nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Feb 2, 2024 13:59:51 GMT -5
I'd say it'll likely be a headliner or two who can be trusted with a mic, a couple legacy inductions whose families won't object, and maybe a past referee or official. There aren't a whole lot of heroes from the old days anymore.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Feb 2, 2024 13:34:15 GMT -5
I'm surprised TKO/Endeavour haven't done a staff briefing. Even if it's just to reassure or let talent speak or even give people a chance to say 'if you have information please contact this person.' The notion of moving past Vince is the best thing they can do, but it feels odd to not address it internally at least, especially given they did last time. Certainly if I worked there I feel like I'd want a briefing, even if it was a basic no detail one. It seems to me that most companies conducting staff briefings do not announce them publicly. There might have been one either late Friday or Monday morning where questions were asked and answered.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Feb 2, 2024 12:38:52 GMT -5
This would be a good time to induct some folks who might have been passed over in the past. Pick a well-known jobber from the 80s or 90s, or perhaps an old-timer from the territories we might not have heard of.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Feb 2, 2024 8:00:33 GMT -5
Vince is done as a public figure. There's no coming back from this.
Moreover, there _will_ be a cleaning of the house at WWE. It's likely that the worst offenders are already gone or have been pushed out. However, if there are still remnants of Vince's regime still in the company, they need to know now that, at minimum, there'll be mechanisms in place to report wrong-doing of this type and, at worst, they might want to update their LinkedIn profiles.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Feb 1, 2024 17:56:49 GMT -5
Interesting that Laurinaitis would turn on Vince like this. I don't believe he's a fraction of the victim Ms. Grant was or any others they abused and exploited. But, insofar as he felt his job relied on being able to continuously aid and abet his boss in abusing and exploiting these women?
I would have a very, _very_ hard time believing it, especially given Laurinaitis's own crimes. Hurt people may hurt people, but they still have to answer for it in the end.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 31, 2024 19:23:01 GMT -5
It's an unfortunate thing that so many victims of child abuse continue the cycle as adults instead of breaking it. Maybe Vince would've ended up a decent person if he was able to get real help as a kid. I wonder what might have happened if Vince Sr had taken both of the boys with him when he left Vicky. Nobody had a bad word to say about Rod when he passed away.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 31, 2024 15:56:15 GMT -5
He'll have a complicated legacy at best.
Yes, he was extremely dominant in the ring (perhaps too much so) and, with a more appealing personality, absolutely could have been an icon on the level of Hogan, Sammartino, etc. However, he was very inconsistent with his in-ring work and he was not someone who would sell us on the company, even as a babyface (which he never really was.) His foray into MMA made him legitimate for a while, but did nothing for pro wrestling's profile.
And now the controversy here has all but cemented his reputation as a dominant figure who somehow still managed to diminish the craft that made him famous. The stories we've received - about his stunts in OVW that made Jim Cornette threaten to shoot him, his pursuit of Sable, the "locker room leaders" who kissed his ass - are of a man who was never told "no." The business is much healthier without his ilk in it. Let his name be a placeholder in the lineages but don't put any spotlight on him.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 31, 2024 14:42:15 GMT -5
The worst part is going to be Ryback going all “told ya so” Pretty the worst part of this is that this woman was reportedly tortured physically, sexually and mentally by Vince McMahon, John Laurinaitis and possibly several unnamed others.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 30, 2024 17:06:45 GMT -5
Really, there is only so much that McDevitt could do to protect Vince. He could draw them up and have the parties sign them, but there was no way he could force Vince to maintain his end of the agreement.
His retirement at the end of last year was in the works for a while. Given the broad (some might argue too broad) scope of the NDA, there's reason to believe the details of the allegations against McMahon now were not known to McDevitt previously. These details might well preclude McDevitt from serving as McMahon's lawyer again.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 29, 2024 10:19:40 GMT -5
Too bad we are not rich enough to get together and match any settlement offer given to this woman, making her financially independent and in a position to tell the WWE to f*** of no matter what they offer her. If she gets and accepts a settlement, there are other women who have equally shaky NDAs who may come forward. The genie is out of the bottle no matter what the WWE may want. Her name is on the tea towels the Internet now. There are multiple locations where the complaints are laid out, far away from where US law can touch them. Even if they could, shut down one and ten rise to take its place. There's no way Vince and Endeavor are ever permitted to forget this. If they fight and lose, it's make E. Jean Carroll's case look like a dented bumper in small-claims court in comparison. If they settle, they're absolutely admitting wrongdoing and, more important but ultimately a better outcome, they'll have to make sweeping, wiping and scrubbing changes to the culture inside WWE.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 27, 2024 15:38:21 GMT -5
Who are the producers/road agents these days/ Michael Hayes, Jamie Noble, Tyson Kidd, Jason Jordan, Abyss, Kenny Dykstra, Shane Helms, Molly Holly, Petey Williams, Robert Roode, Shawn Daivari and Billy Kidman. The name that stands out there is obviously Hayes. Dude’s the longest tenured and been the centre of many of his own controversies over the years, so he’s probably sleeping with one eye open if anyone digs deeper. I'd say Kidman, Abyss, and Noble might be worth questioning in addition to Hayes. Kidd's out of Calgary so may not have been in the inner circle; Shane Helms might be worth a look; everyone else is probably safe.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 27, 2024 15:19:27 GMT -5
Who are the producers/road agents these days/
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 27, 2024 13:15:02 GMT -5
I've asked the mods about creating this thread but didn't receive an answer so, assuming here that qui tacit consentia, here goes.
Many of us are clearly jubilant that Vince McMahon, rightly, has been forced from his last remaining grip on WWE - with allegations that all but guarantee that he is never going to be able to appear in polite society again. Others might stfill be processing the news, however, with an eye to changes that will almost certainly be afoot throughout the industry in the near and long-term future.
We've largely discussed the impact Vince's departure is likely to have upon WWE itself - with the promise of a houseclearing that may well purge most, if not all personnel from the Vince-controlled era(s) from the company, if not the industry itself. But the events of the last 40ish hours have not only all but severed the connection between WWE and its fairground/gangster past, but also brought into focus some of the darker aspects of the business which have somewhat, but not completely, been pushed out in the years since the Benoit tragedy brought them to light. Illicit use of certain drugs seems to have diminished along with the worst abuses brought about from it, for example. Injuries, however, seem to be still healing up far faster that might be reasonable. The scope for promotions expanding in number and size as gatekeeper types like DeMott are shown the exits might be a short-term trend to come from this, particularly since AEW's ownership has come from outside the business and thus not tethered to the carniness of its larger competitors.
If I may, I'd like to get some discourse going here about what Vince's ouster has accomplished that could not be fully achieved beforehand; the ways in which the business may have already been moving on without Vince (particularly since, say, 2010; and what we might come to expect in the business in the years to come.
Mods, I leave it to you to decide where, if anywhere, this discussion might be best placed.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 27, 2024 11:00:48 GMT -5
This wasn't the outlaw promotion Angelo Poffo ran against the Memphis office?
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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AskaMod
Jan 27, 2024 10:55:43 GMT -5
Post by nisidhe on Jan 27, 2024 10:55:43 GMT -5
Can I open a thread, tangential to the Vince thread, about how things might proceed in the industry from the news that Vince has been forced to resign and is unlikely ever to return to power? And if so, should it go into the WWE section or the (W)rest of Wrestling section?
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 27, 2024 10:13:57 GMT -5
Okay so rather than just snarkily repost the same thing I’ve been posting, and putting aside my distrust of others in Vince’s circle like John Cena (who, when asked about the first round of Vince’s accusations, said “everyone makes mistakes, I still love the man”) or Kevin Dunn (who, well, come on), I’m going to ask some of you something. We have evidence, from both wrestler testimonies and his own evasiveness at press conferences, that Triple H has covered up for abusers much lower on the totem pole than Vince McMahon. Not once, but twice. That’s not even getting into his continued usage of Matt Riddle (until he became too much of a liability) and JD McDonagh which a separate but very similar can of worms. So my question is this: if he’s covered up abuse before, why would he not do so again? Endeavor: "You're on notice, Paul. If there's any more of this stuff going on among the employees or talent - _anyone_ in this organization - and we find out that you did or tried anything to cover it up, you're out of here. We're not kidding and this isn't some mudshow or whatever it is you wrestling people call it. This is a major corporation. You've been chosen to stay on your merits alone, Paul: you need to show us that keeping you is best for business on all sides."
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 27, 2024 3:49:44 GMT -5
Vince wouldn't have resigned unless a) he figured he'd have a way back in once everything blew over, or b) he was told to fall on his sword or be beheaded in a way from which he absolutely would never be able to come back.
Endeavor and the TKO side would never allow a TNA/Russo-style resolution because it would destroy them. You don't play games with the networks or with advertising partners. Vince may not have known this or cared, but Emanuel abso-frickin'-lutely does. Dollars to donuts, Netflix had an out clause on its deal with WWE and were prepared to exercise it if TKO didn't do _something_ about Vince.
Will there be a housecleaning/purge? Probably, but not to the extent one might think. Dunn's seen himself out; Laurinaitis is already long gone; Lesnar will probably be left to sit out his contract knowing it'll be his last with any reputable company and knowing any who would want him can't afford him (if he's not investigated and made to face consequences for what he's been accused of.) Prichard and some of the road agents (most notably Hayes if he's still there) might want to brush up their resumes or dust off their podcast studios. Heyman? I can see him reading the tea-leaves and opting to tell all, rather than face retirement in a wrestling environment that can very easily move on without him.
Trips and Michaels must know now that, if they're not purged, they've hit their respective ceilings within the company and, with Dwayne coming, that they are likely to be supplemented, if not outright replaced in time. A couple phone calls from Dwayne, perhaps (almost certainly) to Calgary and (possibly - not a bad idea) to Hawaii, might generate some fresh ideas in creative and perhaps put entirely to bed certain tropes in pro wrestling that have needed putting to bed for some time. I don't see Regal or Finlay getting purged at all; anyone not in power dynamics over the talent or in a position to influence them shouldn't suffer horribly for what they may have seen or known - put those folks through a good few workshops about sexual harassment, diversity and inclusion and generally "How Not To Be An Unsufferable Wanker Whose Legacy Turns to Ashes Under the Sunlight of Scrutiny".
In the end, though, pro wrestling is being dragged kicking and screaming from its carny past where a code of silence could hide some truly awful shit. Attention has moved from the abuses of the locker rooms to those of one particular boardroom and the office of the man who, until yesterday, also kept that code of silence enforced throughout the business. Let there be more light.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 26, 2024 18:50:20 GMT -5
It would be preferable for TKO/WWE _not_ to hold a presser at all, than to hold one where the questions are softball.
This really, _really_ is a time when it is crucial for public perception for the company to read the room.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 26, 2024 15:01:24 GMT -5
If Tony Khan wanted carte blanche to dump on WWE for all that's come out in the last 24 hours, Triple H's tweet just became that carte blanche.
If I ran TKO, Trips would not be in any PR-related role from here on out. No member of the McMahon family or of their regime should be right now.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 26, 2024 10:48:38 GMT -5
I wasn't attempting to turn it into a company v company war. I enjoy both for the most part and despise the tribalism that exists between both sets of fans. All I was saying was if I was a part of that roster/company, I'd be seriously thinking of handing my notice in. The culture of abuse has clearly been present at management level for years and could potentially still be lingering. I wouldn't want to spend one minute more there personally given some still there in positions of power most likely had knowledge of a lot of this. I was going to ask myself, "Why can't we?" The fact of the matter is that we don't know how far out on the web of WWE this poison sits. We don't know how many of the guys in the locker room received photo or video from Vince of his victims or to what end Vince might have been sending them out. Given Vince's demonstrated willingness to watch and his documented fetishization of men's parts, we don't know if it was just women he was forcing into these situations or if he was using the women under his control (because, let's face it, what choice did they have?) as contract considerations or, indeed, to create blackmail for some of the lads in the locker room. As much as we may dump on Tony Khan here, I don't think there's any question of who I'd trust in an office setting. As for any of the talents who might have either benefitted from this system or who might have suffered under it, I'd already suggested that TKO/WWE might want to show some measure of atonement by opening the door for those with qualms about continuing to work with such a company as WWE to walk out without penalty.
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