Warwolf
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Post by Warwolf on May 1, 2005 22:13:59 GMT -5
How can you possibly compare Hogan to HHH? Good question. Considering how much BETTER Hogan was as Champion (Hell, considering how much better Hogan is than Triple H PERIOD) it does seem insane that I would compare someone like Hogan to Triple Suck. And bud, you've just felt the power of the pack.
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Post by tripleh on May 1, 2005 22:30:11 GMT -5
Good question. Considering how much BETTER Hogan was as Champion (Hell, considering how much better Hogan is than Triple H PERIOD) it does seem insane that I would compare someone like Hogan to Triple Suck. And bud, you've just felt the power of the pack. You compared the Title reigns of Hogan and HHH. You CAN NOT compare them by length of the reign. It's apples and oranges. Now if you want to compare in ring ability HHH by far. If you want to compare mic skills, Hogan by far. If you want to compare title reigns I give the edge to HHH. He has fought more quality matches in teh past few years than Hogan has put on in his career. I like the in ring action more. Some people like the entertainment. Some people like the wrestling. I lean towards wrestling. I like a good talker. I really like a good wrestler. I'd take Shelton over Kane anyday. I'd take HHH over Hogan anyday.
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Warwolf
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Post by Warwolf on May 1, 2005 22:44:31 GMT -5
You compared the Title reigns of Hogan and HHH. You CAN NOT compare them by length of the reign. It's apples and oranges. Now if you want to compare in ring ability HHH by far. If you want to compare mic skills, Hogan by far. If you want to compare title reigns I give the edge to HHH. He has fought more quality matches in teh past few years than Hogan has put on in his career. I like the in ring action more. Some people like the entertainment. Some people like the wrestling. I lean towards wrestling. I like a good talker. I really like a good wrestler. I'd take Shelton over Kane anyday. I'd take HHH over Hogan anyday. Excuse me. Did you just say Triple Suck has better RING SKILLS? Hey, I know Hogan's been forced to wrestle as a brawler in the states, but if you'd ever seen his Japanese moveset, you wouldn't be saying that. Hogan put on great shows in Japan. And no, Hogan has put on far better title matches in my opinion than Triple H has. Think of the caliber of people Hogan put on matches against. Many of the people he wrestled against were former or future champions. Iron Shiek, Volkoff, Flair, Sting, Undertaker, Slaughter, Piper, Orndorf, Bob Orton Jr. King Kong Bundy, Randy Savage, Andre the Giant, Sting, Vader, Sid Vicious, (yes, Sid Vicious may be oddball, but he's still a former World champion so he deserves to be listed here.), Ultimate Warrior in his prime, Jerry Lawler, Great Muta, Akira....something or other. (I forget who it was.) Stan Hansen, The Nasty Boys, our own John Tenta aka Earthquake, Typhoon, Ted DiBiase, IRS, Greg The Hammer Valentine, The Honky Tonk Man, and of course, the late great Yokozuna. All of these guys nearly pounded Hogan flat in their matches and got a rub from it. Trips has had some okay matches, that I will admit. But most of the people he's fought, have gotten buried completely as a result. Let's look at who he's buried, shall we? Booker T, Kane, RVD, Jeff Hardy, The Hurricane, Mick Foley is the exception here folks he was popular enough to survive it, Ric Flair, Randy Orton, Big Show (this guy could have been GREAT if booked correctly.) Goldberg (another guy who could have been booked great if they'd handled him right.), Jericho, most of the members of the corporation including Test, Ken Shamrock, and several more recent wrestlers in the last seven years. The difference here is that while Hogan may have won a majority of his matches whether with or without the belt, his opponents managed to keep their heat and gained in notoriety for having nearly done in the legendary Hulk Hogan. While those Triple H goes up against lose their heat immediately after wrestling against him and have to work at regaining it all over again.
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Post by tripleh on May 1, 2005 22:51:26 GMT -5
The difference here is that while Hogan may have won a majority of his matches whether with or without the belt, his opponents managed to keep their heat and gained in notoriety for having nearly done in the legendary Hulk Hogan. While those Triple H goes up against lose their heat immediately after wrestling against him and have to work at regaining it all over again. Your whole post is crazy. I've seen Hogan in Japan. Have you seen Sid when he was young? He used to do legdrops off the top rope. Big deal, he didn't whip that out in his match with Taker at WM 13. You neglected to mention HhH worked with; Micheals, Austin, Angle, Big Show, Rock, Hogan, Goldberg, Hogan, Nash, Undertaker and many more. Everyone of those men are still huge draws and gained heat from working with HHH. You see what you want to see. Take Hogans top 5 matches and compare them to HHH's. Hogan won't hold a candle to HHH. If you think otherwise you must have something wrong with your eyes.
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Post by tripleh on May 1, 2005 22:52:20 GMT -5
Compare Hogan v. Taker to HHH v. Taker...
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B.A.
Grimlock
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Post by B.A. on May 1, 2005 23:08:13 GMT -5
its like this,
hhh is known to hold people down, but hogans ego was known to control peoples paths, trips just wants to be the best i think
no so fast, lets examine some, and they would have to be around the 80s like andre, warrior, slaughter, such and such even rock if you want all eras, trips matches arent memorable i think cause he beats them, and gets the belt back, remember your list, its pretty sad though but lets put it this way hhh and hogan are two different people, in a match now? hogan would have to go over, cause the fans would immediately pick up trips ego trying to determine the outcome and the fact that..cmon its freaking hulk hogan
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Warwolf
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Post by Warwolf on May 1, 2005 23:09:13 GMT -5
Your whole post is crazy. I've seen Hogan in Japan. Have you seen Sid when he was young? He used to do legdrops off the top rope. Big deal, he didn't whip that out in his match with Taker at WM 13. You neglected to mention HhH worked with; Micheals, Austin, Angle, Big Show, Rock, Hogan, Goldberg, Hogan, Nash, Undertaker and many more. Everyone of those men are still huge draws and gained heat from working with HHH. You see what you want to see. Take Hogans top 5 matches and compare them to HHH's. Hogan won't hold a candle to HHH. If you think otherwise you must have something wrong with your eyes. I am blind in one eye and have been since birth but that's not the issue here. Let's look at the men you mentioned that I neglected to mention: Micheals, Austin, Angle, Big Show, Rock, Hogan, Goldberg, Hogan, Nash, Undertaker. Firstly, I DID mention Goldberg and Big Show. Re-read my last post. As for Michaels, he has never been buried by Trips because the two are friends and Shawn was already hugely over with the crowd before modern day Trips wrestled him, Likewise for Austin, Angle, Rock, Hogan (whom you mentioned in that post twice by the way.), Nash, and Undertaker. I should also point out that Nash is another of Trips' friends and that he left the company shortly after their match inside the HIAC at Bad Blood. These men were the EXCEPTIONS, like Foley was, not the rule. There's a reason I haven't mentioned the wrestlers Tips has FAILED to bury. And that's because Trips has buried far more than he has failed to bury. You say I see what I want to see. You also say to take Hogan's five top matches and compare them to Triple H's. Well, given that you named yourself Triple H, and are arguing on his side of the field, let's put things into perspective. Hogan, in the span of 20 years in the business had great matches with several wrestlers, INCLUDING The Undertaker in a trio of fantastic matches for the WWF Championship in 1991, and another in 2002. He also had great matches with the likes of the Iron Shiek, Volkoff, piper, Flair, Jerry Lawler, Muta, Akira what's-his-name, Randy Savage....hmmm, I think I'm sensing a pattern here. Most of the matches Hogan has had have been between great and flat out amazing. (Take the Stan Hansen match at the Tokyo Dome on Hulkamania 6 for example. Fantastic stuff.) Triple H however, had mediocre matches in his early days in WCW, and about the same in the WWF until 1998. He suffered the quad injury in 2001, and aside from his matches with Jericho at WrestleMania X8 and his title loss to Hulk Hogan at Backlash 2002, he hasn't had a really STELLAR match in a LONG time. Hogan still gets the lead here so far. More well known names for opponents, and title reigns that actually held distinction. And despite being told to wrestle a very limited style in America, he's still the most recognizable name in wrestling history and is one of the most over guys in history. Triple H can't claim any of that. Advantage: Hogan.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 1, 2005 23:16:38 GMT -5
Ok, first off, while Hogan worked better matches in Japan, he was NOT a ring wizard by ANY stretch of the imagination. He was decent, nothing more.
As for the rest of the debate, nothing's changed. Triple H is still a slow, plodding, limited worker who thinks he's Harley Race. Nothing to see here, people, move along.
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Post by Rorschach on May 2, 2005 0:17:09 GMT -5
Again, my main beef is that the guy just can't see the damage he's doing to a sport that he supposedly loves. One man keeping a stranglehold on the top spot NEVER worked for any promotion, just read "The Death of WCW" for proof. Funny how such a "student of the game" can so utterly fail to see that.
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Mr. Zombie
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Post by Mr. Zombie on May 2, 2005 0:24:08 GMT -5
Okay here's the thing with wrestling.....it doesn't matter if the match is 'technical" or a "brawl" or whatever, a match only has one barometer. Are the fans entertained and are they reacting to the match. I think a lot of people forget that when they talk about wrestling. The large majority of fans don't care about a wrestlers moveset and how technical they are. They just want to react and be entertained and root for their heroes. Entertainment is the key word. I dunno, I haven't seen anyone react to anything HHH has done in a long time outside of get beat up by Hurricane and Rosie. It took a beating by two massive underdog babyfaces for him to get any reaction. Yeah HHH may know more moves than Hogan and may use them more, and he may be considered a better "wrestler", but so what? For most fans, his matches aren't entertaining by any means. they just don't want to see him anymore. Thats the bottom line. HHH could go out and pull a 360 twirling moonslault frogsplash from the rafters, but the fans still don't care about him. He's not entertaining. HHH has a match with a big man and its boring as hell. His whole career, he's had to rely on others to make him look good and entertain the crowds. Look who his "classic" matches are against. -Now, watch any Hogan match from anytime during the 1980s and early 90s, and early nWo in wCw. He may be using a punch kick offense, but look at the crowd react to him. Its incredible. He knows when to hit the high spots, when to get beat down, when to come back, and when to make his opponent look strong. Thats wrestling in a nutshell for like 95% of the fans. Thats playing the crowd. For the large majority of fans, they don't care if a match is considered a technical classic. They just want to be entertained. Hogan made matches with big plodding men entertaining. Look at him fight the Sheik, Andre, and Earthquake and Warrior. They were entertaining as hell back in the day, but more importantly, look at the crowd. They were into every minute of his matches. HHH couldn't have made those matches entertaining, even with his more expanded moveset.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 2, 2005 0:28:34 GMT -5
You also have to remember, though, that many of those matches came from a different time, before many fans had access to better ringwork.
The thing with that ringwork (for example, the '94 Super J Cup (considered THE Super J Cup to have in your collection), or some recent US indy shows) is that you often get that great psychology, ALONG with great wrestling. I ain't ashamed to say it, I'm spoiled. It's very hard to go back, especially when modern day WWE is not only lacking in movesets, but also in psychology.
However, I definaetly agree with what you're saying in principle; a Hulk Hogan match, no matter how slow or boring, at least tended to tell a story, and get the crowd involved. I rarely see that out of Hunter.
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Warwolf
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Post by Warwolf on May 2, 2005 0:56:14 GMT -5
However, I definaetly agree with what you're saying in principle; a Hulk Hogan match, no matter how slow or boring, at least tended to tell a story, and get the crowd involved. I rarely see that out of Hunter. While I never found Hogan's matches slow or boring, but I agree that Trips doesn't have the same ability to tell a story in the ring, and that's a large part of what puts Hogan above Helmsley.
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Post by luckyd27 on May 2, 2005 1:04:46 GMT -5
Hey Triple H (the poster, not the wrestler)... Your little saying under your avatar doesn't hold truth with me because any fan of HHH (which you obviously are) is a friend of mine. I welcome you in helping me and the 1 or 2 other HHH fans here in fighting off all the HHHaters.
Good luck, they're a mean bunch.
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Phoenix
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Post by Phoenix on May 2, 2005 1:06:05 GMT -5
I jsut watched Hogan/Warrior for the first time in about ten years yesterday and it about put me to sleep. This was considered one of the greatest matches ever back then but now it is kinda dull. This is just because we have been spoiled by all the high spots and non stop action that goes on by wrestlers today. But on the other hand when i watched it again it told a wonderful story through out the match. So it just goes to show that you cant compare the two just because of what a good watch is today isnt the same as a good match in the 80's early 90's.
Sorry just my 2 cents
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EZ: Brainy Bae
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Post by EZ: Brainy Bae on May 2, 2005 10:10:06 GMT -5
I'd still prefer HHH over Hogan anyday.I cant believe people can say HHH has gone stale when Hogan has been doing the same thing for over 20 years.
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B.A.
Grimlock
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Post by B.A. on May 2, 2005 10:21:26 GMT -5
why dont you try to say that 15 years from now or so, hhh will be cheered and worshipped for what he does..now!..as to what hogan did and is getting now
i dont see any chance, his politics have held down too many people, not ruined them however even though ones like jericho may be past any more fame they can get(and by the way, hes leaving this year so thats one thing you cant take back)
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Mr. Zombie
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Post by Mr. Zombie on May 2, 2005 14:34:05 GMT -5
Look at the number of people who enjoy HHH. Now put that up against the number of people who don't enjoy HHH. That should tell you something.
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Post by tripleh on May 2, 2005 14:57:05 GMT -5
I'd still prefer HHH over Hogan anyday.I cant believe people can say HHH has gone stale when Hogan has been doing the same thing for over 20 years.
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The Happnin' Mojo
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Post by The Happnin' Mojo on May 2, 2005 15:05:15 GMT -5
Well since we're giving our opinions, whole thread has been nothing BUT opinions, I think Angle will go down as the Best of All time, and I feel sorry for him that he has a crap neck and we may not be able to watch him for long......I'd rather have 5 more years of Angle then 20 of Trips.
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Post by phentari on May 2, 2005 17:47:21 GMT -5
Well since we're giving our opinions, whole thread has been nothing BUT opinions, I think Angle will go down as the Best of All time, and I feel sorry for him that he has a crap neck and we may not be able to watch him for long......I'd rather have 5 more years of Angle then 20 of Trips. Oh, heck, agreed. Absolutely. I honestly think, though, that even if Angle retires today, he'll be remembered as one of the greats--and I don't know if Trips'll get that even if he DOES wrestle for 20 more years.
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