The Line
Patti Mayonnaise
Real Name: Bumkiss. Stanley Bumkiss.
Peanut Butter & JAAAAAMMMM!
Posts: 36,698
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Post by The Line on Nov 24, 2007 0:49:35 GMT -5
I can see good and bad things about Paulie.
Good-Has proven time and time again that he is a creative mastermind. He could really do some wonders for some of the staler talent.
Bad-Gabe has tried distancing himself from ECW a lot(hence why it took them 4 years to run at the Old ECW Arena), so hiring Paul would be a step backwards in that aspect.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Nov 24, 2007 0:51:22 GMT -5
i'm not at all talking hiring Paul as a booker or promoter.
I'm just talking using paul in strictly an announcer/hype man position.
Sorta like TNA's Dashiki man
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Reverend BTY
Hank Scorpio
Christian Troy: God's Gift
Posts: 7,206
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Post by Reverend BTY on Nov 24, 2007 0:51:23 GMT -5
I can see good and bad things about Paulie. Good-Has proven time and time again that he is a creative mastermind. He could really do some wonders for some of the staler talent. Bad-Gabe has tried distancing himself from ECW a lot(hence why it took them 4 years to run at the Old ECW Arena), so hiring Paul would be a step backwards in that aspect. I agree. However, I think the addition of Heyman could help out marquee wise. I'm not saying him handle all the storylines but I think he would have good input to them. Also, he could help solve my announcers problem
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Post by MGH on Nov 24, 2007 0:52:08 GMT -5
This is a little one, and a personal one just because I don't know how many people actually care about them, but hype videos.
Say what you will, but WWE's hype vids have made good feuds seem great, great feuds seem awesome, awesome feuds seem legendary, etc.
ROH rarely does them, and when they do they aren't anything mind blowing. I recall one for the Nigel/Dragon match at (maybe Unified?) and the Jacoobs/Cabana match at FYF: Chicago. I've always been a HUGE mark for hype vids, and I'd love to see more for the big feuds.
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The Line
Patti Mayonnaise
Real Name: Bumkiss. Stanley Bumkiss.
Peanut Butter & JAAAAAMMMM!
Posts: 36,698
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Post by The Line on Nov 24, 2007 0:53:17 GMT -5
I think that Paul could help as "consultant". Just keep him off camera. With indy fans, ROH has established an identity, but they don't need to look like they're riding ECW's coattails to the casual fan(well, for some, that might draw in viewers)
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Reverend BTY
Hank Scorpio
Christian Troy: God's Gift
Posts: 7,206
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Post by Reverend BTY on Nov 24, 2007 0:54:16 GMT -5
This is a little one, and a personal one just because I don't know how many people actually care about them, but hype videos. Say what you will, but WWE's hype vids have made good feuds seem great, great feuds seem awesome, awesome feuds seem legendary, etc. ROH rarely does them, and when they do they aren't anything mind blowing. I recall one for the Nigel/Dragon match at (maybe Unified?) and the Jacoobs/Cabana match at FYF: Chicago. I've always been a HUGE mark for hype vids, and I'd love to see more for the big feuds. Agreed. I remember watching Homicide/Corino and thinking "That's it?" I wouldn't expect WWE level videos but I think upping them would be nice.
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The Line
Patti Mayonnaise
Real Name: Bumkiss. Stanley Bumkiss.
Peanut Butter & JAAAAAMMMM!
Posts: 36,698
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Post by The Line on Nov 24, 2007 0:55:18 GMT -5
This is a little one, and a personal one just because I don't know how many people actually care about them, but hype videos. Say what you will, but WWE's hype vids have made good feuds seem great, great feuds seem awesome, awesome feuds seem legendary, etc. ROH rarely does them, and when they do they aren't anything mind blowing. I recall one for the Nigel/Dragon match at (maybe Unified?) and the Jacoobs/Cabana match at FYF: Chicago. I've always been a HUGE mark for hype vids, and I'd love to see more for the big feuds. The Jacobs/Cabana one was great. Another good one was for Cabana/Homicide last year(whats up with Cabana getting the only good ones?). But more recently, a non-feud specific video was good. The hype vids for the Japan shows from the Driven PPV broadcast were pretty good. But I agree. They could use some work. Especially for the main event feuds.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Nov 24, 2007 1:15:50 GMT -5
This is a little one, and a personal one just because I don't know how many people actually care about them, but hype videos. Say what you will, but WWE's hype vids have made good feuds seem great, great feuds seem awesome, awesome feuds seem legendary, etc. ROH rarely does them, and when they do they aren't anything mind blowing. I recall one for the Nigel/Dragon match at (maybe Unified?) and the Jacoobs/Cabana match at FYF: Chicago. I've always been a HUGE mark for hype vids, and I'd love to see more for the big feuds. Agreed. I remember watching Homicide/Corino and thinking "That's it?" I wouldn't expect WWE level videos but I think upping them would be nice. ECW used to do those videos so great. Since Gabe is a student of Heyman, why not get some better video editors. Their hype vids always fall sorta flat between Duck Voiced Man Gabe and the choosing of not the most epic moments. Seriously a hype vid should include some of the best bits, but making you want to see the whole thing.
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KLRA
El Dandy
Halt. I am Reptar.
Posts: 7,591
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Post by KLRA on Nov 24, 2007 1:29:33 GMT -5
I agree with the "never letting Gabe talk ever again" sentiments. However, I don't mind when he jumps in on commentary for a quick moment to let us know what's "going on backstage."
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Post by Panda Bear on Nov 24, 2007 1:46:55 GMT -5
Topless Becky Bayless interviews. ...what? Okay fine. Bottomless Becky Bayless interviews, shot from behind. This man is a genius, get him to replace Cary.
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Post by The Scuba Guy on Nov 24, 2007 1:58:11 GMT -5
Topless Becky Bayless interviews. ...what? Okay fine. Bottomless Becky Bayless interviews, shot from behind. This man knows..... But yeah, I would do the following" 1) Get more exposure. 2) Get cult-like celebrities. The internet would LOVE the robots and Mike from MST3K
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Post by Panda Bear on Nov 24, 2007 2:02:03 GMT -5
2) Get cult-like celebrities. The internet would LOVE the robots and Mike from MST3K Oh god that would be great "BAHHAHHHHAHAHHADELIRIOUSHHHSBBSLOVESYOURSHOWBXHHCBXYCB" "Hey Joel, the Wacko is talking to us" "Just ignore him, Crow" Oh and I'm still up for Topless Becky ;D
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Post by Timmy8271 on Nov 24, 2007 3:19:00 GMT -5
I agree with the person that said get a heel announcer. I can't stand that guy that's not Dave Prazak. The one thing I love about Chikara and IWA Mid-south is they have rotating heel commentators. I wouldn't mind ROH doing that.
The only two things I would say is Bring in Eddie Kingston. Seriously, that guy is my wrestler of the year. The guy makes me want to buy anything he's selling by speaking. One of the best promo's in wrestling since the Rock.
And I think someone mentioned this earlier but they need to stop with the "USA NOAH" overexposure. The company damn near killed the Lariat and that style is good for some wrestler but not everyone needs to have that style.
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The Line
Patti Mayonnaise
Real Name: Bumkiss. Stanley Bumkiss.
Peanut Butter & JAAAAAMMMM!
Posts: 36,698
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Post by The Line on Nov 24, 2007 3:24:19 GMT -5
from what everyone has said, the latter half of the year has been better when it comes to toning down the puro-influenced style. It was becoming NOAHverkill(yeah, that wasn't such a good one, was it?).
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Post by sexualvanilla on Nov 24, 2007 3:56:32 GMT -5
One thing I've always wanted are some occasional Pulp Fiction-esque hype videos. Those old ECW ones did massive amounts to establish the characters, advance feuds, and provide really good vignettes. I'm not saying copy them exactly, but a five minute video with wrestlers getting to say their piece about their feuds would be really efficient.
Related to the above, but more hype videos. They've shown they could do some really good ones, but they need a really good video editor to sort'em out and add more production value.
Get their own editor to do some of the matches. Often times, there're 3 cameras but only 2 or so are actually used. And the shots that make the DVD aren't always the best ones (like Kenta giving Low Ki the Go 2 Sleep. On the video wire, it was awesome, on DVD, not so much). Get an editor to get the best angles and give it a more polished feel. If I was living in PA, I'd volunteer
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KLRA
El Dandy
Halt. I am Reptar.
Posts: 7,591
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Post by KLRA on Nov 24, 2007 6:58:59 GMT -5
I think some of the problem "production wise" is that Gabe is apparently really resistent to things like that in order to avoid becoming to big, to soon. Hell, apparently it was a fight just to get Gabe to go along with the PPV.
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Post by Chuckie Finster on Nov 24, 2007 8:04:21 GMT -5
I think some of the problem "production wise" is that Gabe is apparently really resistent to things like that in order to avoid becoming to big, to soon. Hell, apparently it was a fight just to get Gabe to go along with the PPV. aka Gabe doesn't want to be just like Heyman and ECW. He lets Cary take care of the money, he keeps things at a moderate pace so things don't burn out, he isn't taking big risks and is in no hurry to gain masses of fans and go elsewhere. Sometimes he tries too hard to be the anti-Heyman in the ways Heyman was bad and it hurts the company in the short term. But overall, I see that a steady long-term plan is in effect and in Gabe (and Cary) we trust.
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Post by The Scuba Guy on Nov 24, 2007 8:20:42 GMT -5
One thing I've always wanted are some occasional Pulp Fiction-esque hype videos. Those old ECW ones did massive amounts to establish the characters, advance feuds, and provide really good vignettes. I'm not saying copy them exactly, but a five minute video with wrestlers getting to say their piece about their feuds would be really efficient. Related to the above, but more hype videos. They've shown they could do some really good ones, but they need a really good video editor to sort'em out and add more production value. Get their own editor to do some of the matches. Often times, there're 3 cameras but only 2 or so are actually used. And the shots that make the DVD aren't always the best ones (like Kenta giving Low Ki the Go 2 Sleep. On the video wire, it was awesome, on DVD, not so much). Get an editor to get the best angles and give it a more polished feel. If I was living in PA, I'd volunteer They could put the Pulp Fiction promos in the Video Wire?
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threev
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 601
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Post by threev on Nov 24, 2007 11:23:39 GMT -5
I'd like more of a variety of wrestling. It's getting better recently but for a while it was mostly the Americanized NOAH style with no-selling head drops, strikes and kicking out of everything under the sun. I'd like a good gimmicked match every now and then that tells a great story without a 20-minute match. And someone whose gimmick is to have "TV-style matches" and try to end it quickly and if they don't they try to leave and/or cheat to have the match over. I know Gabe could do it. A true secondary title that never comes into contest with the World Title. Something guys that can't go for the World Title can fight for(or overly-gimmicked wrestlers). And call it the Western States Heritage Championship. (or just bring in the ICW/ICWA Texarkana Television Title) And don't announce title matches ahead of other shows with title matches on them unless it's a doubleshot and try to put some doubt in it. I mean, did we really expect Cross and Aries to beat the Briscoes for the tag titles the night before the ladder war? Didn't Alvarez beat Sweeney for the ICW/ICWA title? I don't remember the results exactly. Yeah, he did, he only wrestled though, what, three or four matches this year, so he will lose it back sooner than later. As for what I would like from ROH: 1) National weekly television (I know, I know) 2) A decent web-site.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 24, 2007 19:41:11 GMT -5
As it was just said, Gabe is usually very slow to implement production changes due to basically wanting to keep production costs as low as possible as the company grows. It makes sense; if your in-ring product alone is allowing you to sell out multiple venues multiple times a year, then you shouldn't have to sink too much into the bells and whistles.
However, that doesn't mean that changes won't come; obviously, ROH looks, production wise, much better now than it even did three years ago, so it's not like it won't improve on that front.
What I'd like to see in that area:
1) Website work. It might cost a little, but it wouldn't cost THAT much to keep it updated, to spice up it's look, etc. etc. Have a roster page where each wrestler gets a bio and links to DVD's where they're heavily featured.
2) When in doubt, always improve the sound system. Even if the system you have works, it can always be better.
3) Announce team: I have no qualms at all with Prazak and Leonard, but I certainly am getting a bit tired of face/face straight up play-by-play commentary. Leonard occasionally does some good color work in that "baseball analyst" style of making sure the viewer catches onto the psychology being used and whatnot, but not enough. I say use both guys, but either turn Prazak heel (and thus introduce DP Associates to ROH), or, like they did with Punk, start using heels in the announce booth. Hell, you can use faces, too, but it doesn't work having two play-by-play voices. Wrestling announcers need partners they can bounce material off of.
Now, as for the actual product:
1) They've already started doing a better job of no longer presenting themselves as "NOAH Lite" or something. ROH has always been at it's best when it's had a ton of different styles of match on the card (i.e. striking-focused match, holds/slow paced match, high flying spotfest, then comedy match, etc.), and they're finally getting back to that after about six months of getting a bit too repetitive.
2) I don't hold it against them when Gabe or whoever hypes a big match early, especially because they'll sometimes throw that swerve of having a big match on the horizon, but having the champ drop the title at an unexpected point (i.e. nobody guessed Joe would drop it to Aries, everyone was anticipating Joe vs. Ki for the strap). That said, yes, there are certain things they need to do to avoid having the first halves of double shots feel like filler shows. Very often, those are solid shows with a lot of storyline movement going on, but you shouldn't have to deprive the Friday night crowds of big title switches, either.
3) Sweeney definitely needs another "client" to go along with Hero and Del Rey.
4) Don't be afraid to spread certain feuds out. Every now and then, they'll have a running feud where it feels like a whole bunch of singles matches are bunched together, and it kind of burns out too quickly.
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