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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Nov 22, 2007 16:05:21 GMT -5
c'mon you had to love the post match shenanigans The dancing? That just made it much, much worse...ugh. *Shudders* The awesome Taylor/Younger match following it made up for it to a degree, though.
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Post by ThereIsNoAbsurdistOnlyZuul on Nov 22, 2007 18:04:35 GMT -5
Again, I've seen no one call him dumb, or be "ultra-fanboyish" as you put it. He asked us why we like Chikara when we don't like some of WWE's ridiculousness, and we explained that the comparison wasn't apt, some better than others. And we're leaping to the "defensive" because we're basically being asked to explain why we love what we love, and what the appeal of it is, when the person asking is calling it "lame and unfunny", which to me, which to me was the only real "attack"-like thing I saw anyone post until you posted, that includes mine, MGH's, HMark's, and the rest of Boku's. This was a pretty respectful conversation until you felt the need to "defend" DGG. I've read your arguments, and they are an apologists arguments. Their prima fascie case only really works if I possess a similar mindset as you towards Chikara. (Note: I laugh at their schtick). Example: the argument that Hydra is charismatic, that's not an argument, that's a statement. Without something to back it up (i.e. anecdotes or clips) it doesn't hold water as an effective point of debate, as I could say "He's not," and have as much logic supporting me as you. And even with evidence charisma is not a universal thing (see Elvis, not everyone likes the King, and it was his presence, not his musicality that earned him his fans). I've posted before that humor is something built on how well the audience relates to whats going on. If you can't relate on some level it's not funny. Given their brand of over-the-top, nerdish, still framily friend humor it wont get mass market appeal. Ever. It gets love on this board because a lot of us are over the top nerds (if you say otherwise, stop, collaborate and listen, because you're posting on a message board about wrasslin'). So back to Boku: I would recommend watching stuff, especially in context of an entire show. If you still don't like it, then say "Hey, I tried, I don't get it," and move on. The people here can't offer you a really compelling logical argument because they're fans (which came from the word fanatics), and their talking more with their heart and gut than with their head. Maybe someone can, but they haven't been speaking thus far.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Nov 22, 2007 18:10:13 GMT -5
Again, I've seen no one call him dumb, or be "ultra-fanboyish" as you put it. He asked us why we like Chikara when we don't like some of WWE's ridiculousness, and we explained that the comparison wasn't apt, some better than others. And we're leaping to the "defensive" because we're basically being asked to explain why we love what we love, and what the appeal of it is, when the person asking is calling it "lame and unfunny", which to me, which to me was the only real "attack"-like thing I saw anyone post until you posted, that includes mine, MGH's, HMark's, and the rest of Boku's. This was a pretty respectful conversation until you felt the need to "defend" DGG. I've read your arguments, and they are an apologists arguments. Their prima fascie case only really works if I possess a similar mindset as you towards Chikara. (Note: I laugh at their schtick). Example: the argument that Hydra is charismatic, that's not an argument, that's a statement. Without something to back it up (i.e. anecdotes or clips) it doesn't hold water as an effective point of debate, as I could say "He's not," and have as much logic supporting me as you. And even with evidence charisma is not a universal thing (see Elvis, not everyone likes the King, and it was his presence, not his musicality that earned him his fans). I've posted before that humor is something built on how well the audience relates to whats going on. If you can't relate on some level it's not funny. Given their brand of over-the-top, nerdish, still framily friend humor it wont get mass market appeal. Ever. It gets love on this board because a lot of us are over the top nerds (if you say otherwise, stop, collaborate and listen, because you're posting on a message board about wrasslin'). So back to Boku: I would recommend watching stuff, especially in context of an entire show. If you still don't like it, then say "Hey, I tried, I don't get it," and move on. The people here can't offer you a really compelling logical argument because they're fans (which came from the word fanatics), and their talking more with their heart and gut than with their head. Maybe someone can, but they haven't been speaking thus far. So being fans of something means we have absolutely no ability to logically discuss our fandom without being biased? No. We've been relatively unbiased, as has the other side of this argument, in my opinion. I've never tried to force Chikara on anyone here, and neither has anyone else. Christ, screw it, I'm done with this thread. If I don't defend my position, "I have nothing substantial to say", and if I do defend it, "I'm just some rabid fanboy." It's not worth it.
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Post by macdaddysquid on Nov 22, 2007 18:13:13 GMT -5
Am I the only one that finds CHIKARA lame? I've tried to watch it before but the lame jokes and stupid gimmicks always leaves me shaking my head in confusion. Take Ultra Mantis Black for example. I've heard him toted as the funniest guy ever... But everything I see him in makes me go... "Why is this guy funny again?" Now, keep in mind, I've since Quack & Claudio in action and liked that. And I know there are some talented wreslters there. But the rest isn't that appealing to me. Sometimes it looks like, to me, another version of a WSX with the crazy stuff that is "so bad it's good." Am I the only one that thinks this? Chikara is lame, the only redeeming factors are Hero and Claudio
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Post by mysterydriver on Nov 22, 2007 19:08:13 GMT -5
Am I the only one that finds CHIKARA lame? I've tried to watch it before but the lame jokes and stupid gimmicks always leaves me shaking my head in confusion. Take Ultra Mantis Black for example. I've heard him toted as the funniest guy ever... But everything I see him in makes me go... "Why is this guy funny again?" Now, keep in mind, I've since Quack & Claudio in action and liked that. And I know there are some talented wreslters there. But the rest isn't that appealing to me. Sometimes it looks like, to me, another version of a WSX with the crazy stuff that is "so bad it's good." Am I the only one that thinks this? Chikara is lame, the only redeeming factors are Hero and Claudio If I had saved the Triple H "Thanks for the Info" picture, I would have been using it right now. Also, Boku, if you are still out there...somewhere...what are your thoughts on the dubious duo of wrestling Ice Creams? They are a rare Chikara act (of course in my opinion) that have gotten past their comedy gimmick and can be seen as a good functioning tag team. Also, sprinkles. I love the sprinkles.
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Post by MGH on Nov 22, 2007 19:09:16 GMT -5
A Thanksgiving gift for you, mysterydriver!
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Post by mysterydriver on Nov 22, 2007 19:12:00 GMT -5
A Thanksgiving gift for you, mysterydriver! Right Click. Save Picture As. Thank you, good sir.
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Post by Panda Bear on Nov 22, 2007 19:14:27 GMT -5
I don't dig ROH or Chikara or NJPW or NOAH or whathaveyou for varied reasons. They all seem to have a very cultish, elitist following almost to the point where you don't feel welcome as a new fan. For the most part however I don't like the production or any of the rosters and that's kind of important, you know? Yeah I know how you feel.... I once was very much in to ROH and I joined the board once. I was banned for nothing.... just for getting in a argument with a jerk-off about the way Delirious was being treated. That's why you enjoy the product yourself and be careful about which board you are joining.
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Post by Panda Bear on Nov 22, 2007 19:19:42 GMT -5
Am I the only one that finds CHIKARA lame? I've tried to watch it before but the lame jokes and stupid gimmicks always leaves me shaking my head in confusion. Take Ultra Mantis Black for example. I've heard him toted as the funniest guy ever... But everything I see him in makes me go... "Why is this guy funny again?" Now, keep in mind, I've since Quack & Claudio in action and liked that. And I know there are some talented wreslters there. But the rest isn't that appealing to me. Sometimes it looks like, to me, another version of a WSX with the crazy stuff that is "so bad it's good." Am I the only one that thinks this? Chikara is lame, the only redeeming factors are Hero and Claudio Is this a Chikara hate forum oh If people just want to hate on, I will. CZW sucks, Even though I could never make a promotion like It or have the amount of money Zandig has I hate them
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Nov 22, 2007 19:21:33 GMT -5
Chikara is lame, the only redeeming factors are Hero and Claudio Is this a Chikara hate forum oh If people just want to hate on, I will. CZW sucks, Even though I could never make a promotion like It or have the amount of money Zandig has I hate them No, that's just one of the more subtle trolls on the board, deciding that since I suggested he get his thread locked, he chime in his ignorant, uninformed 2 cents on Chikara.
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Post by Panda Bear on Nov 22, 2007 19:27:22 GMT -5
Is this a Chikara hate forum oh If people just want to hate on, I will. CZW sucks, Even though I could never make a promotion like It or have the amount of money Zandig has I hate them No, that's just one of the more subtle trolls on the board, deciding that since I suggested he get his thread locked, he chime in his ignorant, uninformed 2 cents on Chikara. Oh Okay ;D , I don't know why people call Chikara lame when they want Comedy from Santino Marella in WWE or Colt Cabana in ROH. Chikara has never seen too silly to me.
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Boku AKA Da Green Guy
El Dandy
WC's Resident Pirate Otaku and Official Scapegoat
Always and Forever, Hurricane.
Posts: 8,371
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Post by Boku AKA Da Green Guy on Nov 22, 2007 19:29:09 GMT -5
To all the guys defending me: Stop. I'm a big boy and I can handle things myself.
J, I did slightly feel ganged up on but not so bad as to feel insulted or anything.
Also, I DID NOT MAKE THIS THREAD TO BASH CHIKARA. So stop doing that as well.
Later on, I'll go more deeper right now.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Nov 22, 2007 19:39:18 GMT -5
wow seriously just because somebody dislikes a product i don't get why people get so defensive when people say something sucks.
Chikara sucks in more ways than other dvd producing indies.
I think it has some good young talent. i just don't think i'd want to spend my hard earned money on a dvd.
and borrowing dvds from friends i get that it's kid friendly. I get the lucha based offense.
it's all just good clean fun.
but it's not the best there is.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Nov 22, 2007 19:43:32 GMT -5
wow seriously just because somebody dislikes a product i don't get why people get so defensive when people say something sucks. Chikara sucks in more ways than other dvd producing indies. I think it has some good young talent. i just don't think i'd want to spend my hard earned money on a dvd. and borrowing dvds from friends i get that it's kid friendly. I get the lucha based offense. it's all just good clean fun. but it's not the best there is. There's not a soul here saying it is. No one's saying "YOU MUST LIKE CHIKARA OR YOU'RE AN IDIOT!". That's apparently what you and Jed are reading into it, but honestly, no one's said that once in this thread. God, why won't this stupid thread just die? It's gotten so far removed from the main arguments by people misinterpreting the posts it's idiotic. (Will now be accused of flaming for calling someone an idiot, I'm sure)
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Post by Kash Flagg on Nov 22, 2007 20:00:33 GMT -5
I like Chikara. Other people's opinions of it doesn't affect my viewing habits, as I don't share a tv/computer with them. I stop giving a crap about people not liking stuff I like long ago.
That being said...Boku, you might want to watch an entire show like someone else mentioned. If it's still not for you, at least you tried and can move on to a product that you do enjoy.
And isn't that what it's about...watching something you enjoy? Or is it just about the bitching I see in the WWE section now?
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Post by Red 'n' Black Reggie on Nov 23, 2007 12:17:15 GMT -5
it's as if the bookers of CHIKARA go "i would mark out if ______", like everyone does, but then they actually decide to go through with it. i haven't seen much of CHIKARA, so i wouldn't know if it had been done, but i would love it if they had a wrestler without a gimmick who was just there to earn a wage, and was really perplexed by all the gimmicks. you could even have the wrestlers try and tempt him into getting a really outlandish gimmick, and pitching it to him, only for him to nosell it. then eventually he would give in to the peer pressure and dress up as a turnbuckle or something.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Nov 23, 2007 12:19:29 GMT -5
it's as if the bookers of CHIKARA go "i would mark out if ______", like everyone does, but then they actually decide to go through with it. i haven't seen much of CHIKARA, so i wouldn't know if it had been done, but i would love it if they had a wrestler without a gimmick who was just there to earn a wage, and was really perplexed by all the gimmicks. you could even have the wrestlers try and tempt him into getting a really outlandish gimmick, and pitching it to him, only for him to nosell it. then eventually he would give in to the peer pressure and dress up as a turnbuckle or something. I think they might be doing something similar to that with Equinox right now. He recently got unmasked and revealed as a gringo instead of a Mexicano like everyone thought, so now a lot of people think he's gonna do an "anti-wacky" gimmick, which should fit in fine.
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Post by I'm The Cool One on Nov 23, 2007 12:33:45 GMT -5
Again, I've seen no one call him dumb, or be "ultra-fanboyish" as you put it. He asked us why we like Chikara when we don't like some of WWE's ridiculousness, and we explained that the comparison wasn't apt, some better than others. And we're leaping to the "defensive" because we're basically being asked to explain why we love what we love, and what the appeal of it is, when the person asking is calling it "lame and unfunny", which to me, which to me was the only real "attack"-like thing I saw anyone post until you posted, that includes mine, MGH's, HMark's, and the rest of Boku's. This was a pretty respectful conversation until you felt the need to "defend" DGG. I've read your arguments, and they are an apologists arguments. Their prima fascie case only really works if I possess a similar mindset as you towards Chikara. (Note: I laugh at their schtick). Example: the argument that Hydra is charismatic, that's not an argument, that's a statement. Without something to back it up (i.e. anecdotes or clips) it doesn't hold water as an effective point of debate, as I could say "He's not," and have as much logic supporting me as you. And even with evidence charisma is not a universal thing (see Elvis, not everyone likes the King, and it was his presence, not his musicality that earned him his fans). I've posted before that humor is something built on how well the audience relates to whats going on. If you can't relate on some level it's not funny. Given their brand of over-the-top, nerdish, still framily friend humor it wont get mass market appeal. Ever. It gets love on this board because a lot of us are over the top nerds (if you say otherwise, stop, collaborate and listen, because you're posting on a message board about wrasslin'). So back to Boku: I would recommend watching stuff, especially in context of an entire show. If you still don't like it, then say "Hey, I tried, I don't get it," and move on. The people here can't offer you a really compelling logical argument because they're fans (which came from the word fanatics), and their talking more with their heart and gut than with their head. Maybe someone can, but they haven't been speaking thus far. king of semantics. that was beautiful. honestly, you've taken this thread FAR off track. so just stop complaining now that boku has asked everyone to. and for Boku, if ya dont like it then ya dont like it. thats all good. i could tell ya to give it a chance and watch a whole show, but that probably wont change your opinion of it. it's just not your kind of program. just like i hate buffy the vampire slayer. diffrn't strokes for diffrn't folks.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Nov 23, 2007 13:43:03 GMT -5
wow seriously just because somebody dislikes a product i don't get why people get so defensive when people say something sucks. Chikara sucks in more ways than other dvd producing indies. I think it has some good young talent. i just don't think i'd want to spend my hard earned money on a dvd. and borrowing dvds from friends i get that it's kid friendly. I get the lucha based offense. it's all just good clean fun. but it's not the best there is. There's not a soul here saying it is. No one's saying "YOU MUST LIKE CHIKARA OR YOU'RE AN IDIOT!". That's apparently what you and Jed are reading into it, but honestly, no one's said that once in this thread. God, why won't this stupid thread just die? It's gotten so far removed from the main arguments by people misinterpreting the posts it's idiotic. (Will now be accused of flaming for calling someone an idiot, I'm sure) Paul roma does not approve of this post I never said anything like that, you just assumed that i assumed.
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Post by I'm The Cool One on Nov 23, 2007 14:27:05 GMT -5
There's not a soul here saying it is. No one's saying "YOU MUST LIKE CHIKARA OR YOU'RE AN IDIOT!". That's apparently what you and Jed are reading into it, but honestly, no one's said that once in this thread. God, why won't this stupid thread just die? It's gotten so far removed from the main arguments by people misinterpreting the posts it's idiotic. (Will now be accused of flaming for calling someone an idiot, I'm sure) Paul roma does not approve of this post I never said anything like that, you just assumed that i assumed. this whole argument is getting f***ing stupid.
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