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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Apr 21, 2024 18:23:01 GMT -5
There isn’t anything inherently bad about pushing someone as a white meat babyface. Problem is that Vince would push someone as such even though that’s not how someone got over in the first place. Like Shawn Michaels who got over by being a sneaky but charming rogue, turned into the paragon of virtue by 1996.
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Post by eJm on Apr 22, 2024 5:35:13 GMT -5
There isn’t anything inherently bad about pushing someone as a white meat babyface. Problem is that Vince would push someone as such even though that’s not how someone got over in the first place. The thing as well is that he wasn't able to be consistent with having a babyface be a babyface. Even John Cena, the closest he's come in years to having a Hogan type, would be a dick for no actual good reason. The Eve Torres segment was the first one in ages that a segment aged rapidly and badly in real time and the only reason it happened was that the other option was the top babyface kissing someone's love interest. Whether that's because he can't trust himself or his audience, who knows? But it's another one of those things Vince wrote the book on (outside of Sting in WCW) and then somehow forgot all of it.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Apr 22, 2024 5:45:23 GMT -5
I think probably the most, "Vince does not understand his own main character," moment I can think of with Cena was during the Ryback feud, entirely motivated by Ryback being bitter over Cena continually leaving him to get his ass kicked by the Shield, Cena came out to save him from them just to instead turn and walk away leaving him to it. Like... A major problem plaguing that whole stupid feud was that Ryback was clearly the hero in it (also he totally won the Last Man Standing match but they just pretended it was a draw for no reason) and you could have entirely fixed that by having Cena instead opt to save him after all and then Ryback be completely ungrateful and attack Cena afterward. Like... It's so easy to make that story work and instead they just made the bad guy correct.
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Post by eJm on Apr 22, 2024 6:08:51 GMT -5
I think probably the most, "Vince does not understand his own main character," moment I can think of with Cena was during the Ryback feud, entirely motivated by Ryback being bitter over Cena continually leaving him to get his ass kicked by the Shield, Cena came out to save him from them just to instead turn and walk away leaving him to it. Like... A major problem plaguing that whole stupid feud was that Ryback was clearly the hero in it (also he totally won the Last Man Standing match but they just pretended it was a draw for no reason) and you could have entirely fixed that by having Cena instead opt to save him after all and then Ryback be completely ungrateful and attack Cena afterward. Like... It's so easy to make that story work and instead they just made the bad guy correct. Like, that absolutely felt like something Vince would have booked in 1985 for a Hogan feud. Heck, the entire basis for Hogan/Savage (besides Hogan's lust in his eyes for Liz) was literally that sort of stuff. Savage being ungrateful and feeling Hogan helping him was taking the spotlight from him. And it was the same guy that did that.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 22, 2024 11:46:42 GMT -5
I think probably the most, "Vince does not understand his own main character," moment I can think of with Cena was during the Ryback feud, entirely motivated by Ryback being bitter over Cena continually leaving him to get his ass kicked by the Shield, Cena came out to save him from them just to instead turn and walk away leaving him to it. Like... A major problem plaguing that whole stupid feud was that Ryback was clearly the hero in it (also he totally won the Last Man Standing match but they just pretended it was a draw for no reason) and you could have entirely fixed that by having Cena instead opt to save him after all and then Ryback be completely ungrateful and attack Cena afterward. Like... It's so easy to make that story work and instead they just made the bad guy correct. Like, that absolutely felt like something Vince would have booked in 1985 for a Hogan feud. Heck, the entire basis for Hogan/Savage (besides Hogan's lust in his eyes for Liz) was literally that sort of stuff. Savage being ungrateful and feeling Hogan helping him was taking the spotlight from him. And it was the same guy that did that. I mean Hogan also pulled Heel moves all the time... just it was against heels so the Face announcer would play up that turnabout is fair play while the heel announcer would harp on it...
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Post by eJm on Apr 22, 2024 12:33:59 GMT -5
Like, that absolutely felt like something Vince would have booked in 1985 for a Hogan feud. Heck, the entire basis for Hogan/Savage (besides Hogan's lust in his eyes for Liz) was literally that sort of stuff. Savage being ungrateful and feeling Hogan helping him was taking the spotlight from him. And it was the same guy that did that. I mean Hogan also pulled Heel moves all the time... just it was against heels so the Face announcer would play up that turnabout is fair play while the heel announcer would harp on it... The likelihood is that, at some point in the match, a heel would do something to him and whilst not justified, it would be that sort of thing that would get a reaction because the heel would get his. Not helping a guy, being called out about it and then running in to not help a guy further only makes everything the heel said completely true and justified and from a story context, that’s a terrible look for the good guy.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Apr 22, 2024 16:31:03 GMT -5
I mean Hogan also pulled Heel moves all the time... just it was against heels so the Face announcer would play up that turnabout is fair play while the heel announcer would harp on it... The likelihood is that, at some point in the match, a heel would do something to him and whilst not justified, it would be that sort of thing that would get a reaction because the heel would get his. Not helping a guy, being called out about it and then running in to not help a guy further only makes everything the heel said completely true and justified and from a story context, that’s a terrible look for the good guy. Or the heel has to VASTLY overact. Paul Orndorff was pretty justified in feeling ignored, but his reaction went far too far. When you've been beaten up by a gang, yeah the violence is baked into the turn.
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Post by CubsFan71 on Apr 23, 2024 2:09:50 GMT -5
Male Model Max Dupree
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