lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 6,734
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Post by lucas_lee on Sept 21, 2023 10:03:05 GMT -5
I f***ing hate the phrase "minor concussion". It's a goddamned brain injury that shut him down, even if briefly. On a scale of 1-5 maybe it's a two but even an 2 of anything disaster can cause future problems. And I know this isn't a Meltzer thing, it's general parlance, but if you want this stuff taken seriously that has got to change. If I remember right minor concussion isn't even a term used by medical professionals anymore. A concussion is still a brain bleed and you'll still have effects of it days after.
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Post by Cyno on Sept 21, 2023 10:35:27 GMT -5
I f***ing hate the phrase "minor concussion". It's a goddamned brain injury that shut him down, even if briefly. On a scale of 1-5 maybe it's a two but even an 2 of anything disaster can cause future problems. And I know this isn't a Meltzer thing, it's general parlance, but if you want this stuff taken seriously that has got to change. If I remember right minor concussion isn't even a term used by medical professionals anymore. A concussion is still a brain bleed and you'll still have effects of it days after. A lot of medical professionals prefer to use "mild traumatic brain injury," or mTBI, lately. Concussion is more of a layman's term.
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Derk!
Hank Scorpio
Yeah, "looks like."
Posts: 5,072
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Post by Derk! on Sept 21, 2023 11:03:07 GMT -5
Saw the vid before it was taken down. Yeah, some pretty legit criticisms from the guy. They should have sent someone to check on an obviously groggy Mox after that rough landing at the start and they could have called it then. Because as you can tell Mox was gonna tough it out regardless..
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Post by Ecks Ecks Ringout Ecks Ecks on Sept 21, 2023 11:09:39 GMT -5
I love AEW, but the excessive head/neck drops have always been my main complaint.
I trust the performers to be professionals and protect themselves during risky maneuvers, but the margin for error is so thin that one little slip-up can lead to disaster. I really wish they'd scale back the number of chances for those mistakes to happen.
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4real
Wade Wilson
Posts: 27,837
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Post by 4real on Sept 21, 2023 11:19:23 GMT -5
Mox looked very ropey and slow after Fenix’s first dive. Had a feeling something was up. There was no excuse for the finish though. Ref should have counted the 3 first time. Hope Mox is ok and now might be the time for him to take some time off.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Sept 21, 2023 11:27:33 GMT -5
Mox, take that goddamn holiday now please.
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Post by Cyno on Sept 21, 2023 13:00:20 GMT -5
Mox is going to need 2 weeks off minimum. Then he, Renee, and his neurologist will have to look out for any complications like Post-Concussion Syndrome.
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Sept 21, 2023 13:46:37 GMT -5
Ref and the docs should have noticed Moxley as soon as they saw the 'fencing response' after the dive.
That finish though, Jesus Christ, by not counting 3 you just expose everything they've built up to and Moxley getting his bell rung means less than shit. Then they drop him on his head again. Really really amateur stuff from Knox.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,581
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Post by Bo Rida on Sept 21, 2023 14:21:12 GMT -5
Ugh that was some of the worst shit I've since since Charlotte and Kairi. If I could tell Mox wasn't right after that first dive how the f*** could nobody else in the ring? Or on the monitors, or the doc at ringside.
Admittedly it did look like he'd shaken it off after a while but then the ref and Fenix still failed to protect him at the end. Sport and wrestling has got better with concussions but that was really bad, if a wrestler is in no state to protect themselves somebody else needs to do it for them.
Does show how good Mox is though, even on autopilot he can put on a good match.
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Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,707
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Post by Kalmia on Sept 21, 2023 14:31:28 GMT -5
I can buy that people didn't pick up that Mox was injured. He's a good seller and it seems like the rest of the match got back on track and went to plan. But the finish obviously didn't. The pin should have been counted and when it wasn't, Mox should not have been moved. If they didn't know before there was a problem they certainly must have when Mox didn't kick out. Why pick him up for another move?
I do think AEW should take another look at their procedures. Hammer home to wrestlers how important it is to admit they've had their bell rung (of course, some wrestlers may not realise it or be in a position to recognise it), reinforce to opponents and refs to always be on their guard, get ringside docs to be more cautious, and ask refs to count the three. If a healthy wrestler doesn't kick out when they should, that's their problem, not the ref's.
I'd take stopping a match when it isn't needed over continuing a match when it should have been stopped.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2023 15:33:36 GMT -5
People are starting to take Knox to task now for it as he seemingly has a history of this
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Derk!
Hank Scorpio
Yeah, "looks like."
Posts: 5,072
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Post by Derk! on Sept 21, 2023 15:45:28 GMT -5
People are starting to take Knox to task now for it as he seemingly has a history of this Jeez. I forgot about that. That could have ended up much worse
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Post by simplydurhamcalling on Sept 21, 2023 16:08:36 GMT -5
Did they not establish a proper concussion protocol after the Matt Hardy incident a few years back?
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,581
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Post by Bo Rida on Sept 21, 2023 16:49:48 GMT -5
Oh I forgot to say although Mox did look like that he'd shaken off the worst of it he hit his finisher during the ad-break which was another clear sign he was operating on instinct. Commentary on the fite feed usually relax a little during breaks but you could tell they were taken by surprise and scrambled to sell it.
Again they could have contrived a way to check on him before they came back from the break.
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Post by King (Super) Dragunov on Sept 21, 2023 17:37:21 GMT -5
Oh I forgot to say although Mox did look like that he'd shaken off the worst of it he hit his finisher during the ad-break which was another clear sign he was operating on instinct. Commentary on the fite feed usually relax a little during breaks but you could tell they were taken by surprise and scrambled to sell it. Again they could have contrived a way to check on him before they came back from the break. I even commented in my notebook about how it was odd he hit the Paradigm Shift during the PiP break. One thing I've noticed AEW does really, really well is wrestling around the commercial breaks, and that one shocked me. Makes sense in hindsight, esp if he was running on auto-pilot.
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Post by Mr Mario Mario on Sept 21, 2023 17:56:10 GMT -5
Not sure what happened to Mox at start whether he was concussed that or just shaken up. After few mins it did seem like he was ok but I’m not a medical professional so who knows but yeah the finish looked like s*** as soon as Knox didn’t count the pin so he should have just counted it
Would have saved Mox that 2nd nasty looking piledriver at the very least
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J. Hova
Don Corleone
Emotionally exhausted and morally bankrupt
Posts: 2,001
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Post by J. Hova on Sept 21, 2023 20:40:34 GMT -5
I can't resist.....two words....sloppy shop. Knox has always been the worst referee in a company full of below average referees. My understanding is that he is super tight with the Bucks. That is fantastic, put him in the office, I'm sure he makes a great cup of coffee. It isn't just that he is bad at everything involving being a referee, but he endangers the lives of the wrestlers. Multiple times.
Where is the medical staff? They should have the training to recognize these situations and the authority to stop the match. This isn't 1984 Mid South. This is 2023 where we actually try to protect wrestlers' long term health.
There needs to be someone with experience who can actually call an audible for the matches on headset for situations like this. Someone with real experience.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,304
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Post by The Ichi on Sept 21, 2023 20:52:20 GMT -5
Obviously a horrible situation and I risk sounding like Captain Hindsight but I really wish these things were giving the Austin Summerslam 97 treatment more. If someone is hurt, give a cue to do a quick roll-up finish and don't worry about how it looks. AEW is great but I do worry there's too much of a power-through mentality going around.
And yeah, thought before that Knox was bad and wondered if I was being too harsh but I really wasn't.
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Sept 21, 2023 21:26:49 GMT -5
My thoughts on this are basically this:
1: Moxley probably got hurt on that dive. I would assume he didn't realize he was concussed at first, I think he just thought he got his bell rung a bit and that he'd walk it off. The further the match went the more Mox realized he wasn't okay, until he decided to call an audible, after the piledriver.
2: I don't think the piledriver was actually Fenix's fault. It looks like Mox forgot to tuck his chin as a result of still being knocked loopy as a result of the dive. You'll notice on the second one Fenix puts both of his hands all the way under the back on Mox's head and pretty much tucked his chin personally, and Mox pretty much landed with his shoulders fully on Fenix's thighs. I think Mox asking for another one was a huge mistake. I get why he did it, I get why Fenix went along with it, but somebody should have told him no. Which brings me to-
3: Rick Knox f***ed up BAD here. As a referee in pro wrestling, when shit goes wrong you are supposed to be THE first line of defense. Shit went wrong. Like really wrong. He failed one of the basic things refs are taught when they're training: Call it like a shoot. If a wrestler does not kick out, you count the three. In the old days this was to avoid exposing the work, but now it's a safety thing. If a wrestler doesn't kick out assume there's a reason. Yes it is your job to make sure things go as planned to the best of your ability, but it's even more your job to protect the safety of the wrestlers. If they don't kick out in time? That's not your problem, that is for the booker, the promoter and the wrestlers to sort out afterwards. This isn't the first time Knox has f***ed up this way and at the very least he needs re-trained.
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Sept 22, 2023 3:55:19 GMT -5
Really poor stuff all round. It worries me how often this happens - and yeah I know it happens in WWE/NJPW too but it does seem to be more frequent in AEW. I dunno if the refs need better training or they need a road agent who can tell people when to do/not do head drop spots and how but jeez. There's been a lot of scary head drops and I'm surprised the worst injury we've had is Dante's leg. This kind of exposes the downside of giving title matches to people who in Kayfabe don’t deserve them. Fenix only has singles wins over lower level talent, not saying he’s not good enough to be champion. He just wasn’t built up enough to be getting a shot yet. Weirdly I'm in the exact opposite boat and think if played right this could do wonders to legitimise the "these are all elite wrestlers and anyone has a fighting chance" feel. I've seen fantasy rebooking suggestions for Jinder's WWE title win that revolve around the idea of him fluking it, you see it in MMA. It could actually be salvaged into a good bit of storytelling with clever booking.
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