The Internet is Hurting The Business: Part 1

[thestinger]

thwak said:

not saying that psychology is bad, but I remember kaz vs. angle which was a great match with alot of selling and the tna crowd was dead.

Kaz is the perfect example of what Disco is talking about. He's one of my favorite guys to watch but....

Last month he jumped off of the top of a ladder, and landed on top of another ladder when Christian moved out of the way. The announcers yelled, "He must have broken his leg!" And yeah, they weren't exaggerating. It REALLY looked like Kaz broke his leg.

But in about a minute, Kaz was on his feet, and he didn't even limp for the rest of the match. No ill effects. And them match was almost over. He only would have had to limp for a three or four minutes to sell the biggest high spot of the ppv.

Again, this guy has all the talent and potential in the world, and he's one of my favorites. But if you do a spot like that, you CANNOT shrug off the effects in one minute!

[Hypnotix]

Fortunately for Disco, this internet thing is just a fad and will likely die out in a year or so. Then the wrestling business will pick up again.

[leemir]

It's all entertainment really though, not just Pro Wres.

[Gillberg: 0-175]

angryfan said:

thwak said:

I think nash has a better idea of what's going on with IWF's then disco does.

nash said that they're good, but they don't have any time to sell. everyone complains that they don't sell in tna, but look at the amount of time they have.

the flipside to that point is that wrestlers these days have too big of move lists, but who knows.

Ding, ding, we have a winner.

If you've got, let's say, an X-division tag match. Pick any four random guys, I don't care. Disco, the bastion of wrestling knowledge (who swore openly for years that the entire Pillman thing was one big work because he "had sources" even after Pillman debuted in WWF) says the guys only sell for 8 seconds per move.

Let's say the tv tag match goes three minutes, right? Short and sweet, but all four guys have to try and get themselves over. That means that, assuming each guy has an equal ammount of time in the ring (I'll ignore the whole non-legal man fighting thing for now) each guy gets a whopping 45 seconds to show what he's got. That's less than one minute, once a week, plus any PPV time he gets, to establish himself.

Tell me, oh great Disco, how does one get over with casual fans with 45 seconds of offense in the ring per week?

Yeah, I wish there was more selling too, as many of us do I'm sure, but realistically, where do you fit that in? Fans can either come away saying "damn, he's got some good moves" or "wow, he got destroyed, but he takes a good beating". There ain't much in between with as little time as most of them get.

Well jeez, how did half the midcard in 1998 in WWF do it? That's basically the same premise there, and WWF made it work. These guys need to focus on maybe one/two real spots per match, and while they can still work a great high-flying style the rest of the match, sell the shit outta one or two spots to get guys over.

And I just love how angry you all get over this. "Disco is the anti-christ!" "Why are we listening to a wrestling Disco Stu?" well, shit, if Disco's opinion means nothing, then why are you all getting your panties in a bunch?

Yeah, his article is a bit incoherant and lacks transitions, but he's a f***ing PRO WRESTLER, not a journalist. But now I'll get "Then why is he being paid to write articles on WZ?" and I'll say: cause it gets all you suckers to read it.

FTW

[slasher911]

Part One: "Internet Wrestling Fans don't know what a good match is!"

Disco, I've seen your matches, and I don't think you know either.

[Reverend BTY]

doinksdoodoo said:

angryfan said:

Ding, ding, we have a winner.

If you've got, let's say, an X-division tag match. Pick any four random guys, I don't care. Disco, the bastion of wrestling knowledge (who swore openly for years that the entire Pillman thing was one big work because he "had sources" even after Pillman debuted in WWF) says the guys only sell for 8 seconds per move.

Let's say the tv tag match goes three minutes, right? Short and sweet, but all four guys have to try and get themselves over. That means that, assuming each guy has an equal ammount of time in the ring (I'll ignore the whole non-legal man fighting thing for now) each guy gets a whopping 45 seconds to show what he's got. That's less than one minute, once a week, plus any PPV time he gets, to establish himself.

Tell me, oh great Disco, how does one get over with casual fans with 45 seconds of offense in the ring per week?

Yeah, I wish there was more selling too, as many of us do I'm sure, but realistically, where do you fit that in? Fans can either come away saying "damn, he's got some good moves" or "wow, he got destroyed, but he takes a good beating". There ain't much in between with as little time as most of them get.

Well jeez, how did half the midcard in 1998 in WWF do it? That's basically the same premise there, and WWF made it work. These guys need to focus on maybe one/two real spots per match, and while they can still work a great high-flying style the rest of the match, sell the crap outta one or two spots to get guys over.

And I just love how angry you all get over this. "Disco is the anti-christ!" "Why are we listening to a wrestling Disco Stu?" well, crap, if Disco's opinion means nothing, then why are you all getting your panties in a bunch?

Yeah, his article is a bit incoherant and lacks transitions, but he's a smurfing PRO WRESTLER, not a journalist. But now I'll get "Then why is he being paid to write articles on WZ?" and I'll say: cause it gets all you suckers to read it.

FTW

98 WWF midcarders had 3 minute triple threat matches weekly??? I so don't remember this time period.

[Bocuma]

I would just post something funny but...he's trying to talk about us, right? The smarks if you will?

Well, last I checked, most of us can't stand Meltzer, more than half complain about "flippy floppy spotmonkeys" and we ALL hate when people don't sell.

So...what internet is he on?

[Error]

So he says that we don't know good wrestling and rely on Meltzer to know what's good in wrestling, yet then tells us to listen to him to know what's good?

Can't I just like what I like? Since when do I need an MMA obsessed Yahoo columnist or a washed up poker loving hack to tell me what I like? I know I am not the greatest at reading memos but, I think I would have noticed that one.

[The Line]

jinxed said:

So he says that we don't know good wrestling and rely on Meltzer to know what's good in wrestling, yet then tells us to listen to him to know what's good?

Can't I just like what I like? Since when do I need an MMA obsessed Yahoo columnist or a washed up poker loving hack to tell me what I like? I know I am not the greatest at reading memos but, I think I would have noticed that one.

Agreed!

[Deleted]

He takes a potshot against Jimmy Jacobs but, honestly, has Disco ever been as over as Jimmy? Jacobs was well liked with the "Berserker" gimmick and The Age of the Fall is infinitely better than anything Disco has done. Really, can anyone think of anything Disco has done that was as interesting as The Age of the Fall/ Project 161? Hell, his cage match wioth B.J. Whitmer was better than anything Disco's done.

[Gillberg: 0-175]

vincerussoisgod said:

doinksdoodoo said:

Well jeez, how did half the midcard in 1998 in WWF do it? That's basically the same premise there, and WWF made it work. These guys need to focus on maybe one/two real spots per match, and while they can still work a great high-flying style the rest of the match, sell the crap outta one or two spots to get guys over.

And I just love how angry you all get over this. "Disco is the anti-christ!" "Why are we listening to a wrestling Disco Stu?" well, crap, if Disco's opinion means nothing, then why are you all getting your panties in a bunch?

Yeah, his article is a bit incoherant and lacks transitions, but he's a smurfing PRO WRESTLER, not a journalist. But now I'll get "Then why is he being paid to write articles on WZ?" and I'll say: cause it gets all you suckers to read it.

FTW

98 WWF midcarders had 3 minute triple threat matches weekly??? I so don't remember this time period.

You must have. They always shoved makeshift teams together and the average match on RAW in 1998-1999 was roughly 3 minutes. Don't believe me?

BIG BOSSMAN & TEST & KEN "SLAP ME" SHAMROCK v. MIDEON & ACOLYTES - I don't think we need "No Chance in Hell" to continue to be their theme, thank you. Hey, BUTTERBEAN is in the crowd! Cole mentions Butterbean would like Bart Gunn in a BrawlforAll match. As you might expect, the three from the Ministry rush the ring and all six men don't stop the body rock. Bradshaw hooks up with Test, Faarooq draws Shamrock and Mideon and Bossman continue their feud. Somehow order is restored as Bossman and Mideon stay in the ring. Wouldn't it be the COOLEST if the "higher power" referred to by the Undertaker was the Jackyl? We know it isn't, but I can dream. "Shamrock sucks" chant even though he isn't in the ring. So YOU tell ME which of these six has all the charisma. What do you MEAN, you want a blow-by-blow for Bossman and Mideon? Okay. Bossman is in control. There's a scoop and a slam - you know Mideon is not a light man either. Piledriver set up - reversal to a back bodydrop. Whip into the opposite corner is reversed, 180 to the original corner. Lariat by Bossman, the Acolytes comes in to break up the pinfall, again all six men are in - the lights go out and the music starts up - here's UNDERTAKER & PAUL BEARER. The Ministry members stand on the ramp and stare - the Corporation members stand in the ring and stare - wait, the BROOD & VISCERA come out and they're carrying SKIPPY! The Acolytes and Mideon, then joined by the Brood, provide the human wall. "I should carve your heart out right here - but I don't think your father would really give a damn. But then again-" and he grabs Shane by the neck. "I do have something for you." as Shane, wearing the European title, by the way, says "Please don't cut me" over and over. Undertaker removes a contract from his coat and hands it to Shane. "Listen boy, give this to your father and tell him it comes from the Lord of Darkness." Cole identifies it as an "envelope" so I guess maybe it isn't a contract - stay tuned... oh yeah, (no contest, under 3:00)

A segment under 3 minutes and it got 14 people over, a title over, and planted the seeds for a major storyline. If this isn't enough proof, argue against me and I'll pull out a 2:19 match with Jeff Jarrett & Debra vs Ivory and D'Lo that got all of them over, plus Mark Henry. Credit goes to Slash Wrestling/CRZ.

[Deleted]

I just skipped to the last sentence, saw it was an internet website column and promptly never read a word

I think I made the right choice

[sexualvanilla]

I read this article a few years ago but I could never take it fully seriously since it is written by Disco Inferno, someone I would watch for years and wonder why he still had a job. But the lack of selling with certain guys I think could be attributed to the fact that there aren't a lot of veterans actively wrestling anymore, guys to show them the right and wrong guys to wrestle. Guys like Austin were veterans of the territories from way back when and knew how to sell. There aren't as many on the indy circuit wrestling with them or training them and that's why acrobatics are taking precedence. But with a company like ROH, I think a lot of the guys are getting much better at selling but whatever

[Cap'n Crud]

Just sounds like a bitter old hack who couldn't get it whining and grasping at flies. Nothing new here. Disco stop kidding yourself, You were a glorified curtain jerker in WCW and a charity case in TNA.

[Mr.K-itty]

you guys are taking this way too seriously...and this is just part 1 of (well i dunno how many but it says part 1)...and for what, some crap write-up from a guy whos only known for disco inferno??
gimme a break, its almost as bad as someone shooting their mouth here saying like "teh briscoez r l33t hardyz r lame..." and youre all buying it and jumpin on it all the same way as if it were just some regular joe...
why does everyone have to over-analyze EVERY word said absolutley everywhere? what happend to just watching wrestling for the pure enjoyment of doing so as compared to figuring theyre part of the wrestling business cuz theyve read a few news posts and watches RVDTito4lyfe....

[mysterydriver]

I love how some people just disregard this as "Who cares what Disco Inferno has to say!" instead of looking at the points he makes.

Now, others have actually made decent points against his arguments, but disregarding it because it was wrote by Disco is just...childish. In fact, you're probably making yourself look worse.

If Disco isn't allowed to criticize...then why should you be? You're just a fan. He was in the business.

See my point?

[Gillberg: 0-175]

mysterydriver said:

I love how some people just disregard this as "Who cares what Disco Inferno has to say!" instead of looking at the points he makes.

Now, others have actually made decent points against his arguments, but disregarding it because it was wrote by Disco is just...childish. In fact, you're probably making yourself look worse.

If Disco isn't allowed to criticize...then why should you be? You're just a fan. He was in the business.

See my point?

Sadly, I don't think I like wrestling for wrestling anymore. I haven't seen a show I've liked in years. I think I'm still on wrestling websites (which is my only involvement in wrestling anymore) just because I like to argue, and it's so easy to argue (and present such valid points) against many of the people in the IWC. After reading Disco's article, it's obvious that he's right about how 1/3 of the IWC are just sheep. After reading about 1/3 of the responces in this thread which are all basically the same, how can you disagree?

[Deleted]

mysterydriver said:

I love how some people just disregard this as "Who cares what Disco Inferno has to say!" instead of looking at the points he makes.
quote]

The problem I have with Disco talking about what constitutes good matches/ angles is that I don't believe he's ever been in one. He might be in the business, he might have been in creative, but look when that was: the Russo era in WCW. I bet Glen's a great guy, apparently he's one of Raven's best friends, but even Raven says he talks about his ass most of the time (as evidenced in Raven's shoots and such).

What gets me is that he pans Jacobs in such a dumb way, making himself sound like so many other bitter old guys in the process. It was like: I saw Jacobs at this show once, I hated his gimmick because he's small, and he didn't sell that much... in the one match I've seen him in, at the start at his career. The Age of the Fall is an awesome storyline, so why not view Jacobs at his best and not at his worst before making assumptions about a worker?

Disco might be in the business, but all he comes off in that article is a bitter guy who likes to talk about making the business better but, when pressed, probably couldn't do it.

[joeman]

I agree with many points Disco Inferno has said. Sadly, he won't be taken seriously since he is no Lance Storm or Bret Hart. I really stand watching the X-Division because it feels like a video game most of the time. I wonder if these guys would be getting up from spots like that in real life, because I must know what is in their water so I can be impervious to pain myself.

He does jump from one topic to another, but I don't think anyone should discredit his writing because he is Disco Inferno.

[joeman]

zenpuff said:

I would just post something funny but...he's trying to talk about us, right? The smarks if you will?

Well, last I checked, most of us can't stand Meltzer, more than half complain about "flippy floppy spotmonkeys" and we ALL hate when people don't sell.

So...what internet is he on?

It is funny, because almost everybody on the net accepts whatever NEWZ source the internet spurs out. Prime example of this is Droz. Months ago the NEWZ sites said that Stephanie Mcmahon fired him, yet he posted a blog a few days ago about Survivor Series. If your telling me NEWZ sites don't have any bias, I want to here a really good explanation of this.

And I believe that is what Disco Inferno is referring to imo.