XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,601
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Post by XIII on Jun 15, 2023 18:59:59 GMT -5
This isn't really the place for it, but I don't know when else it's ever gonna come up, but can I just say that I always hated Konnan's stupid little rolling clothesline? Konnan’s matches were so cookie cutter by the end. I could probably do a Konnan match from memory. Irish whip-rolling clothesline-Irish whip-leap frog-back kick-face buster-tequila sunrise
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Post by Celexa Bliss 54 on Jun 15, 2023 19:08:13 GMT -5
...didn't we have this debate in the Dynamite thread last night?? Does Konnan post on FAN?!
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jun 15, 2023 19:13:50 GMT -5
Not even saying this to be a jerk, but of all people how is Adam Cole the guy who gets so much body shaming? Sincerely, think there's a convergence of factors that make Cole a perfect storm, with the absolute biggest one being that he's spent the past six years being meaningfully pushed wherever he's went. You never heard shit about Cole's body when he was on the indies because yeah f***ing of course you didn't. It started its rumblings when he was getting hsi big pushes in NXT and it's only strengthened in AEW, and I think the big thing is that he's actually gotten this much push with the body he has, and that just actually bothers some people. You wouldn't hear this much about him if he was some midcard rando, he's become this magnet for all of the worst ideas about men's bodies because those ideas in their minds aren't actually holding him back at all, and that makes it worse to them. It's why it's always framing it as "Oh yeah well people won't take him seriously" or "Think of the casual fan" or "It's not good enough for the world title"; placing the body they have in mind as a virtue and a good that's actually for his benefit, and the key to fixing what they perceive to be a problem.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,299
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Post by Fade on Jun 15, 2023 20:29:03 GMT -5
It’s cosmetic business but he’s over. That’s what matters most.
When he got into really good shape during NXT, it was impressive and a lot of people positively commented on it, but that could have happened for a variety of reasons, and the same can be inferred by the current shape he’s in.
Wrestlers looks and types have changed. Ppl know that. Oldies (fans and wrestlers) are going to look fondly back on older physiques. It’s a non issue. Best thing to do is ignore.
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Post by Super Duper Dragunov on Jun 15, 2023 22:03:48 GMT -5
Okay so all body critiques are body shaming? These are millionaire pro wrestlers. In my opinion it's fair game to say someone doesn't have the body to be world champ. Guys who look like Cole can be world champions, but their style needs to exceed their appearance. Like Rush has a similar build (albeit taller) but his offense is so intense and crisp that it plays. Cole works like Edge. The idea that there is "the body to be a world champ" in the first place is setting an exceedingly narrow view of men's bodies, yes. It says that there is an ideal body, that there is a 'credible' kind of body that s believable in a fake fight even though the mainstreaming of mixed martials arts should have killed that dead by now, and frankly it's demanding that male wrestlers perform their gender in a very specific way that ties in to lots of other things. Also the idea that Cole's performance doesn't 'exceed his appearance' is just kinda funny to me. Cole works a swift, cardio-demanding style, and he is undeniably in amazing shape to be able to pull off the matches that he does. That's the important part. He is in shape where it matters most for his style and for his ability to perform. 1. To add to this if Cole did put on weight, he probably wouldn't be as fluid as he is in the ring. He would lose some of that swift, cardio-demanding style you mentioned. It would affect him as a wrestler, and "big muscly tough guy" Adam Cole sounds lame as hell. and 2. I pray one day that I'm fortunate enough to be "out of shape" like Adam Cole. I'd kill for that body, AND that hairline.
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Post by Andee9001 on Jun 15, 2023 22:26:48 GMT -5
I've said it before but i'll say it again - yes Cole is a smaller guy but it fits the style that he wrestles. Guy doesn't even have a bad body. I would love to have a body like his.
Seems like it's always guys like Cole, Owens, Zayn and even Kofi Kingston when he was champ who get shamed for not looking like 80s roided powerhouses despite being some of the most loved guys. Meanwhile guys like Eddie Guererro are no longer with us because steroids and HGH wrecked their internal organs.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,642
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Post by khali on Jun 15, 2023 23:10:53 GMT -5
It feels like I stepped into a time machine every time this comes up again. We learned a long time ago that being the most ripped guy doesn’t make you the toughest, and we’ve learned that guys of any body type can get over.
And here’s the other thing: Ultimate Warrior may have been in better *cosmetic* shape than Cole, but he sure as hell was never in as good of shape as Cole in the ring. Warrior looked great but but got gassed before any match started.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 237,313
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 16, 2023 0:44:02 GMT -5
People obsess over Adam Cole's body type to the point it's f***ing unhealthy, just gotta say it
Some people seem to actively wish the guy had an eating disorder or something like they can't exist without talking about his physique and it's just like... it's f***ing fine?
I'd LOVE to have that dude's physique, and I'll be brutally honest, most people who comment and degrade him on it probably wish they did too.
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Post by thegatewaydrug on Jun 16, 2023 1:02:35 GMT -5
Didnt he wrestle with a shirt on most of the time? Post-1996 yes. But at least he kept his skin nice with Oil of Olay. I think he even endorsed their products!
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Post by Mid-Carder on Jun 16, 2023 1:14:38 GMT -5
A guy not having a six-pack is where I draw the line for realism in my wrestling. More zombies, please
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Post by Super Duper Dragunov on Jun 16, 2023 3:20:29 GMT -5
A guy not having a six-pack is where I draw the line for realism in my wrestling. More zombies, please Well dammit that means I'll never be a wrestler... *kicks rocks*
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Post by uewfigfed on Jun 16, 2023 3:27:25 GMT -5
I hate to say it, but when Matt flippin Jackson looks more defined/bigger than you, than that’s an issue to me. mJF looked like he dwarfed Cole size wise when they matched up.
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Post by evilone on Jun 16, 2023 4:26:47 GMT -5
Konan is right but so are people here on the board that counter him. There are general rules in wrestling how you can blend in quicker and become a favorite, from the body size, body shape, mannerism, posing, move execution, catch phrases and so on. There is a literally wrestling 101 book somewhere out there that if you do it by the numbers there is big chance that you will break trough and be over with the crowd to some degree.
But, being specific at something is what will get you to the next level. That is something wrestler needs to find himself within himself. Once you find that specific part about yourself then everything else kind of doesn't matter or becomes your trademark. Someone said Mick Foley's attire or lack of taste or instinct to put something meaningful on yourself has become his trademark. But his lack of wardrobe talent is not what people have fell for him, they fell for him because of his persona and in-ring talent to do crazy stuff and act crazy. And suddenly his con or lack of talent when it comes to his wardrobe has become his trademark recognition piece.
As you can see you can turn your negatives into positives real quick if you excel at something above the others.
Those who are breaking into wrestling today really need to breakdown just three legendary wresters in order to come to conclusion what people expect and would like from a wrestler when it comes to looks and mannerism. Those three are Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior and Macho Man. You can tell quite easily how each of them has played into his best ability to mask it's negatives with one or two exaggerated positives.
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Post by jordo34 on Jun 16, 2023 4:47:46 GMT -5
cause Konnan is so bloody ripped himself, I don't care how they look, the whole "muscles tanned look" is so 80's and crap, Hogan looked ripped but was crap,
Look at MMA, guys who are legit tough guys come in all sizes, some with fat guts who will still knock your teeth out
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jun 16, 2023 5:03:19 GMT -5
Just so we are clear on who is the on saying this.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2023 5:13:29 GMT -5
What gets me is that Cole is pretty 'in scale' with AEW's generally smaller performers, so it seems weird to complain about this now.
I can understand the argument if we're talking Cole in NXT going blow-for-blow with Keith Lee or whomever, but even then, it's not like he wrestles a 'powerhouse' style.
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Post by SneakMan on Jun 16, 2023 5:46:13 GMT -5
Adam Cole is not particularly well-built - he’s not a tiny wall of muscle like Benoit and Guerrero, nor is he slim but cut like Hook. Physique-wise, he looks like a regular dude off the street.
The thing is, this look is not at all at odds with his wrestling style. Cole is not overpowering folks with his raw strength, he’s outlasting them with his stamina reserves and hitting big moves at key moments - if he’s a heel, he’s also throwing in a low blow or two. This makes sense with how he looks.
If Cole were trying to be a power wrestler or something the critiques about his physique would hold more merit, but as it is, it feels like people are trying to take a personal aesthetic preference and make it somehow objectively correct.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 237,313
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 16, 2023 5:50:58 GMT -5
I also think the "HIS BODY THO" argument is f***ing stupid when live paying crowds are almost consistently loudly screaming for the guy. Like he's getting TOP babyfaces reactions on a show where a lot of faces are loudly cheered, he's in the upper tier of them
I don't know why they think it's an issue when it isn't in the first place, but even in the crazy f***ed up universe where it did, the guy is over being who he is and looking as he does, and it almost feels like the people who hate him and comment on this shit can't take it, and have to screech about his body type for the 17th time thinking that's gonna be the time where it makes the difference
I never understood living in the past as hard as some of these guys do, it doesn't make you endearing, it just makes you an asshole...
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Post by eJm on Jun 16, 2023 6:18:21 GMT -5
The problem is that, again, this isn't some kind of formula where if you do this, this and sprinkle this, it works. It's never been how wrestling has worked.
For every Hulk Hogan, there's dozens of copycats that don't have the same charisma and style he does. For every Randy Savage, there's way too many people wearing colorful gear and shouting and doing movements as though that's what made him work. For every Mick Foley, there's people who perform on the indies who don't even reach GCW level, never mind national. There's other factors as mentioned and it has to all click together. Sometimes you get an Adam Cole and sometimes you get a Jackson Andrews.
And all of this becomes redundant where, despite how he looks to some people, Adam Cole is one of the biggest stars in the company. Ratings aren't a universal metric and they're not a perfect science but his match against MJF was the most watched thing on the show this week. The crowd was on their feet and screaming, especially after Double or Nothing where his match against Jericho wasn't exactly making Las Vegas react much. Even with it being the opener, people would have tuned out if that wasn't the case and nobody would have cheered if it wasn't. The whole debate died long ago but it's dead now.
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Post by chronocross on Jun 16, 2023 6:58:25 GMT -5
Just so we are clear on who is the on saying this. I think the camera shot is not flattering but he looks like he was in shape there even if Konnan's cardio was never the greatest.
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