jm
Dennis Stamp
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Post by jm on Oct 10, 2023 23:54:51 GMT -5
Page one someone said "TK should fire himself for oking that", let alone expanding outside of here I'm not disagreeing about the optics at all. I'm sure if Vince had done an angle like this, everyone would have a different reaction. But it's good ol' Tony, so it gets more of a pass. Vince has a history of doing offensive storylines and segments. Tony does not.
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Post by Cyno on Oct 10, 2023 23:55:02 GMT -5
Can someone just close this godforsaken thread already?
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Post by ISO Mid Thigh Pull on Oct 10, 2023 23:57:00 GMT -5
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Oct 10, 2023 23:58:31 GMT -5
Page one someone said "TK should fire himself for oking that", let alone expanding outside of here I'm not disagreeing about the optics at all. I'm sure if Vince had done an angle like this, everyone would have a different reaction. But it's good ol' Tony, so it gets more of a pass. A lot of this thread already doesn't like the promo despite it coming from Flawless Tony Khan Whose Kisses We All Want so this argument is crappier than it usually is.
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Perd
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Post by Perd on Oct 11, 2023 0:12:11 GMT -5
Yeah, I think it’s as simple as "We know it wasn’t your intention, but given the circumstances, best to show some tact and avoid anything that can even remotely be construed as anti-semitism."
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Oct 11, 2023 0:16:38 GMT -5
Page one someone said "TK should fire himself for oking that", let alone expanding outside of here I'm not disagreeing about the optics at all. I'm sure if Vince had done an angle like this, everyone would have a different reaction. But it's good ol' Tony, so it gets more of a pass. Good to know some people will take things wildly out of context and circumstance to strawman and go "BUT IF IT WAS VINCE-" just to shit on Tony Khan and say he's getting a "pass" when he's wasn't in this thread at all. This thread made it father than I think most of us envisioned but now we're just getting into territory where it doesn't seem worth it
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Oct 11, 2023 0:19:28 GMT -5
Maybe this'll have people respond negatively to me, but it's a thing Juice has always done, and MJF reacted negatively to it because it's from his own backstory It sets up actual heat with MJF and Juice as a hurdle for MJF to overcome before fighting Jay. There's nothing wrong with what they did out there tonight, and it worked well within the parameters of the storyline What's going on in the world sucks, no one's going to argue that, but looking at that and your first thought being "How dare they be antisemetic at a time like this??" is just... sorry, it's reaching a bit to me, and that's where I'll leave it, I'm just one take on the matter. If people had a problem with it however, it's not really my place to say there shouldn't be offense. This is my real time reaction and as I see more people's reactions I'll simply understand more too, which I want to. Can't wait to see how the feud develops further on my end. It was f***ing stupid. I already don't want to see Juice on my TV (He's a caveman who sounds like Gilbert Gottfried) but now I want him and whoever OK'd this to be suspended. Wrong time for antsemitic tropes. Juice Robinson should not be suspended over this, and given you already seem to hate him, that seems to come from a place of extreme bias Timing might've been wrong but calling for anyone's job or a strict punishment doesn't seem like it's deserved at all.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Oct 11, 2023 0:24:47 GMT -5
Yeah, I think it’s as simple as "We know it wasn’t your intention, but given the circumstances, best to show some tact and avoid anything that can even remotely be construed as anti-semitism." It's a bit too little, too late at this point. How many people did this idea go through? The talents, the agents, the camera crew, the producer in the truck, TK himself. Like, this promo as a whole, and this part of the promo specifically, which I have now watched on the official AEW YouTube page, went through several creative checkpoints. When somebody could have editorialized and said nope, do something else. And somebody, without any foresight or room-reading ability, still thought it was good enough to go to air and okayed it. Like I said in the recently closed "Tony Khan, Bitch?" thread, I don't think TK is a malicious booker, but there's an argument to be made that he may be an incompetent one. And maybe one who should step aside and let somebody else drive the creative. Ultimately, he is responsible for what airs on his show. And there's been enough dumb stuff to make it to air, and this is yet another unnecessary tally for those keeping score.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Oct 11, 2023 0:32:37 GMT -5
Page one someone said "TK should fire himself for oking that", let alone expanding outside of here I'm not disagreeing about the optics at all. I'm sure if Vince had done an angle like this, everyone would have a different reaction. But it's good ol' Tony, so it gets more of a pass. What do you mean "if"? Vince did offensive stuff like this all the time
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Oct 11, 2023 0:35:41 GMT -5
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Post by Watch AEW Magnitude on Oct 11, 2023 0:36:34 GMT -5
No performer needs to be suspended for this, because obviously they don’t make the decisions of what ends up on TV. The move here is for Tony to apologize, do something positive in the fight against antisemitism, and just never use the quarters or the “Friedman” dogwhistle again. You can tell this story without dipping into those tropes. They made a really bad decision tonight and it’s not something to be forgotten, but there are steps they can take to make this situation better.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Oct 11, 2023 0:52:17 GMT -5
Page one someone said "TK should fire himself for oking that", let alone expanding outside of here I'm not disagreeing about the optics at all. I'm sure if Vince had done an angle like this, everyone would have a different reaction. But it's good ol' Tony, so it gets more of a pass. 1. This isn't getting a pass. 2. Vince HAS done stuff like this 3. Unlike when Vince does it, at least the babyface will win this time But my opinion on this is that it was unnecessary and awfully timed.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Oct 11, 2023 0:54:52 GMT -5
3. Unlike when Vince does it, at least the babyface will win this time I want this to be true, but because it's wrestling, I can see this not being the case. We still have a few weeks to get through until Full Gear in the meantime.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Oct 11, 2023 0:55:19 GMT -5
Yeah, I think it’s as simple as "We know it wasn’t your intention, but given the circumstances, best to show some tact and avoid anything that can even remotely be construed as anti-semitism." It's a bit too little, too late at this point. How many people did this idea go through? The talents, the agents, the camera crew, the producer in the truck, TK himself. Like, this promo as a whole, and this part of the promo specifically, which I have now watched on the official AEW YouTube page, went through several creative checkpoints. When somebody could have editorialized and said nope, do something else. And somebody, without any foresight or room-reading ability, still thought it was good enough to go to air and okayed it. Like I said in the recently closed "Tony Khan, Bitch?" thread, I don't think TK is a malicious booker, but there's an argument to be made that he may be an incompetent one. And maybe one who should step aside and let somebody else drive the creative. Ultimately, he is responsible for what airs on his show. And there's been enough dumb stuff to make it to air, and this is yet another unnecessary tally for those keeping score. It's not "too little, too late", it might be for you, but it isn't for everyone who the optics might not have been pleasant for This was not done with intent, nor do I think anyone expected any sort of blowback like this, especially with MJF as the lead and his intentions, which he backed up with the tweet above If you or anyone else wants to chalk it up to an incompetence or f***up tally, that's their choice, in the end, I don't think there has been enough "dumb stuff to make it to air" to say that a guy who has been relatively praised as a booker should hand it over and step aside, no matter how much you might want him to No one's going to be perfect and dumb shit is going to happen for whatever reason, but given what this promo meant, nothing about it in isolation was inherently terrible in it's construction and purpose, the terrible part was the timing with real world events, and yeah it sucks, but clearly, very clearly, everyone, including Tony Khan, thought it wouldn't invoke those emotions. Were they wrong in the end? Looks like it, but I don't really think this is some straw breaking the camel's back moment for Khan or anyone else in the company, just bad timing.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Oct 11, 2023 0:56:43 GMT -5
3. Unlike when Vince does it, at least the babyface will win this time I want this to be true, but because it's wrestling, I can see this not being the case. We still have a few weeks to get through until Full Gear in the meantime. MJF just beat a tag team by himself, he's not losing to Juice Robinson, and I love Juice and think he's one of the best character workers in the company, but he likely wins the Battle Royal and loses, and they steal the Diamond Ring anyway because that's the shtick they're doing.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Oct 11, 2023 0:57:59 GMT -5
It all being done with such a deliberate purpose for good, makes it all the more sad that this is what it all turned into.
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Post by Clutchhausen on Oct 11, 2023 0:59:11 GMT -5
Oof.
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The Gallus Mark
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Post by The Gallus Mark on Oct 11, 2023 1:02:17 GMT -5
Not being Jewish, I won’t say whether or not this promo was appropriate as I don’t feel like I have the personal knowledge or feeling towards knowing.
However, I do know with world events going on, somebody has to say no to this promo for this week. Even if it is Juice’s thing and MJF said it was fine, somebody higher up needs to tell them to wait or simply no.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2023 1:03:26 GMT -5
Another monumental night with wild AEW issues following...Feel like we have many instances of great shows with insane off the wall things overshadowing it.
Regardless of the fact that the quarters is a common spot of Juice's or not it was the usage and implication of it by everyone involved that made it look as bad as it is...
Unfortunately social has alot of time to chatter until the next shows too so it will be interesting to see how this is perceived
I appreciate MJF trying to get in front of it and keep it story based still though it wasn't a good choice.
in lighter news the locker room did sing Tony Happy Birthday
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Post by stoptheclocks on Oct 11, 2023 1:25:10 GMT -5
I get loo,ing at it through the lens of the way it's bad, but I would like to offer the counter, which I think is why this got okayed and was likely even Max's idea to go for in the first place: when the Jewish face overcomes the guy who stands in for the antisemitic bullies of the world, for the grown ass man who will play the same immature games on him that the idiot kids played that map on to the real hatreds of the world, it's going to be the big triumph moment of overcoming the stand-in for that. I don't think things should shy away from sensitive topics just because they're current so long as there's an understanding of how to deliver through on them that isn't simply kicking people when they're down. If their story is "antisemitism loses", if they aren't so stupid as to prey on those things just for heat and pull a Triple H vs. Booker T, then there's room for it. Room for people to be uncomfortable with it too, absolutely, but it's not a story that need inherently be iced on principle. I think the theory of this is fine, but it doesn't really relate to how people consume wrestling in the here and now. I don't think out and out offending people makes them want to watch your show, regardless of who wins the wrestling match at the end of it. Regardless of the intentions, which I believe are positive from MJF, a 'face overcomes antisemitic bullies' storyline is just not a good idea and in the current climate there is zero chance of them taking it any further without the plug being pulled.
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