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Post by funkycm on Feb 10, 2009 2:09:31 GMT -5
...and all this happened in Canada where Jericho is like royalty. during his intro, it was probably 50/50 cheers and boos. He got on the mike to re-inforce his heel status (by trashing Canada) and the crowd treated him as a heel afterwards. I'm assuming this is the source of the "embarassment to Canada" comments at the start of the 1st video
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Post by Rorschach on Feb 10, 2009 2:21:45 GMT -5
I'm glad to see that so many people here think it's perfectly okay for a grown man to hit a woman if the man happens to be a famous wrestler. Jericho should be in jail. The fans that assaulted/battered him should also be in jail. To be honest, I really don't think many are taking Jericho's status into consideration at all. I think the majority of folks are simply saying that it doesn't MATTER if she's a woman after she flat out ATTACKS you. Granted, as I pointed out, there were better ways to handle this; however, once this woman turned violent, she lost her "softer sex" protection benefits. I don't know of many men who would sit there passively, arms at thier sides, while a woman kicks the ever loving bejeezus out of them. Sooner or later you're going to lash out in retaliation/self protection.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,293
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 10, 2009 3:26:06 GMT -5
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I don't believe in chivalry. Call me new fashioned, but women aren't delicate flowers that wilt at the sight of violence. She was just as culpable as the men.
If nothing else, this whole business inspired my new sig. ;D
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Post by Time Lord Soundwave on Feb 10, 2009 6:39:15 GMT -5
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Post by D2: Sweet & Sour Edition on Feb 10, 2009 7:25:39 GMT -5
i would of peed on em all This was Jericho, not Homicide.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2009 8:23:11 GMT -5
I'm glad to see that so many people here think it's perfectly okay for a grown man to hit a woman if the woman in question repeatedly assaults you up to and including shoving you head-first into the door frame of your car.corrected.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Feb 10, 2009 9:15:15 GMT -5
I'm glad to see that so many people here think it's perfectly okay for a grown man to hit a woman if the man happens to be a famous wrestler. Jericho should be in jail. The fans that assaulted/battered him should also be in jail. What you're forgetting is that woman was also grown enough to know better to not go and try to assault Jericho. If she's willing to be man enough to throw punches, she should be man enough to take the retaliation.
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Post by Widow's Peak on Feb 10, 2009 10:34:29 GMT -5
Credit: Bill Behrens According to several WWE superstars that were at the house show in Victoria, there was a mob of fans that were not only going after Chris Jericho but other wrestlers as well. This group of fans were apparently surrounding the cars of wrestlers as they were trying to leave the arena. The fans would start pounding their fists on the cars and security wasn't doing much of anything. One wrestler said: "never leave the car... that was the mistake Jericho made." It's amazing that people keep forgetting this. Yes, he was provoked. Yes, security sucked. But the whole thing could have been avoided if he'd have just stayed in his car. I'm glad to see that so many people here think it's perfectly okay for a grown man to hit a woman if the man happens to be a famous wrestler. Jericho should be in jail. The fans that assaulted/battered him should also be in jail. What you're forgetting is that woman was also grown enough to know better to not go and try to assault Jericho. If she's willing to be man enough to throw punches, she should be man enough to take the retaliation. There is a huge difference between self defense and retaliation. Self defense is using just enough force to disable your attacker and get to safety. So if someone slaps you and you respond by beating them senseless, then you would be the one at fault because you used more force than necessary.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2009 10:57:32 GMT -5
Credit: Bill Behrens According to several WWE superstars that were at the house show in Victoria, there was a mob of fans that were not only going after Chris Jericho but other wrestlers as well. This group of fans were apparently surrounding the cars of wrestlers as they were trying to leave the arena. The fans would start pounding their fists on the cars and security wasn't doing much of anything. One wrestler said: "never leave the car... that was the mistake Jericho made." It's amazing that people keep forgetting this. Yes, he was provoked. Yes, security sucked. But the whole thing could have been avoided if he'd have just stayed in his car. What you're forgetting is that woman was also grown enough to know better to not go and try to assault Jericho. If she's willing to be man enough to throw punches, she should be man enough to take the retaliation. There is a huge difference between self defense and retaliation. Self defense is using just enough force to disable your attacker and get to safety. So if someone slaps you and you respond by beating them senseless, then you would be the one at fault because you used more force than necessary. There is a huge difference between "beating them senseless" and "throwing one punch at them after the third time they have attacked you, the most recent being a hard shove that knocked you head-first into your doorframe". Bullies can be smaller than the person they're bullying. In this case, it seems she was hiding behind both her gender and her status as a fan. Repeated provocation resulted in Jericho using the amount of force needed to quickly end the issue. He was perfectly justified in doing so, and I applaud him for handling a difficult and violent mob when security would not, using the minimum amount of force necessary. If that support makes me a misogynist in the eyes of an anti-male chauvinist, I'll cope.
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Post by Widow's Peak on Feb 10, 2009 11:14:21 GMT -5
It's amazing that people keep forgetting this. Yes, he was provoked. Yes, security sucked. But the whole thing could have been avoided if he'd have just stayed in his car. There is a huge difference between self defense and retaliation. Self defense is using just enough force to disable your attacker and get to safety. So if someone slaps you and you respond by beating them senseless, then you would be the one at fault because you used more force than necessary. There is a huge difference between "beating them senseless" and "throwing one punch at them after the third time they have attacked you, the most recent being a hard shove that knocked you head-first into your doorframe". Of course there is. I was just trying to make a point that from a legal standpoint, the force you use to defend yourself has to be appropriate for the circumstance. Its obvious that he was attacked and provoked in this case, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he will be immune from legal responsibility if a prosecutor decides that he used more force than necessary to subdue his attacker. Believe me, if I were a man-hating chauvinist, I probably wouldn't be posting on this board. If anyone, man or woman, is putting your life in danger, you have a legal right to defend yourself. However, you should take any steps you can to escape from the situation before it gets to that point because you could still be held legally accountable for your actions even if you believe you were in the right. In Jericho's case, he should have known better than to try to confront a hostile crowd. Fair or not, there is a special set of rules for "celebrities", and especially in the age of TMZ there are certain people who will do anything to provoke you into a lawsuit worthy reaction. Retaliating physically against asshat fans just plays right into their hands.
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Feb 10, 2009 11:46:53 GMT -5
I **partially** agree with the "Jericho should have stayed in the car" argument.
However, we do not see everything that was going on in those shaky cell-phone videos, which only started recording several minutes after the incident started. We do not know with certainty if something happened which warranted him leaving the car. We do not know if a fan threatened to break in, or if a security guard asked him to step out, or whatever. I could think of any number of reasons that could have caused Jericho to exit the car. However, if there was no reason for him to exit the car, then I agree he should have stayed put. But none of us know one way or the other if there was sufficient reason for him to step out.
I was raised with a mentality that mixes "modern" with "old school". I believe that a man should not intentionally strike a woman under almost any circumstances, especially if the woman in question poses little to no physical threat. However, once the woman escalates the violence to the point that the woman in this video did, then she deserves whatever consequences come with those actions -- right up to and including getting floored.
That being said, man-on-woman violence is a very serious issue, and the mentality of some of the posters on this board is somewhat disturbing. Last night's RAW thread was nicknamed "Jericho smackin' a ho!". Others have things in their sig like "Is Jericho gonna have to punch a bitch?" Stuff like that.
I understand the desire to make jokes about the situation, but IMO, those kind of jokes are tasteless and degrading to real victims of things like domestic violence. I hope the mods take a look at some of the sigs and seriously consider whether some of them should or shouldn't be allowed. There's a crapton of jokes that can be made about the whole situation without resorting to things that are borderline offensive.
Just my thoughts.
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Post by Doctor Tull-eus S. Venture on Feb 10, 2009 11:47:32 GMT -5
Bless you, Sean Carless.
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Feb 10, 2009 11:50:53 GMT -5
Bless you, Sean Carless. [/b][/size] (I have that movie on DVD, and think it's incredibly underrated.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2009 12:26:36 GMT -5
That being said, man-on-woman violence is a very serious issue . To you. To others, 'violence' is the serious issue, and they see no value in thinking of it as 'worse' than, say, woman-on-man violence. If Chris Jericho were fresh off of a conviction of domestic assault, you would have a perfectly valid point. On the other hand, he is fresh off of famously snapping at a woman who constantly assaulted him as part of an angry mob, thinking that her gender and her status as a fan would protect her from the reprisal you or I would have gotten. Even you stated that the woman should have been floored for what she did, after all. People are not joking about Jericho beating his wife. People are joking about Jericho standing up to a bully. Who happened to be a woman, but as has been said by many, her gender should not be a free pass to repeatedly physically assault a wrestler, going as far as to ram him head-first into a car door. IMO, even implicitly defining 'domestic violence' to be strictly equivalent to 'man-on-woman violence' (such as you are doing) is degrading to many real victims of things like domestic violence as well. Which is somewhat ironic -- after all, we're joking about a situation that was almost entirely woman-on-man violence, aren't we? On the grand scheme of 'latent misogyny on Wrestlecrap', cheering for Jericho for standing up to a bully is a "0" and the 15,000,000th iteration of "Who Would You Snork First?" polls is a "10". So these sigs should be pretty low on the list of "what which needs fixing". But that, too, is just my opinion.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Feb 10, 2009 12:32:55 GMT -5
Credit: Bill Behrens According to several WWE superstars that were at the house show in Victoria, there was a mob of fans that were not only going after Chris Jericho but other wrestlers as well. This group of fans were apparently surrounding the cars of wrestlers as they were trying to leave the arena. The fans would start pounding their fists on the cars and security wasn't doing much of anything. One wrestler said: "never leave the car... that was the mistake Jericho made." It's amazing that people keep forgetting this. Yes, he was provoked. Yes, security sucked. But the whole thing could have been avoided if he'd have just stayed in his car. What you're forgetting is that woman was also grown enough to know better to not go and try to assault Jericho. If she's willing to be man enough to throw punches, she should be man enough to take the retaliation. There is a huge difference between self defense and retaliation. Self defense is using just enough force to disable your attacker and get to safety. So if someone slaps you and you respond by beating them senseless, then you would be the one at fault because you used more force than necessary. That's quite true, except Jericho didn't beat her senseless, if he did, then maybe I'd agree.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2009 12:37:30 GMT -5
That's quite true, except Jericho didn't beat her senseless, if he did, then maybe I'd agree. This is the point right here. It's not like he then jumped off his car roof and nailed her with a Lionsault. Enough force to put the fan back in their place, and that was that.
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Ace Baretta
Unicron
WE ARE NASHVILLE (May 1, 2010)
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Post by Ace Baretta on Feb 10, 2009 13:05:17 GMT -5
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Post by Widow's Peak on Feb 10, 2009 13:07:13 GMT -5
It's amazing that people keep forgetting this. Yes, he was provoked. Yes, security sucked. But the whole thing could have been avoided if he'd have just stayed in his car. There is a huge difference between self defense and retaliation. Self defense is using just enough force to disable your attacker and get to safety. So if someone slaps you and you respond by beating them senseless, then you would be the one at fault because you used more force than necessary. That's quite true, except Jericho didn't beat her senseless, if he did, then maybe I'd agree. And as I said before, I'm not saying that he did beat her senseless. That was just an example of a physical reaction that was not an appropriate use of physical force. The point I was trying to make was that a person has to be very careful once they are in that situation because they could still be at fault if they overreact to the threat they are under. Granted, you never know how you will react unless you are in that situation yourself, but the law is still the law.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Feb 10, 2009 13:09:29 GMT -5
That's quite true, except Jericho didn't beat her senseless, if he did, then maybe I'd agree. And as I said before, I'm not saying that he did beat her senseless. That was just an example of a physical reaction that was not an appropriate use of physical force. The point I was trying to make was that a person has to be very careful once they are in that situation because they could still be at fault if they overreact to the threat they are under. Granted, you never know how you will react unless you are in that situation yourself, but the law is still the law. He's in a situation surrounded by very hostile fans, he doesn't have time to figure out who's going to just give him a lovetap or punch his lights out, he's just defending himself. As for that article, if it was a work wouldn't WWE have played up to it last night?
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Post by Widow's Peak on Feb 10, 2009 13:22:13 GMT -5
And as I said before, I'm not saying that he did beat her senseless. That was just an example of a physical reaction that was not an appropriate use of physical force. The point I was trying to make was that a person has to be very careful once they are in that situation because they could still be at fault if they overreact to the threat they are under. Granted, you never know how you will react unless you are in that situation yourself, but the law is still the law. He's in a situation surrounded by very hostile fans, he doesn't have time to figure out who's going to just give him a lovetap or punch his lights out, he's just defending himself. Which he could have avoided by staying in his car. The fans are still hostile, possibly intoxicated morons who frankly aren't worthy of sympathy, but that doesn't completely absolve Jericho of any responsibility. I'm not trying to make excuses for the fans or to bash Jericho. I'm not even saying that I would have reacted differently in this situation. I'm just making the point that he didn't behave in the most responsible manner possible and that he deserves some of the blame here. Just because someone's actions are "understandable" it doesn't mean that they are "correct". Yeah. Some things are just so bizarre, they can't possibly be made up.
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