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Post by eJm on Apr 17, 2024 10:24:31 GMT -5
Booking the main event of Mania 25 as a match where Hunter would lose the title if he got DQed against the man who sexually assaulted his wife on live TV I mean sure the match stunk to high heaven., but it kinda made sense. The face can’t beat the shit out of the heel who made it personal or else he loses his championship. You can’t do a home invasion angle where the face is getting revenge for a heel’s actions and not have the match it’s leading to be at least No DQ. That makes zero sense and there’s hardly any good precedence for it. It frankly killed the match interest dead, for me at least. EDIT: That also reminds me, Vince and Shane were also punted and the former was the person most responsible on TV for decisions, you mean to tell me he, after seeing his son and daughter abused by the same man, wouldn’t arrange the most barbaric circumstances for that guy at the biggest event but in fact hinder the guy taking revenge?
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Post by saneiac on Apr 17, 2024 11:13:35 GMT -5
Dancing One Man Gang Dancing Mable (and Mo and Oscar) Dancing Fatu Dancing Earthquake Dancing Kurrgan Dancing Albert Dancing Albert the second time Dancing Brodus Clay Dancing Big Fat Naked Oily Guy
Yes, ONE of those really worked, but surely there are other ways to make a super-heavyweight into a lovable character, right?
This post was inspired by watching the four way match on RAW last week and noticing Bronson Reed wasn’t getting much of a crowd reaction. It got me wondering how long until Vince would have made him start dancing.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Apr 17, 2024 11:28:29 GMT -5
I mean sure the match stunk to high heaven., but it kinda made sense. The face can’t beat the shit out of the heel who made it personal or else he loses his championship. You can’t do a home invasion angle where the face is getting revenge for a heel’s actions and not have the match it’s leading to be at least No DQ. That makes zero sense and there’s hardly any good precedence for it. It frankly killed the match interest dead, for me at least. EDIT: That also reminds me, Vince and Shane were also punted and the former was the person most responsible on TV for decisions, you mean to tell me he, after seeing his son and daughter abused by the same man, wouldn’t arrange the most barbaric circumstances for that guy at the biggest event but in fact hinder the guy taking revenge? Yeah that’s true, Vince was always the highest authority in kayfabe. Who in kayfabe made that stipulation?
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Post by simplydurhamcalling on Apr 17, 2024 11:32:22 GMT -5
I mean sure the match stunk to high heaven., but it kinda made sense. The face can’t beat the shit out of the heel who made it personal or else he loses his championship. You can’t do a home invasion angle where the face is getting revenge for a heel’s actions and not have the match it’s leading to be at least No DQ. That makes zero sense and there’s hardly any good precedence for it. It frankly killed the match interest dead, for me at least. EDIT: That also reminds me, Vince and Shane were also punted and the former was the person most responsible on TV for decisions, you mean to tell me he, after seeing his son and daughter abused by the same man, wouldn’t arrange the most barbaric circumstances for that guy at the biggest event but in fact hinder the guy taking revenge? It would also have allowed them to not have to try and have a better "wrestling" match than Taker/Shawn.
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Post by eJm on Apr 17, 2024 11:35:13 GMT -5
You can’t do a home invasion angle where the face is getting revenge for a heel’s actions and not have the match it’s leading to be at least No DQ. That makes zero sense and there’s hardly any good precedence for it. It frankly killed the match interest dead, for me at least. EDIT: That also reminds me, Vince and Shane were also punted and the former was the person most responsible on TV for decisions, you mean to tell me he, after seeing his son and daughter abused by the same man, wouldn’t arrange the most barbaric circumstances for that guy at the biggest event but in fact hinder the guy taking revenge? It would also have allowed them to not have to try and have a better "wrestling" match than Taker/Shawn. Exactly, if there was a match that everyone would have been fine with being a plunderiffic smoke and mirrors run in fest, it was HHH/Orton.
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Post by MrElijah on Apr 17, 2024 11:42:53 GMT -5
It would also have allowed them to not have to try and have a better "wrestling" match than Taker/Shawn. Exactly, if there was a match that everyone would have been fine with being a plunderiffic smoke and mirrors run in fest, it was HHH/Orton. Vince seemed to be against common sense booking the last 20+ years. The Invasion alone should've had him realize, "maybe I'm not good at this."
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Post by eJm on Apr 17, 2024 12:40:59 GMT -5
Vince seemed to be against common sense booking the last 20+ years. The Invasion alone should've had him realize, "maybe I'm not good at this." The InVasion, for as bad as it was, I could put down to him being petty and wanting to put his dick on the table and claim victory in the Monday Night Wars rather than him being bad at creative. It was a terrible decision but also more reflects on him as a person than a booker. The issue was more that he'd forget things or go in different directions that were ingrained into the product that he built. People weren't written off TV, they were just gone. Blood feuds would lead to matches with zero stipulations and the stuff that didn't need stips would just have stips. Characters would be wedged into spots that they weren't trained for, nor did he take advantage of the developmental centre he built to get those established to make main roster integration seamless. Just these constantly weird decisions where he looks at the tools he made for his company and doesn't use half of them except at the oddest of times and the worst thing about it is that it influenced every other ninny with an indie fed or school to think that's the way it worked.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Apr 17, 2024 13:10:55 GMT -5
Vince seemed to be against common sense booking the last 20+ years. The Invasion alone should've had him realize, "maybe I'm not good at this." The InVasion, for as bad as it was, I could put down to him being petty and wanting to put his dick on the table and claim victory in the Monday Night Wars rather than him being bad at creative. It was a terrible decision but also more reflects on him as a person than a booker. The issue was more that he'd forget things or go in different directions that were ingrained into the product that he built. People weren't written off TV, they were just gone. Blood feuds would lead to matches with zero stipulations and the stuff that didn't need stips would just have stips. Characters would be wedged into spots that they weren't trained for, nor did he take advantage of the developmental centre he built to get those established to make main roster integration seamless. Just these constantly weird decisions where he looks at the tools he made for his company and doesn't use half of them except at the oddest of times and the worst thing about it is that it influenced every other ninny with an indie fed or school to think that's the way it worked. You really needed the bigger names that elected to stay home and collect money than sign with WWE immediately. That doesn’t excuse the nonsense that happened once it ended. (Kurt Angle being a heel? Austin back to being “the old” stone cold?”) it was like it never happened. But nevertheless, “WWF vs WCW” with only Booker T and DDP being the main event representation from the latter, was always going to be a letdown.
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Post by eJm on Apr 17, 2024 13:17:46 GMT -5
The InVasion, for as bad as it was, I could put down to him being petty and wanting to put his dick on the table and claim victory in the Monday Night Wars rather than him being bad at creative. It was a terrible decision but also more reflects on him as a person than a booker. The issue was more that he'd forget things or go in different directions that were ingrained into the product that he built. People weren't written off TV, they were just gone. Blood feuds would lead to matches with zero stipulations and the stuff that didn't need stips would just have stips. Characters would be wedged into spots that they weren't trained for, nor did he take advantage of the developmental centre he built to get those established to make main roster integration seamless. Just these constantly weird decisions where he looks at the tools he made for his company and doesn't use half of them except at the oddest of times and the worst thing about it is that it influenced every other ninny with an indie fed or school to think that's the way it worked. You really needed the bigger names that elected to stay home and collect money than sign with WWE immediately. That doesn’t excuse the nonsense that happened once it ended. (Kurt Angle being a heel? Austin back to being “the old” stone cold?”) it was like it never happened. But nevertheless, “WWF vs WCW” with only Booker T and DDP being the main event representation from the latter, was always going to be a letdown. 2001 was just a strange year in terms of them being willing to elevate people, even before the Invasion started. The Hardys and Edge and Christian were the most over people coming out of ‘Mania and they were basically dropped like a rock, Austin, HHH, Taker and Kane main evented PPVs at a time nobody really cared to see them as much anymore (Austin likely being the only exception) and as you said, the Invasion was basically them wanting to get it out of the way even though they had the roster (even with the injuries that happened at the start of the summer to Benoit and HHH) to build to something down the line. 2002 beyond were more rebuild years but 2001 would have been one nobody would have minded but they instead hoped a top heel faction was going to cut it again.
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Post by Ludwig Kaiser’s Walk on Apr 17, 2024 13:42:01 GMT -5
Erick Rowan’s spider
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Apr 17, 2024 13:47:41 GMT -5
Shorty G.
Primo and Epico as Time Share Salesmen.
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Post by chrom on Apr 17, 2024 14:28:31 GMT -5
I mean sure the match stunk to high heaven., but it kinda made sense. The face can’t beat the shit out of the heel who made it personal or else he loses his championship. You can’t do a home invasion angle where the face is getting revenge for a heel’s actions and not have the match it’s leading to be at least No DQ. That makes zero sense and there’s hardly any good precedence for it. It frankly killed the match interest dead, for me at least. EDIT: That also reminds me, Vince and Shane were also punted and the former was the person most responsible on TV for decisions, you mean to tell me he, after seeing his son and daughter abused by the same man, wouldn’t arrange the most barbaric circumstances for that guy at the biggest event but in fact hinder the guy taking revenge? It was Vickie who made the announcement that should HHH be disqualified he would lose the title.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Apr 17, 2024 15:14:15 GMT -5
DDP stalking Sara. You want DDP to go after the Deadman to make a mark then that’s fine. It was stupid ass way to do it. Not to mention, DDP’s idea of him feuding with Rock would’ve been cool. The People’s Champ vs. People’s Champ idea. Of course they had to big dick him and act like he was a nobody. DDP was crazy over. Honestly, now that I think about it, Vince’s who booking of the WCW/NWO is probably the worst example of booking in history. The Invasion could’ve been a money maker for decades, but instead he had to piss on it just because. He OWNED the trademarks, yet instead of elevating them and making them all valuable he trashed them because they weren’t his ideas. Awful. Vince deciding to put Buff f***ing Bagwell in the main event of Raw/Nitro because one chucklef*** crowd heavily cheered him. That stupid ass decision killed the Invasion before it started.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Apr 17, 2024 15:20:40 GMT -5
Not to mention, DDP’s idea of him feuding with Rock would’ve been cool. The People’s Champ vs. People’s Champ idea. Of course they had to big dick him and act like he was a nobody. DDP was crazy over. Honestly, now that I think about it, Vince’s who booking of the WCW/NWO is probably the worst example of booking in history. The Invasion could’ve been a money maker for decades, but instead he had to piss on it just because. He OWNED the trademarks, yet instead of elevating them and making them all valuable he trashed them because they weren’t his ideas. Awful. Vince deciding to put Buff f***ing Bagwell in the main event of Raw/Nitro because one chucklef*** crowd heavily cheered him. That stupid ass decision killed the Invasion before it started. Meh, Considering who they were able to get in the deal, Buff was like, the 3rd biggest name they had.
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Push R Truth
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Post by Push R Truth on Apr 17, 2024 16:12:18 GMT -5
Austin Theory being the future.
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Post by Ishmeal Loves Kaseyhausen on Apr 17, 2024 16:19:13 GMT -5
I can’t believe we’re not at 50 pages already.
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Post by Famous Rocking Chimes on Apr 17, 2024 18:38:17 GMT -5
Absolutely nuking Bayley’s face run on the main roster (“I don’t want to hurt anyone”, This Is Your Life, losing to Alexa at every opportunity, having Sasha interfere to help her beat Charlotte etc) to the point where she had to turn heel to revitalise her career and it’s only now where Bayley as a face seems doable.
When she was on NXT, I thought there was absolutely no way Vince could screw up Bayley. The kids loved her, the adults loved her. Leave it to Vince to find new ways of screwing up.
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Post by thegame415 on Apr 17, 2024 18:49:48 GMT -5
Some under the radar ones:
Make Darren Young Great Again - not to insult Darren Young, but dude was part of a B tag team. He was never really "great". This would've worked so much better with a guy like Sheamus, who in a matter of months went from world champion to putting over Apollo Crews.
Big Show winning at Survivor Series 1999: there was no purpose to this. Show was over, but did anyone want to pay to see him as champion when there were guys so much more over? They should've added Mankind to the match and have Vince help him win after screwing him the year before.
Trying to Make Alberto Del Rio the new Eddie Guerrero instead of making him the first Alberto Del Rio. He should've been even louder, more in your face with his money. A mix of Ric Flair and JBL.
Having Jericho as the first Undisputed Champion: I love Jericho, but again, it made no sense from a story perspective. Kurt Angle kayfabe wise helped save the company at Survivor Series. Why wouldn't Vince help pay him back? You could also tie it in with Angle vs Triple H and the history with Steph for WrestleMania.
Miz vs Jerry Lawler the week after Miz wins the world title: Let's have our new champion struggle to beat a guy twice his age in a match that involves climbing a ladder.
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Post by Smitty on Apr 17, 2024 19:48:20 GMT -5
The last few years of running WWE's creative team (2017-2021) The McMahonism vs HBK/God angle in '06 The early half of the PG era Randy Orton beating Christian a few days after he won the world title in 2011
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Post by theironyuppie on Apr 17, 2024 23:06:10 GMT -5
Absolutely nuking Bayley’s face run on the main roster (“I don’t want to hurt anyone”, This Is Your Life, losing to Alexa at every opportunity, having Sasha interfere to help her beat Charlotte etc) to the point where she had to turn heel to revitalise her career and it’s only now where Bayley as a face seems doable. When she was on NXT, I thought there was absolutely no way Vince could screw up Bayley. The kids loved her, the adults loved her. Leave it to Vince to find new ways of screwing up. There was the challenge there of Bayley already having had her entire character arc in NXT, but turning her from slightly naive to actual child was a bad call from the start. Even besides the more notorious ones, there were plenty of moments to show that they didn't have a handle on her character, from her randomly joining a group beatdown during the Survivor Series build, to her "HELL NO!!!!" at Stephanie trying to get her to virtuously give the title up after Sasha aided her win. That one got doubled down on at Fastlane for the sake of Sasha and Nia also being in the Mania match, which then wasn't that great anyways.
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