win the title, rather than win it on a season half the fanbase wouldn't even see. Whole thing was a mess. They had to treat Whisper like nobody knew who he was because he had an entire arc on the secret season... so then why did everyone not know who he was? I know they did the secret season because wrestlers like Kimberlee got called up and they wanted to write them out respectfully but it did not go over well. Whisper was also a hundred percent them trying to do whatever the hell Condron wanted to do with Snowflake but... without any clue on what Condron wanted to do... as for Condron that's a whole other f***ing beast of CHIKARA drama lol The thing for me was, after Top Banana, I was excited for where things were going. Kimberlee was the new Grand Champion, The Colony were back together, Battleborn seemed to be set up as the next big heel stable, and the vibe just felt very positive to me. 2016 comes and about midway through the season, Eddie Kingston, Kevin Condron and The BDK have vanished without warning, they put the belt back on Hallowicked right after they did the money match of Kimberlee vs. Heidi Lovelace, and they started bringing in newcomers who just weren't very good, like Warren Barksdale, the Hawks, the Sea Stars (who have improved), and the shellfish wrestlers. The writing was on the wall and after they did the season premiere where Mantis had the belt and nobody knew how he won it lol (didn't he lose it before the episode he won it in had even aired?) And don't get me started on the Chuck Taylor TM nonsense.
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Post by Hernan on Jun 9, 2023 17:25:06 GMT -5
Whole thing was a mess. They had to treat Whisper like nobody knew who he was because he had an entire arc on the secret season... so then why did everyone not know who he was? I know they did the secret season because wrestlers like Kimberlee got called up and they wanted to write them out respectfully but it did not go over well. Whisper was also a hundred percent them trying to do whatever the hell Condron wanted to do with Snowflake but... without any clue on what Condron wanted to do... as for Condron that's a whole other f***ing beast of CHIKARA drama lol The thing for me was, after Top Banana, I was excited for where things were going. Kimberlee was the new Grand Champion, The Colony were back together, Battleborn seemed to be set up as the next big heel stable, and the vibe just felt very positive to me. 2016 comes and about midway through the season, Eddie Kingston, Kevin Condron and The BDK have vanished without warning, they put the belt back on Hallowicked right after they did the money match of Kimberlee vs. Heidi Lovelace, and they started bringing in newcomers who just weren't very good, like Warren Barksdale, the Hawks, the Sea Stars (who have improved), and the shellfish wrestlers. The writing was on the wall and after they did the season premiere where Mantis had the belt and nobody knew how he won it lol (didn't he lose it before the episode he won it in had even aired?) And don't get me started on the Chuck Taylor TM nonsense. I'll be honest. I was always rooting for Xyberhawx2000 to win King of Trios but apparently, Quack didn't see nothing in them as they were always booked to lose in the first round of the tournament. Hermit Crab & Cajun Crawdad were guilty pleasures of mine, specially for Hermit Crab's theme song, which is a masterpiece haha.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jun 9, 2023 18:15:30 GMT -5
I'll be honest. I was always rooting for Xyberhawx2000 to win King of Trios but apparently, Quack didn't see nothing in them as they were always booked to lose in the first round of the tournament. Hermit Crab & Cajun Crawdad were guilty pleasures of mine, specially for Hermit Crab's theme song, which is a masterpiece haha. Cajun Crawdad turned into a damn compelling wrestler, specializing in huge spots and bumps. It happened so gradually, I had to watch it for several matches before I realized he wasn't boring me anymore. Even up through the end, Quack could write a compelling story. Dasher's heel turn and rivalry with Boomer were fire. The revolt of the masked jobbers was an amazing moment. But it seemed like he could never end a storyline well. There was the constant problem of him alienating or losing people he was building up... Condron probably hurt the most, there. His character was really interesting, and if his stable had been the next big threat instead of the COTI, we might be talking about a very different Chikara from then on. But he also kept leaving fans with a feeling of "that's it?" Like, Ashley Vox becomes Oceanea, and then... is Oceanea. That's it? And Ultramantis's title win was so disappointing, with such an obvious superior alternative, it's maddening. We see in the current shows, he's champion. And we know there's this flashback season. So we watch along, he gets the title shot. And then when he has the title match... he loses. And everyone but Hallowicked immediately gets really confused: that's not how it happened! And so now back in the present-day shows, they both have a title, and so they have to resolve it with a title match at a live show. Boom: the secret season is must-watch, UltraMantis's big moment isn't confined to a tiny taped event, Chikara's inventive storytelling gets buzz.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Jun 9, 2023 18:36:53 GMT -5
As someone who loved Chikara so much that I almost went to school in Philly so I could train at the Wrestle Factory (talk about dodging a bullet, dear God) this whole saga is just too much. All I can say is that if the most widely accepted explanation for doing something dumb is "Dude is going through a divorce and is trying to spite his significant other" you severely f***ed up
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