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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 4, 2024 3:42:08 GMT -5
The Self-Destruction Of The Ultimate Warrior. That one was at least fun and had some truth in it, even if it did ignore the fact that he was genuinely over in a big way for a few years. But yeah, it was definitely a hatchet job, and this is coming from someone who can't stand the man behind the paint. what's funny is watching it... outside of a few things (like how the WCW debut tanked, it didn't) the Self Destruction was not nearly the hatchet job it could have been.
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Post by eJm on Mar 4, 2024 4:38:11 GMT -5
For me the WWE propaganda runs deeper than even facts. It's language. Look at how loads of YouTube channels and news sites use the WWE speak like PLE or especially 'superstar' when they don't have Vince screaming down a headset at them I have said countless times, there are so many rooted consequences of WWE being the dominant pro wrestling company for 20 years where anything that's different from the norm is seen as lesser because it doesn't do the same stuff and it comes off with these channels trying to figure out stuff and putting it under an obvious lens. My flatmate does it all the time and it's weird as hell. As a smaller example, the amount of indies that have done invisible camera segments is astoundingly high. OTT and FFPW over here do them all the time with no good reason for them. Those might not fit the topic in that people seem to think if WWE does it, it must be the standard when all it does is hinder the world your promotion is building.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Mar 4, 2024 7:41:51 GMT -5
Here’s one that I'm not sure whether or not it’s propaganda or just me using my own inferences to hindsight.
“Wrestlemania I was a huge gamble.” Idk it just seemed like there was no way it could have possibly failed. They were having it at their home arena, during a hot period so a good gate was guaranteed. Asthetically, it wasn’t different from the typical msg shows of that time. Was all the money put into closed circuit?
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BRV
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Post by BRV on Mar 4, 2024 11:23:40 GMT -5
"WrestleMania VII was moved out of the Coliseum because of security reasons."
They're still holding steady on this one even on last night's Sgt. Slaughter WWE Biography on A&E. They had documents on screen that showed that roughly 12,000 tickets had been sold by mid-February (for a venue they were hoping would hold 104,000), and then showed the press release from when the move to the Sports Arena was announced - and only 16,000 tickets had been sold to that point. Yet they continued to hammer home the company line that because of the exorbitant costs of increased security at the Coliseum, a move to a smaller venue was necessitated.
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Post by eJm on Mar 4, 2024 11:30:02 GMT -5
"WrestleMania VII was moved out of the Coliseum because of security reasons." They're still holding steady on this one even on last night's Sgt. Slaughter WWE Biography on A&E. They had documents on screen that showed that roughly 12,000 tickets had been sold by mid-February (for a venue they were hoping would hold 104,000), and then showed the press release from when the move to the Sports Arena was announced - and only 16,000 tickets had been sold to that point. Yet they continued to hammer home the company line that because of the exorbitant costs of increased security at the Coliseum, a move to a smaller venue was necessitated. Other thing that makes it weirder is, like, even if that is in any way true, why would you go from a big LA venue to a smaller LA venue? Because if there were people threatening Slaughter and WWF how it was, you're just going to a more cramped space where more damage can be done instead of a stadium where, at the very least, the damage wouldn't be as big. Just go somewhere away from Los Angeles. It'd be like saying you can't use a RV as a transport but instead everyone goes cross country in a Mini Cooper.
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BRV
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Post by BRV on Mar 4, 2024 11:40:16 GMT -5
Other thing that makes it weirder is, like, even if that is in any way true, why would you go from a big LA venue to a smaller LA venue? Because if there were people threatening Slaughter and WWF how it was, you're just going to a more cramped space where more damage can be done instead of a stadium where, at the very least, the damage wouldn't be as big. Just go somewhere away from Los Angeles. It'd be like saying you can't use a RV as a transport but instead everyone goes cross country in a Mini Cooper. I believe it was Bruce Pritchard who was selling it as security costs to cover the entirety of the mammoth LA Coliseum were far too expensive, whereas the smaller Sports Arena was a much more manageable cost. Which may be true, but it also still glosses over the fact that they had visions of selling 104,000 tickets to WrestleMania VII and, as of mid-February, had sold about 12,000. Considering the whole crux of Sgt. Slaughter's return to WWF in the early 1990s was built around his dream of being in the main event of the biggest WrestleMania of all-time, his family's security being put at risk, him telling his daughter to ignore bullies because he was "laughing all the way to the bank," and his dreams were dashed because they'd sold about 11 percent of the available tickets by mid-February, you think they'd just come clean with it. It would have made for a more emotional story, for Slaughter to come to the realization that he'd sacrificed so much and just about lost his family because he was holding on to a star that was fading and put wrestling ahead of his family at a time when wrestling was on a downward trajectory in pop culture. But instead, they went the easy way and said, "Nope, it was that danged pricy security!"
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Mar 4, 2024 12:43:32 GMT -5
Here’s one that I'm not sure whether or not it’s propaganda or just me using my own inferences to hindsight. “Wrestlemania I was a huge gamble.” Idk it just seemed like there was no way it could have possibly failed. They were having it at their home arena, during a hot period so a good gate was guaranteed. Asthetically, it wasn’t different from the typical msg shows of that time. Was all the money put into closed circuit? I do remember a quote from Linda that she stayed awake until like 4 in the morning getting the receipts from the closed-circuit venues until the point where they crossed into a profit so I think that was the “make or break” part of it.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 4, 2024 15:36:53 GMT -5
Here’s one that I'm not sure whether or not it’s propaganda or just me using my own inferences to hindsight. “Wrestlemania I was a huge gamble.” Idk it just seemed like there was no way it could have possibly failed. They were having it at their home arena, during a hot period so a good gate was guaranteed. Asthetically, it wasn’t different from the typical msg shows of that time. Was all the money put into closed circuit? I do remember a quote from Linda that she stayed awake until like 4 in the morning getting the receipts from the closed-circuit venues until the point where they crossed into a profit so I think that was the “make or break” part of it. I mean Vince was throwing money at the first Wrestlemania to make it a spectacle. I have no doubt that if it failed it would have severely dampened any of his plans, I'm not sure if it would have exactly bankrupted the company. But he had like A list 80's stars there, and MSG home arena as it may be even at the time was not cheap to run television at.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Mar 4, 2024 15:56:14 GMT -5
I do remember a quote from Linda that she stayed awake until like 4 in the morning getting the receipts from the closed-circuit venues until the point where they crossed into a profit so I think that was the “make or break” part of it. I mean Vince was throwing money at the first Wrestlemania to make it a spectacle. I have no doubt that if it failed it would have severely dampened any of his plans, I'm not sure if it would have exactly bankrupted the company. But he had like A list 80's stars there, and MSG home arena as it may be even at the time was not cheap to run television at. The show would have been a huge loss, but the 'gamble' was just as much about vision. WWE would have hit a rough bit of time to have to claw itself out of the hole that the show being a loss would have dug it into, sure, but the territory as it stood was still very profitable. Saturday Night's Main Event was a month later, there were other things already in motion. But if Wrestlemania failed, it would been a blow to what Vince saw as wrestling taken to the next step, his glitzy, beamed-into-homes premium show dreams packed with celebrities, Hulkamania, and having the profits needed to start making aggressive plays on the other territories. His aspirations of going national and going big were what stood at stake, and I think it's onyl for the tandem sakes of dramatic storytelling and Vince's ego seeing his vision as the company that keep that version of the story marching on.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Mar 4, 2024 15:58:02 GMT -5
I don't know if it fits as 'propaganda' per se, but Briscoe's incessant ass-kissing in the Monday Night Wars video still makes me laugh to this day.
And I also learned not to mess with MISTER MACK-MAN!
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Post by LiamMcDuggle on Mar 4, 2024 16:45:22 GMT -5
That one was at least fun and had some truth in it, even if it did ignore the fact that he was genuinely over in a big way for a few years. But yeah, it was definitely a hatchet job, and this is coming from someone who can't stand the man behind the paint. what's funny is watching it... outside of a few things (like how the WCW debut tanked, it didn't) the Self Destruction was not nearly the hatchet job it could have been. While his match against Hogan was not amazing and his promos were...long, Bischoff has said Warrior's presence did bring them in more money than it cost. Bischoff also said people "perform" on those DVD's, just saying what the producers want to hear. The way the DVD sales worked, is if you were in the DVD in any capacity, you would get a royalty. So the more you said what the producers wanted to hear, the more they would use you. Jericho also confirmed the producers for that DVD were pushed to say negative things. I also do not personally like Warrior. But I don't think manipulating the truth is the best thing to do
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Post by LiamMcDuggle on Mar 4, 2024 16:48:43 GMT -5
Other thing that makes it weirder is, like, even if that is in any way true, why would you go from a big LA venue to a smaller LA venue? Because if there were people threatening Slaughter and WWF how it was, you're just going to a more cramped space where more damage can be done instead of a stadium where, at the very least, the damage wouldn't be as big. Just go somewhere away from Los Angeles. It'd be like saying you can't use a RV as a transport but instead everyone goes cross country in a Mini Cooper. I believe it was Bruce Pritchard who was selling it as security costs to cover the entirety of the mammoth LA Coliseum were far too expensive, whereas the smaller Sports Arena was a much more manageable cost.Which may be true, but it also still glosses over the fact that they had visions of selling 104,000 tickets to WrestleMania VII and, as of mid-February, had sold about 12,000. Considering the whole crux of Sgt. Slaughter's return to WWF in the early 1990s was built around his dream of being in the main event of the biggest WrestleMania of all-time, his family's security being put at risk, him telling his daughter to ignore bullies because he was "laughing all the way to the bank," and his dreams were dashed because they'd sold about 11 percent of the available tickets by mid-February, you think they'd just come clean with it. It would have made for a more emotional story, for Slaughter to come to the realization that he'd sacrificed so much and just about lost his family because he was holding on to a star that was fading and put wrestling ahead of his family at a time when wrestling was on a downward trajectory in pop culture. But instead, they went the easy way and said, "Nope, it was that danged pricy security!" This is also echoed in the True Story of Wrestlemania DVD. If Slaughter's push worked, they would have not forced him to retire within the year of that main event. I really don't have a clue to why they thought Sheik, Sarg, and Mustafa, who were all 40+, completely immobile and out of shape were going to sell well.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 4, 2024 17:22:21 GMT -5
what's funny is watching it... outside of a few things (like how the WCW debut tanked, it didn't) the Self Destruction was not nearly the hatchet job it could have been. While his match against Hogan was not amazing and his promos were...long, Bischoff has said Warrior's presence did bring them in more money than it cost. Bischoff also said people "perform" on those DVD's, just saying what the producers want to hear. The way the DVD sales worked, is if you were in the DVD in any capacity, you would get a royalty. So the more you said what the producers wanted to hear, the more they would use you. Jericho also confirmed the producers for that DVD were pushed to say negative things. I also do not personally like Warrior. But I don't think manipulating the truth is the best thing to do I'm not sure of the full financials but the idea that viewers tuned out when Warrior first showed up is clearly false as ratings went up for that segment.
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Post by wildojinx on Mar 4, 2024 17:26:48 GMT -5
Speaking of that Slaughter doc, they also claimed Jesse Ventura suggested that burning the American flag would be a way to get heat. Jesse was gone by the time they did the Iraqi sympathizer stuff, and I cant see him saying that would be a good idea to get heat.
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BRV
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Post by BRV on Mar 4, 2024 19:36:55 GMT -5
I do remember a quote from Linda that she stayed awake until like 4 in the morning getting the receipts from the closed-circuit venues until the point where they crossed into a profit so I think that was the “make or break” part of it. I mean Vince was throwing money at the first Wrestlemania to make it a spectacle. I have no doubt that if it failed it would have severely dampened any of his plans, I'm not sure if it would have exactly bankrupted the company. But he had like A list 80's stars there, and MSG home arena as it may be even at the time was not cheap to run television at. WWF had already sort of soft-launched a WrestleMania trial balloon with "The War to Settle the Score" a month prior, which aired on MTV and had all the trappings of WrestleMania I: a sold-out Madison Square Garden, celebrities aplenty (Cyndi Lauper, Andy Warhol, Danny DeVito, Joe Piscopo), and a Hulk Hogan main event match. With that, they had to know at least partially that WrestleMania I wasn't going to be a total flop - at worst it would probably break even financially for them. However, one fib that came from "The True Story of WrestleMania" and its chapter on the first WrestleMania was when (I believe) Hulk Hogan said that all the wrestlers who participated in WrestleMania I were going to be blackballed from the promotions around the country for trying to make WWF go national. That's absolute bunk. You're telling me that the AWA on ESPN, Mid-Atlantic/Crockett on TBS, or any of the other countless promotions with local TV deals wouldn't have bent over backwards to sign Hulk Hogan, Paul Orndorff, Roddy Piper, Andre the Giant, The Iron Shiek, Junkyard Dog, or Greg Valentine if WrestleMania flopped and WWF closed up shop? Speaking of that Slaughter doc, they also claimed Jesse Ventura suggested that burning the American flag would be a way to get heat. Jesse was gone by the time they did the Iraqi sympathizer stuff, and I cant see him saying that would be a good idea to get heat. The timeline sort of syncs up. Sgt. Slaughter returned to WWF in mid-1990, and Jesse Ventura left in August of that year. So while they may have been ships passing in the night, it's plausible that there was some interaction between the two. As for Ventura suggesting the burning of the flag, that too is at least somewhat plausible, because while Ventura is a Veteran, he's also a vehement defender of the First Amendment.
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Post by THE FVNKER on Mar 4, 2024 20:06:23 GMT -5
what's funny is watching it... outside of a few things (like how the WCW debut tanked, it didn't) the Self Destruction was not nearly the hatchet job it could have been. While his match against Hogan was not amazing and his promos were...long, Bischoff has said Warrior's presence did bring them in more money than it cost. Bischoff also said people "perform" on those DVD's, just saying what the producers want to hear. The way the DVD sales worked, is if you were in the DVD in any capacity, you would get a royalty. So the more you said what the producers wanted to hear, the more they would use you. Jericho also confirmed the producers for that DVD were pushed to say negative things. I also do not personally like Warrior. But I don't think manipulating the truth is the best thing to do I do 100% agree with the notion that they are “performing” on those DVD’s. It’s pretty obvious which guys in WWE at the time they were cranking those out were students of the game and who were just guys wanting to be on TV, and you could totally tell through what they said on there if they were coached or not.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Mar 4, 2024 20:10:12 GMT -5
If Slaughter's push worked, they would have not forced him to retire within the year of that main event. I really don't have a clue to why they thought Sheik, Sarg, and Mustafa, who were all 40+, completely immobile and out of shape were going to sell well. Because Vince McMahon would repeatedly convince himself that in-ring wrestling doesn't actually matter, then notice the consequences of pushing guys who can't work and readjust for a while.
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Post by LiamMcDuggle on Mar 4, 2024 20:24:32 GMT -5
If Slaughter's push worked, they would have not forced him to retire within the year of that main event. I really don't have a clue to why they thought Sheik, Sarg, and Mustafa, who were all 40+, completely immobile and out of shape were going to sell well. Because Vince McMahon would repeatedly convince himself that in-ring wrestling doesn't actually matter, then notice the consequences of pushing guys who can't work and readjust for a while. Looking back on it, this really seems to be the first instance of VKM trying to make something work that the fans hated
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Post by LiamMcDuggle on Mar 4, 2024 20:30:53 GMT -5
While his match against Hogan was not amazing and his promos were...long, Bischoff has said Warrior's presence did bring them in more money than it cost. Bischoff also said people "perform" on those DVD's, just saying what the producers want to hear. The way the DVD sales worked, is if you were in the DVD in any capacity, you would get a royalty. So the more you said what the producers wanted to hear, the more they would use you. Jericho also confirmed the producers for that DVD were pushed to say negative things. I also do not personally like Warrior. But I don't think manipulating the truth is the best thing to do I do 100% agree with the notion that they are “performing” on those DVD’s. It’s pretty obvious which guys in WWE at the time they were cranking those out were students of the game and who were just guys wanting to be on TV, and you could totally tell through what they said on there if they were coached or not. I remember on Confidential, which would air mini 10 min docs in the same style, they had a big piece about how Road Warrior Animal coming back to wrestle a tag match against Kane/RVD in 2003 was a nice wholesome moment, of him beating his addiction and finishing his career on top. In reality, it was a tryout match and he was yelled at backstage for no selling BOTH Kane/RVD's finishers and still dealt with addiction after that match (which was confirmed by Bruce Prichard on STW). Like, I get not wanting to paint someone negatively who is dealing with addiction, and not wanting to make your own company look bad, but it was just a straight lie.
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Post by Andee9001 on Mar 4, 2024 21:29:47 GMT -5
The McMahon dvd version of how Black Saturday went. On the dvd the story told was that it was such a success that Ted Turner wanted to buy a part of the WWF. When Vince turned him down he fought to get out of the contract, took it to court and the judge ruled in favor of the WWF and Vince decided he didn't want to work with someone who didn't want to work with him so sold the contract off. It was big nasty Ted Turner who started the feud.
Also them basically positioning Ted Turner as this horrible man who Vince valiantly defeated and he didn't let anyone forget it for 20 years.
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