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Post by doubleyou on May 1, 2005 0:04:52 GMT -5
Yeah, you're right -- we're Smarks who like to share opinions about wrestling. But you, however, don't have any opinions of your own. 'Triple H will go down in history as the best'. Uh, care to explain to us WHY?
And also...:
HHH jobs. Big deal. At WrestleMania XX and 21, jobbing WAS his job. He didn't do anything out of the norm.
Oh, and two jobs doesn't make up for all the times he didn't lose cleanly one on one in '02, '03 and '04. What I hate about Triple H is the fact that he has all the heat of 20+ months being champion, but as I said, he won't lose cleanly one on one, because he's 'preserving his heat', whatever the hell that means.
So, on Raw, you couldn't tell how Benoit was being held down? He had ONE short appearance when he came out and attacked Edge. Triple H, however, was in the opening segment, the last segment, and two segments around the middle of the show.
And the same goes for many other workers - Batista appeared in less segments than Triple H. Edge appeared in one segment. Kane appeared for about a minute. Chris Jericho and Shelton had a short segment together.
Triple H gets FOUR segments. And he's far from being the most over heel or face on Raw. So, f*** Triple H. No wonder I'd rather post on these forums and stray any attention from the TV while Raw is on.
WrestleMania XX's mainevent was the WWE's best match of the year (unless Eddie vs. Kurt tickled your fancy more). I won't say that any RoH or TNA matches weren't as good, because I don't watch either.
So, in conclusion; It's not necessarily because of his marriage with Stephanie that people hate him or love him, it won't be because of his relationship with Vince, it's because after 3 years of crowd marks and smarks being bored to s*** by him that he'll be remembered as a mediocre maineventer who held countless amounts of workers down, and buried their careers.
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Mr. Zombie
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Post by Mr. Zombie on May 1, 2005 2:59:05 GMT -5
I'm going to say this....the majority of people who watch wrestling don't like HHH. Its not good heat, either, its get off of my tv type heat. People don't want to see this guy anymore. He's been the top heel since what, '00? It doesn't matter how he wrestles, how many titles he has, whatever. The fact is that wrestling is all about the fans and putting on a show. Most fans don't want to see him on top, but he doesn't care. Thats the problem with the wwe right now. They don't know or really care about what the fan want (look at the Diva Search, clearly booed out of the building at MSG, but steph wants it so we're going to get it). But whatever, my point is that the large majority of wrestling fans don't care about how many titles he has held, how great his matches are, they just don't want to see him anymore. I don't feel sorry for him because he undermines anyone's title reign that isn't his, and I don't feel sorry for him because he's had his time in the sun and now he's just killing the business (not singlehandedly).
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Mr. Zombie
Don Corleone
The Original Chris Farley
Posts: 1,526
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Post by Mr. Zombie on May 1, 2005 3:06:54 GMT -5
On the other hand I disagree with people bashing him and stephs marriage as nothing but a power play. I disagree with anyone bashing their marriage in general, because a) who really cares b) its not our place to question their marriage, relationship, and the motivation behind it. I just don't like it when they get their marriage referred to as a power play because none of us really have any idea what they are about.
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Post by doubleyou on May 1, 2005 3:16:05 GMT -5
On the other hand I disagree with people bashing him and stephs marriage as nothing but a power play. I disagree with anyone bashing their marriage in general, because a) who really cares b) its not our place to question their marriage, relationship, and the motivation behind it. I just don't like it when they get their marriage referred to as a power play because none of us really have any idea what they are about. Nobody bashes their marriage; just what comes from the marriage in general.
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Post by Rorschach on May 1, 2005 4:07:48 GMT -5
I'm going to say this....the majority of people who watch wrestling don't like HHH. Its not good heat, either, its get off of my tv type heat. People don't want to see this guy anymore. He's been the top heel since what, '00? It doesn't matter how he wrestles, how many titles he has, whatever. The fact is that wrestling is all about the fans and putting on a show. Most fans don't want to see him on top, but he doesn't care. Thats the problem with the wwe right now. They don't know or really care about what the fan want (look at the Diva Search, clearly booed out of the building at MSG, but steph wants it so we're going to get it). But whatever, my point is that the large majority of wrestling fans don't care about how many titles he has held, how great his matches are, they just don't want to see him anymore. I don't feel sorry for him because he undermines anyone's title reign that isn't his, and I don't feel sorry for him because he's had his time in the sun and now he's just killing the business (not singlehandedly). See, that's just what I'm TALKING ABOUT..... The majority of us just want this over-inflated, self-important clown OFF of our TV's, so we can see, I dunno, SOMEONE else get a little TV time! I mean, God help me, I'd even like to see more Snitsky, Eugene, Kane, or even the god damned IC champion defend his title rather than be subjected to a fifteen minute HHH interview show opener where he roars about how he is " the Game" and he is "that damn good". Like I said earlier: ENOUGH! IF you are HALF the legend you say you are, then step aside and let the next guy have his run WITHOUT you being a major part of it! -He torpedoed Jericho's run with the Undisputed Title -He weighed down Benoit's reign, and then basically forced Benoit into the background in favor of his own meaningless feud with Michaels -He killed off a potential BLOCKBUSTER money feud with Kurt Angle (the whole Stephanie love triangle) and basically rendered the months of buildup moot -Hell, he basically brought back the WCW Title as a personal playtoy, just to use it to beat Flair's record. And that's STILL just the tip of the iceberg with this piece of crap.....
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Post by Rorschach on May 1, 2005 5:03:22 GMT -5
Check this out.....I made a post about HHH possibly starring in a Conan sequel in the off topic forum, and as a part of that post, I include several reader talk-back responses to that article, which comes from a NON WRESTLING SITE! They more than state my case! ATB's Kristina | May 11, 2004 As a wrestling fan, I can fill this in. Yes, HHH is jealous of The Rock. yes, he talks crap about The Rock backstage. yes, The Rock is a MUCH sexier beast than HHH. He's an egotistical bastard who squashes other wrestlers, and married the boss's daughter to cement his place in the company. I hate his guts, I hope he gets gonorrhea or something and falls of the face of the f****** earth. GO F*** YOURSELF, YOU BIG-NOSED DOUCHEBAG!!!!!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DarthMalice | May 11, 2004 Uh.....ditto? Kinda hard to follow that post. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- James | May 11, 2004 Yes, I'd sooner support the Rock's career aswell. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- largefarva | May 11, 2004 I was struggling to be objective -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kristina | May 11, 2004 Hey, that's just how I feel. I cant stand the prig, and I bet his movie will suck harder than Mr. Nanny. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- James | May 11, 2004 He was okay until he took over WWE and upset everyone. I hate the Blade films too, so I doubt I would watch the third. As for Conan, if John Milius is going with it - I don't know, it could work. It is a shame that the Wachowski's aren't on board anymore, nor Arnie. Oh well, diminishing returns and all that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kristina | May 11, 2004 Speaking of the W bros., did you hear that one of them is getting a SEX CHANGE OPERATION? No joke. I saw it at hollywoodbitchslap.com As for HHH, he's a pompous ass and I hope someone castrates his sorry ass. he's not that goos of a wrestler, and watching RAW every week to see him cut 20 minute promos about how great he is makes me want to kill myself. Check it.
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Post by doubleyou on May 1, 2005 7:30:35 GMT -5
I just came across a web page which details why many people refuse to accept Triple H as a credible, or entertaining champion in WWE, as well as facts which prove why certain wrestlers (particularly Jericho) do not get a fair chance, contrary to what some think. I'd like to see someone who tolerates Triple H's position in WWE argue against this... Heelish Aspects of Triple H:• Marries the boss's monumentally irritating daughter, stealing her away from a babyface Test. • Defeats the then-monstrous Big Show to get the title. • Gets his own regime, faction or "fac-gime" partially named after him. • Fires Mick Foley. • Is only forced to rehire Mick Foley after a threatened walkout of all wrestlers. • Is good friends with X-Pac and Billy Gunn. • At one point, has Vince, Shane and Stephanie McMahon as his assistant gas-bag mouthpieces. • Faces a potential love-triangle plot involving Kurt Angle and doesn't allow Angle to run off with his wife. • Defeats the famously tough Cactus Jack in a street fight. • Retires Mick Foley in the style of match that made Foley famous. • Gets twenty minutes to cut a promo at the beginning of virtually every Raw and SmackDown! for six months. • Gets an astonishingly large number of clean wins over top babyfaces. • Masterminds a plot to run over and nearly end the career of Steve Austin, the #1 babyface, resulting in Austin's broken neck and year off TV. • Gains the ability to walk away — with mere scratches — from a car accident far more severe than Austin's. • Inexplicably becomes Austin's best buddy and partner in a "Two-Man Power Trip." • Gets more TV time, while injured, than the lower-third of the card. "Beautiful Day" promos run ad infinitum for so long that viewers submit, in exhaustion, to the idea of Triple H as a babyface. • Attacks best friend and superstar Shawn Michaels in parking lot. • Is called, "The Cerebral Assassin."Okay, so that's what Triple H has going for him. Now let's look at Jericho's heel push. Heelish Aspects of Jericho:• Cheats to beat The Rock for the WCW Championship. • Becomes Undisputed Champion through illegal chair shots, assistance from Angle, Vince McMahon, Vince McMahon's hat, Snuffalupagus, a clown-car full of Macedonian gypsies, a Sasquatch and D.B. Cooper (who tastelessly descended to the ring from the ceiling, á la Owen Hart). • Never gets a clean pin after getting the title. • Never gets more than five minutes for promos — if he gets to cut a promo. • Has Stephanie McMahon as a manager — who then turns her back on him, and then is forced to leave TV. Then has no manager or hangers-on. • Jobs to Triple H, The Rock, RVD, Hulk Hogan, Edge and rookie John Cena. • Is called, "That Obnoxious/Arrogant Young Man."Also, the following quotes come from the same website: Credit to OnlineOnslaught's Jeb Tennyson Lund, who put it better than I ever could. Basically, the people who believe that Triple H is all he's made out to be suffer from the 'Big Lie' theory - they'be been told a lie for so many years, and believe it.
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Post by FailedGimmick on May 1, 2005 10:07:53 GMT -5
Snuffalupagus?
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Post by phentari on May 1, 2005 10:38:39 GMT -5
Basically, the people who believe that Triple H is all he's made out to be suffer from the 'Big Lie' theory - they'be been told a lie for so many years, and believe it. *Shrug* I don't. I've made no secret of the fact that, personally, I don't particularly find Triple H interesting--if you like, you can do a search on my last long-winded rant, which was on why I think his current position is bad for the company. In a nutshell, it boils down to this: Triple H has succeeded in convincing me that he'll never really be defeated, beyond minor setbacks--and the second he convinced me of that, he removed all reason for me to ever watch the show on which he appears. On the other hand...how can I put this? I'm a writer. I love what I do, and I'm competent at it. I'm far from being the best writer in the world, but I know that, if I want it badly enough, if I work hard enough for it, I might one day reach the level where I'm regarded as the best of my generation. It's damned unlikely, and it would take incredibly hard work, but it's at least possible. There's a snag, though: Tennesee Williams is a distant relative of mine (a third cousin twice removed, if I recall correctly.) I ask myself how I would feel if I knew that, no matter HOW hard I worked for it, I would never be remembered as anything other than Tennesee Williams' distant cousin. I don't think I'd like that feeling very much...and that brings us back to Triple H and HIS struggle to be remembered as more than Mr. Stephanie McMahon. I don't much like the guy. I don't find him entertaining. I don't DISlike him enough to wish that kind of fate on him, though.
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Post by hack1981 on May 1, 2005 10:39:09 GMT -5
My own feeling on Triple H is that his character is just plain boring. He always bored me, always will. If his character was really interesting and made me wanna tune in every week, I wouldn't give a damn about who he was married to in real life, nor who he was holding down. As long as he's entertaining, none of that backstage stuff matters. But he's not entertaining in any way, shape, or form.
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Post by tripleh on May 1, 2005 11:27:18 GMT -5
Basically, the people who believe that Triple H is all he's made out to be suffer from the 'Big Lie' theory - they'be been told a lie for so many years, and believe it. I admit I come off as a total HHH mark. I've been surfing the Wrestlecrap forums for years. I just joined recently because the HHH bashing has really gone over the edge. I've been watching Benoit, Jericho, and Eddie since the early 90's. I like them. I've, along with many people, watched them slowly work there way up the ladder. I think Jericho is better as a heel. I don't enjoy him as a face. I'm happy he's not in the main event picture. Send him to Smackdown and give him a heel turn and I'll root for him too. I like Benoit, I was happy when he won the title at WM. I'll admit they could've done more with him as champion. They used him to put Orton over. HHH didn't score a clean victory over him. Benoit made HHH TAP at WM. I personally hated the whole Orton title push. I'm not going to sit here and moan though. I think they dropped the ball by turning Orton face. It's obvious by the fact he's already heel again. I like Eddie. I think he is great. I'm excited for his program with Rey. I don't hope HHH holds the title forever. I feel this program with Batista is a great one. I think if you write this program off you just don't understand what pro wrestling is about. We'll see tonight at Backlash. We'll see how good of a buy HHH v. Batista 2 does. I personally like the Pro-Boxing type build-up, HHH v. Batista TWO!!! I think it's fresh. I'm honestly unsure of how the match will turn out. HHH may hog the spotlight but wouldn't you? He worked damn hard to get where he is. How many years did Sammartino hold the title for? How many years did Hogan hold the title? HHH IS a draw. People want to see him lose. When he does have his big blow-off program for some time off. I can bet the buy will be great. If he works a Lose leaves WWE match with someone I can bet everyone will tune in to watch him lose. In my eyes I see a man who worked damn hard to get to the top. I see a man who finish a match with a serious injury. I see a man who want the WWE to flourish. I see ratings slowly rising. It's not like he is immortal (no pun intended). He won't be around forever. He still puts on ***+ matches every PPV he main events. I'd rather watch HHH v. Batista than Cena v. Bradshaw. I WILL NOT buy Vengenge. Cena v. Bradshaw was a piss-poor example of a World title match. I don't sit around and listen to HHH's speeches in my spare time. I like my Main Events high impact. I like KNOWING I'm going ot get a ***+ star match. HHH is the reason I shell out for PPV's. I KNOW he will give me my money's worth. That's how I rate a great wrestler. He makes me want to buy PPV's. Maybe you guys see a man who is hogging airtime but WWE sees a man who makes money and is increasing rating. He doesn't do it on his own, but why fix what isn't broken. Everyone thinks they know what they are talking about, they don't. It's all about $$$. Triple H makes $$$. As a fan you might not get it, maybe you do. Until HHH's money making ability begins to wane he SHOULD be on top. Everyone loves Heenan. Go to highspots and pick up his shoot. He explains about how people complain about Hogan holding people down. It may give you a new insight on the business everyone here seems to know so much about. In closing, I like HHH. He's a company man and a great wrestler. He's headlining the PPV tonight. He will give me my money's worth. Benoit v. Edge will give me my money's worth. As a consumer I want my money's worth. If HHH cut a 20min promo on the PPV I'd be pissed. He's doesn't when you're paying to see him put on a match he does just that. I respect him for it.
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General Zod
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Post by General Zod on May 1, 2005 12:17:02 GMT -5
While HHH probably has a better understanding of ring psychology than half of the RAW locker room, he certainly does use his position with the company to make things better for himself above all others.
Even non-smarky casual fans know that he's a "McMahon". It's not a huge secret or anything.
That being said, as a preformer, HHH is watchable. The fact that he does bust his ass is often overlooked by the fact that he's married to the mob.
I don't think he deserves nearly the clobbering he gets from the internet community, although I can clearly see why he gets it, too.
And you know what? In the end, it's not going to matter. He'll wind up owning part of that company, so get used to the idea of HHH being on your TV set for the next 35 years.
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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on May 1, 2005 13:03:02 GMT -5
After reading all that I thought there were some quite good points being made except this one. Especially that last line. Ok Flair I recognise has done a lot for the business . . . and a comparison with HHH & Flair would be a waste of time. While Jericho is probably about equal with Trips. ( i'll do some research into Jericho's wwe history) However what has Benoit or Guerrero done for the business that is more relevant than HHH. Lets take a look at these 2 likely lads (i'll be concentrating on wwe/f here mostly) . . Chris Benoit: Well for a start he hardly draws in the average fan . . . and by this I mean he is not a Jericho/Eddie/Cena/Edge/Austin/HBK/Angle (I mean how many times have you asked an average fan who there favorite wrestler is and been met with the responce "Benoit he's great"). . . He may be the crippler/wolverine . . . but his character is average . . . mr intense, so was Sid Vicious . . . in terms of charisma he is severly lacking, of course people turn up to see his ring skills, which recently have been the same moves in every match . . . . . Big feuds he's been involved in . . . err . . . Kurt Angle, Radicalz and maybe the Rock a while back . . . His best moment was his title win last year/rumble win . . . but in comparison with HHH that is hardly better than what HHH has achieved. He is a upper-midcarder at best . . . a good technical one but nothing more. Eddie G: He's got the latin-american fan base . . . and has talent in the ring . . . but what great feuds or wrestling moments has eddie participated in to make him more important than HHH. Hmm . . .the LWO ;D. . . a romance with Chyna . . . then has some personal problems to deal with . . returns is involved with the Chavo for a bit and then out of the blue wins the title off Lesnar when wwe knew he was going to play football. . . . . .wow what a history . . HHH: ok so he's not Angle in the ring but he can be good . . and his mic work is good if a little long. The game character works for his character and I can't see him changing it as it is him . . . like Flair is suave yet dirty player . . . . Fan base . . well everyone hates him and as a heel he can't ask for much more really. Memorable feuds with HHH . . . DX, the retirement of Mick Foley, His feuds with the Rock and Austin . . . Sure Austin/Rock were the stars but you need a good heel for them to play off for it to work . . . Katie Vick (it was abysmal but everyone remembers it ;D) . . . Evolution . . HHH is far less relevant or important than Eddie or Benoit . . . yeah right . . .
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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on May 1, 2005 15:22:05 GMT -5
bump
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Post by HMARK Center on May 1, 2005 16:02:19 GMT -5
I will say this: Hunter IS less relevant to the business than someone like Eddy is.
No future workers are going to be inspired by Hunter's ring style, or his lack thereof. I suppose he will inspire some future wrestlers to work their way into the sacred art of nepotism, but that's nothing new, really.
No, instead, Triple H's reign at the top basically encompasses a dive in popularity for the WWE, non-existent houseshow attendence, low buyrates (outside of Wrestlemania), and, like I said before, a ringstyle that won't be emulated due to it's lack of psychology and variety.
Meanwhile, the Guerrero's, Angle's, and Benoit's of the world inspire younger workers, and that's already more than evident in many of the younger wrestlers of today. It was also men like them who helped give ECW a wider appeal, showing it was more than just a hardcore haven.
Triple H will obviously go down as the more famous wrestler, but, as far as impact on the business goes, Triple H will build himself a legacy through words and hindsight and attempt to convince the world that it's legit, not unlike he's doing now with his "best wrestler alive" schtick. In the end, really, his legacy within the business isn't likely going to match that of the many, many wrestlers with more talent than him.
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Post by thehatman on May 1, 2005 16:23:59 GMT -5
Seriously--put yourself in his shoes for just a second. Imagine having to hear, on a regular basis, that you don't give a damn about your wife and that you only married her so you could have a shiny gold belt around your waist. Hasn't he mentioned, numerous times, even, that not only he doesn't care about the internet wrestling community (which, if I recall correctly, are about the only ones pissing and moaning about HHH), he already thinks he's got his legacy going. Seriously, the only thing I've got against HHH is that all his opponents are the same. He should spend some time in the midcard to get some fresh faces and heels into the title range. Elevating people will give him better feuds for the title and will give him his legacy legitimately. It's true though. Who here wouldn't want to see Benoit/Jericho for the title? Shelton with a whole new dimension to his matches (let's face it, the WHT makes matches inherently better, or at least, gives the superstars a chance to truly hine). Plus, by thinning out the midcard (by elevating new wrestlers), it makes the midcard less stale to write for and especially less stale to watch. Honestly, I'm tired of seeing Christian lose. The guy is ever-so deserving of a push and he gets none. Why? 'cause the midcard is populated by what should be main eventers.
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Warwolf
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Post by Warwolf on May 1, 2005 21:25:57 GMT -5
Triple H will break the record for most world titles because he deserves it. He is truely The Game. I'm sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but Hulk Hogan has the current record, according to wikipedia.com. 2 AWA World titles. (Yes two. Check the website.) 1 reign in NJPW as the IWGP champion. (That's the NJPW World title, folks.) 6 WWF Championship reigns. EIGHT WCW Championships. And one NWA South Eastern Heavyweight championship. (Whatever the hell NWA Southeast became, if it ever became it's own fed without NWA affiliation, he was among the world champs for the fed simply due to the transformation into the world championship for a newly re-named promotion.) Now unless my math is wrong, that makes Hogan either seventeen or eighteen time World champion. (Depends on what the hell NWA Southeast became) Flair has 16 titles from two major promotions, one of which no longer exists. Hogan has three belts on Flair. Triple H is trying to beat FLAIR'S record, not Hulk Hogan's. So if he thinks becoming a seventeen time world champ is the way to go, then fine. But he'll still be tied with Hulk Hogan.
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Warwolf
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Post by Warwolf on May 1, 2005 21:50:08 GMT -5
HHH may hog the spotlight but wouldn't you? He worked damn hard to get where he is. How many years did Sammartino hold the title for? How many years did Hogan hold the title? HHH IS a draw. People want to see him lose. I can answer that for you. Hulk Hogan's first reign as WWF Champion lasted just a little over four years. But that was his FIRST reign. Repeat, his FIRST reign. It was at a time when people were given a champion that they LIKED, and at a time when they wanted to see a long running champion. Hogan's second reign lasted approxmately one year. His third lasted seven months. His fourth lasted less than a week due to being stripped of it. His fifth reign lasted two months and his sixth reign lasted about three weeks, tops. And this is HULK FRICKING HOGAN. You know, the guy people say hogged the WWF championship too much in his day? The guy a lot of people bash more than they bash Trips? Well, let me point out that from 1999 to 2005, Triple H has won no less than TEN freaking world championships. Ten! Do you realize how messed up that is?! That's like two reigns every damn year for the last seven years! Okay, someone remind me why Hogan is getting more flak for how many times he was WWF champion than Triple H is? Hogan had six reigns, which combined total is only about five years, and that's over a twenty years timeframe. And I'm not counting the 8 WCW reigns. (Yes eight. Seven in WCW under the turner regime -since Hogan did pin Jarrett for the belt at Bash at the Beach 2000 because Russo was having a fit that he couldn't screw the fans over by building a program between Hogan and Jarrett for the belt and then deny fans the payoff by having Hogan lose to Jarrett. As far as I'm concerned, that win stands as a WCW championship reign. It's also the one thing I hold against Booker T- and one reign in the WWF when the title was merged with the WWF belt as the Undisputed WWF Championship, which was later revived. And if you think that it shouldn't hold true, well here's a newsflash. Kane was listed as a former holder of what is now called the World Championship, AS WAS BOOKER T, who hasn't held the title since losing it to the Rock when it was still referred to as the WCW Championship. If Booker can be on the list as a former World Champ in connection with the new record in place, so can Hogan.) Anyway, my point is, 2 reigns as champion every year for seven years? Am I the only one who finds that screwed up?
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Post by tripleh on May 1, 2005 22:10:53 GMT -5
Anyway, my point is, 2 reigns as champion every year for seven years? Am I the only one who finds that screwed up? It's a different era. The title changes hand much more. In the whole decade of the 80's the Intercontinental title changed hands 14 time. In 10 years the title changed hands 14 times. In 2000 the Intercontinental title changed hands 11 times. In 1 year the title changed hands 11 times. How can you possibly compare Hogan to HHH? Today the whole industry works at a much faster rate. You've been HHH'd...
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Post by whipwreckisgod on May 1, 2005 22:12:07 GMT -5
A non-objective fan will remember him for his stellar Wrestlemania main events. And I assume you're completely non - objective. Yeah I'll remember him for Wrestlemania. I'll remember his great match with Warrior or maybe I'll remember his amazing record at Wrestlemania.
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