What should be done about ROH?

[CeilingFan]

Should it become a full-fledged developmental?

[kingoftheindies]

Full time developmental is probably the best. I think Tony was really thrown off by the lack of interest for ROH on tv. There has been a lot of good from ROH but I think at this point it's best to go that way

["Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik]

I think it's fine as a lower tier promotion where folks can learn, work, try new things, get momentum, etc. Don't call it developmental or lean too heavily in that direction but use it as a way to learn and grow while also trying to put on good angles/matches.

[Gerard Gerard]

Am a sucker for all things AEW and even they’ve failed to get me on the ROH train. You see Athena or the like killing it and my inclination is less to watch ROH as much as it’s to lament her absence on the main shows.

On that note, Honor Club should included the PPVs if it’s even going to begin justifying its cover price. It’s essentially Dark with belts and the odd special otherwise.

[UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm]

do whatever in the meantime but keep trying to find a way to get it on TV

once/if it is on TV, completely separate it from AEW

[MolotovMocktail]

It should be what fills Collision. Like with WWECW, it’ll be an AEW show, but with the ROH branding and history.

ROH’s biggest issue has always been low production value. Tony Khan could certainly clean up the presentation while keeping it as a unique offering.

[Zone Was Wrong]

Sept 14, 2023 14:42:23 GMT -5 MolotovMocktail said:

It should be what fills Collision. Like with WWECW, it’ll be an AEW show, but with the ROH branding and history.

ROH’s biggest issue has always been low production value. Tony Khan could certainly clean up the presentation while keeping it as a unique offering.

Unfortunately that would require WBD to want ROH on the air in the first place, which they don't. Doubt Tony could get away with doing away with all the AEW branding and redoing a show with ROH instead. A good way to piss off the big wigs I imagine.

I'd keep on the track it's on for now and then once they get on Max, try and leverage ROH into the deal as well. Have it Max exclusive and do away with Honor Club. Doubt it'll happen but that would be what I'd like to happen anyways.

[Jindrak Mark]

If it can't get a TV deal then put it on Youtube. Even if it gets 100-150k views a week or so like Dark was getting in its later days it's still better than now when it's less than 20k on Honor Club. ROH in its current form is being watched by less people each week than Impact, MLW and even the NWA. Someone like Athena could be doing the best work of her career but hardly anyone is seeing it.

It's easy for me to say just throw it on Youtube though but there could be legal reasons why they can't.

[Kalmia]

You can't make it developmental while you're selling subscriptions for it. Well, you physically could, but it wouldn't be a good idea.

[TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out]

Sept 14, 2023 15:14:13 GMT -5 Kalmia said:

You can't make it developmental while you're selling subscriptions for it. Well, you physically could, but it wouldn't be a good idea.

Counterpoint: NXT

[Citizen Snips Has Left]

Sept 14, 2023 15:41:43 GMT -5 TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out said:

Sept 14, 2023 15:14:13 GMT -5 Kalmia said:

You can't make it developmental while you're selling subscriptions for it. Well, you physically could, but it wouldn't be a good idea.

Counterpoint: NXT

I’m going to guess that the vast majority of WWE Network subscriptions were sold on getting the main roster PPVs. NXT was not the main motivator of subscriptions.

[Kalmia]

Sept 14, 2023 15:41:43 GMT -5 TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out said:

Sept 14, 2023 15:14:13 GMT -5 Kalmia said:

You can't make it developmental while you're selling subscriptions for it. Well, you physically could, but it wouldn't be a good idea.

Counterpoint: NXT

I don't watch NXT so I might be wrong here, but isn't NXT on TV? There isn't a subscription service purely for NXT, is there?

[06vwgti]

Sept 14, 2023 15:50:36 GMT -5 Kalmia said:

Sept 14, 2023 15:41:43 GMT -5 TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out said:

Counterpoint: NXT

I don't watch NXT so I might be wrong here, but isn't NXT on TV? There isn't a subscription service purely for NXT, is there?

Before it was on TV it was network exclusive

[HMARK Center]

I'm enjoying ROH quite a bit of late, basically since the last PPV, but it's certainly tough to sell people on nearly $10 a month for a weekly show and the back catalog.

The goal is pretty clearly still to get ROH on some kind of TV platform, but obviously that's tough right now or it would've happened already; maybe another company would be interested, but Khan clearly wants to work with WBD and apparently didn't shop it elsewhere. Ideally what this would mean is integrating the weekly show, back catalog, AND the pay per views all on Honor Club so the deal would be more worthwhile, but at the same time Khan is fully aware that the ROH pay per views do good business and it's just likely the case that they're making more money with a smaller subscriber base to Honor Club but a relatively large number of people paying full price for the PPVs when they occur.

Given that, here's the best I can come up with for the moment, assuming it's cost effective:
-Take the weekly show on the road to smaller venues in markets where ROH has recognition and history. A smaller but more excited crowd is great, and the aesthetic would set the show apart from AEW in a way we've only seen recently with the PPVs like Death Before Dishonor. Tape multiple episodes at once, to whatever degree makes the most financial sense.
-If it doesn't make financial sense to bring the PPVs to Honor Club, then figure out how many PPVs a year you can do while keeping that financially possible. For the purposes of this little fantasy planning, let's say they can do four: the annual Anniversary show (early Feburary), Supercard of Honor (WM weekend/April), Death Before Dishonor (summer/July), and Final Battle (late December).
-Once you've done that, look at ways to dot the rest of the year with around 8-10 bigger cards that might not quite be PPV level, but are still a noticeable tick above the weekly show in importance. Schedule them for weekends in slightly larger venues (shoot for maybe 2,000 seats or so), have them run around 3 hours, and make them Honor Club exclusives, like what Impact currently does with its cards that are only on Impact Plus. This would be a great excuse to bring back old ROH shows and concepts like Glory By Honor, Survival of the Fittest, Steel Cage Warfare, etc. while keeping the big four PPVs as the biggest cards of the year, which you continue to book in the next step up in venues (e.g. around 4,000-5,000 seaters).
-Roster-wise, don't go *full* developmental: ROH's roster has always been a mix of different kinds of wrestlers at different experience levels, and if you want young wrestlers to work there it's good to have some vets around to work with them, anyway. Have a stable of pretty regular veterans, use a batch of young wrestlers who get to use it to grow their games and fine tune their acts, and keep doing what ROH was doing just before Khan bought it and what Khan's done of late and use it as a showcase for some independent wrestlers who can pop in for a run now and then, too. You can even keep using some AEW regulars now and then and still make it feel distinct from AEW itself.

The weekly show has a decent formula going for it right now, but what it really needs is more "destination" shows for the builds they're doing to arrive at. Death Before Dishonor was a really good show in July and was a nice launching point for a refocused product, they've built more feuds, solidified the roster somewhat, and gotten some solid character work and matches going, but when the next pay per view isn't until December and there's no bigger show along the way to pay some stuff off at before then, it's tough to keep the excitement going. Give ROH its own distinct feeling via using different venues, layouts, and camerawork/promos, have those big weekend cards like old school ROH did, and get all of that on the website to make it feel like a more worthwhile value.

...oh, and ROH also used to offer a PPV discount for HonorClub members, see if that's feasible again.

[TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out]

Sept 14, 2023 15:49:41 GMT -5 Citizen Snips Has Left said:

Sept 14, 2023 15:41:43 GMT -5 TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out said:

Counterpoint: NXT

I’m going to guess that the vast majority of WWE Network subscriptions were sold on getting the main roster PPVs. NXT was not the main motivator of subscriptions.

NXT was huge in getting people to keep their subscriptions going after WM/big PPVs. It isn't apples to oranges, especially with Honor Club still being a decade behind as a streaming service, but being "developmental" isn't itself an impediment for hardcore fans

[Rave]

Sept 14, 2023 15:51:46 GMT -5 06vwgti said:

Sept 14, 2023 15:50:36 GMT -5 Kalmia said:

I don't watch NXT so I might be wrong here, but isn't NXT on TV? There isn't a subscription service purely for NXT, is there?

Before it was on TV it was network exclusive

The show itself never was Network-exclusive, as it aired on Hulu. The early specials did too.

[Kalmia]

Sept 14, 2023 15:51:46 GMT -5 06vwgti said:

Sept 14, 2023 15:50:36 GMT -5 Kalmia said:

I don't watch NXT so I might be wrong here, but isn't NXT on TV? There isn't a subscription service purely for NXT, is there?

Before it was on TV it was network exclusive

Yeah, but it wasn't just a network for NXT though, was it? People also got the WWE PPVs and specials. I subscribed to the Network for a few months back then and didn't watch a second of NXT.

If AEW launched a network and put ROH on there, it would be different. This is a network purely for ROH though.

[mrbananagrabber]

Maybe Tony’s holding out for a streaming deal that could include ROH?

[Bo Rida]

Sept 14, 2023 15:49:41 GMT -5 Citizen Snips Has Left said:

Sept 14, 2023 15:41:43 GMT -5 TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out said:

Counterpoint: NXT

I’m going to guess that the vast majority of WWE Network subscriptions were sold on getting the main roster PPVs. NXT was not the main motivator of subscriptions.

I usually saw it as buying a Takeover and getting a main roster ppv free. Good deal at the time.

Honour club is not a good deal at this time. Basically every other major wrestling streaming service is better value. First thing is reduce the price and/or include ppvs.

[cassonova]

Why do I need ANOTHER streaming service when the ROH champions are all on AEW TV?