Vince McMahon's reason for going PG

[Jay Peas 42]

I agree, it's entirely possible to appeal to both kids and adults on a PG level, see Star Wars, or Justice Leauge Unlimited. Except for the Hawkgirl's dress comment.

[Krimzon]

Sophisticated? Leprechauns, Cow Chavo, JBL is Poopy, Vince Loves Cocks, pervy King...Sophisticated!?

[Ben Wyatt]

Oct 10, 2009 13:29:09 GMT -5 Drillbit Taylor said:

Im happy with the current stuff. Way better then Attitude raunch.

[Tombi]

Oct 10, 2009 14:16:44 GMT -5 Krimzon said:

Sophisticated? Leprechauns, Cow Chavo, JBL is Poopy, Vince Loves Cocks, pervy King...Sophisticated!?

Actually, "JBL is poopy" was satire; aimed in particular at the idea that the insults on the show would go to that level with the brand new ratings change; so it's at least fairly sophisticated compared to others. Mind you, looking back at it some of the stuff they've put on Raw as of late has completely diminished the novelty it had at the time, so yeah.

And "Vince Loves Cocks" was in 2006, the same year; may I remind you - that featured a "live sex celebration" live on Raw - so obviously far, far away from the PG rating. Not that I don't agree, you could have just picked better examples.

Oct 10, 2009 14:20:13 GMT -5 Ben Wyatt said:

Oct 10, 2009 13:29:09 GMT -5 Drillbit Taylor said:

Im happy with the current stuff. Way better then Attitude raunch.

I'd say this for every show except Raw, which really has been taking a bit too far in one direction for my liking. Not that they can't have good weeks, because they can - it's just blatantly obvious the people in charge have no clue what actual direction to take it in.

That said, I'll glady take whatever's on Raw next week over some sort of "match" with Sable or Jackie where they just so happen to lose some clothing week after week.

[MyndSkape: A Poor Man's Virgil]

I still don't understand why they're "PG", yet DX keeps wearing those "World's Largest Member" shirts since they came back.

[RBD]

Oct 10, 2009 13:03:41 GMT -5 baerrtt said:

Oct 10, 2009 11:40:52 GMT -5 RBD said:

Sophisticated? My brain hurts.

They still do dumb stuff but the Attitude era was hardly more 'sophisticated' was it? Chris Jericho's heel promos last year and Cm Punk's heel promos this year for example are far more serious in nature and to the point than the bad language 'I'm going to kick you're ass' stuff we got 10 years ago from both faces and heels.

The excuse of 'edgy' led to segments such as Mae Young giving birth to a hand, HLA and the increasingly uncomfortable and dubious spectacle of people marking for women being beaten up in the ring by the male wrestlers.

Oct 10, 2009 13:36:54 GMT -5 Hulk With A Mustache said:

Yes. Because nothing says sophisticated like a man in a cow suit wrestling a midget dressed as a cowboy. In fact, I think that was the plot of a Wagner opera.

That was the idea I was going for, but couldn't be bothered to type any more on the subject at the time.

You might actually notice that I didn't bring up the Attitude Era at all and wouldn't have here without you bringing it into discussion. I never claimed or insinuated that the Attitude Era content was sophisticated. There are a lot of things I enjoy about that timeframe but I wouldn't say that sophistication is one of its shining beacons of merit.

Just to say, I agree with those that say a good show has little to do with the rating. I believe it was The Solomonster who said in his show the classic Smackdown's were rated PG and they were great stuff. The problem is the writing and the mentality behind it. It's not that the content is kid-friendly and all inclusive family fun these days, the product the aimed at kids, and they seem to be dumbing down and simplifying everything because of that, which is what makes their claims of sophistication so ludicrious. That and crap like Hornswoggle and Chavo. And the stuff they feed the commentary team on Raw. And the usually awful and cheese-tastic guest hosts. How is that more sophisticated than a genuine athletic contest like UFC or other MMA? Or, since they see themselves as entertainment, any other TV show of which I can't think of any who seem to have less concern and respect for their plots and characters (I accept that nothing on TV works exactly like wrestling, but still).

I would love the product to become more sophisticated.

[Deleted]

Ugh. The rating makes no real difference anyway, so who cares?

[Deleted]

Oct 10, 2009 13:29:09 GMT -5 Drillbit Taylor said:

Im happy with the current stuff. Way better then Attitude raunch.

[Lancers]

The WWE was PG in as late as 1998/99 if I recall. The rating is irrelevant. It's the product itself that should be questioned. I don't find anything the WWE is doing appealing to me personally. That's why I don't watch it.

I mentioned this point before. The last WWE show I went to was the last Cyber Sunday PPV (I took my mother who raised me a WWF fan in the late 80s) and we were surrounded by children. It was real awkward to think I'm trying to enjoy something that is currently being enjoyed by people who find Spongebob Squarepants to be intellectually deep.

I'm not mad at Vince or anyone for the change in their tone. It's his product. It's his money. It's his business. If he can sell out arena, gain big buyrates relying on parents' expendable income, then so be it. Now I know the argument is that buyrates are down as our ratings, but the question could be asked, would they actually be better if they were going down the same road three years ago?


Penis.

[The Ichi]

How can people say that the rating has no effect on the product WHEN THEY BOOK A HELL IN A CELL PPV THAT IS REALLY JUST A CARD OF NORMAL MATCHES THAT HAPPEN TO BE INSIDE A CELL??? *takes a deep breath* That's clearly the product being effected by a watered down rating.

[Lance Uppercut]

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheBarney

Sometimes there is an entity that by its very nature is meant to appeal only to a certain, if possibly narrow, demographic. It's reasonable to assume that people who do not fall within that demographic group would simply ignore it, right? Ha ha. WRONG!!!
The Barney is a character which receives undue scorn and hatred from groups that it was never meant to appeal to in the first place. It inspires an anti-Periphery Demographic, who respond to them in such a way that you'd think they had committed some unspeakable crime. Expect a complete lack of Parental Bonus, a Fleeting Demographic, and a ton of Geocities (RIP) pages decrying its "crimes". Consider the contradictions in the phrase "hated teen idol."

-----

This applies both to wrestling fans and outsider's views on wrestling.

I'm sorry but it's not for you anymore. Most of us grew up watching it as a kid, now that it's aimed at a new direction of kids and you've grown out of it, you're mad at it.

Seriously, people ask things like "is it wrong I don't like it anymore" or "why are recyclying thing?". Because it's not expected that a a person would stay following a program for 20 years (nonstop mind you) and not get bored of it, or the writers would run out of ideas.

Look at the Simpsons, it's nothing like how it originally was. It was humourous family satire. Now it's just zany, and almost looney tunes. The fans either left, kept watching and complaining, or learned to live with it while admitting it's not the same as it used to be.

[The Ichi]

Oct 10, 2009 14:53:51 GMT -5 Lance Uppercut said:

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheBarney

Sometimes there is an entity that by its very nature is meant to appeal only to a certain, if possibly narrow, demographic. It's reasonable to assume that people who do not fall within that demographic group would simply ignore it, right? Ha ha. WRONG!!!
The Barney is a character which receives undue scorn and hatred from groups that it was never meant to appeal to in the first place. It inspires an anti-Periphery Demographic, who respond to them in such a way that you'd think they had committed some unspeakable crime. Expect a complete lack of Parental Bonus, a Fleeting Demographic, and a ton of Geocities (RIP) pages decrying its "crimes". Consider the contradictions in the phrase "hated teen idol."

-----

This applies both to wrestling fans and outsider's views on wrestling.

I'm sorry but it's not for you anymore. Most of us grew up watching it as a kid, now that it's aimed at a new direction of kids and you've grown out of it, you're mad at it.

Seriously, people ask things like "is it wrong I don't like it anymore" or "why are recyclying thing?". Because it's not expected that a a person would stay following a program for 20 years (nonstop mind you) and not get bored of it, or the writers would run out of ideas.

Look at the Simpsons, it's nothing like how it originally was. It was humourous family satire. Now it's just zany, and almost looney tunes. The fans either left, kept watching and complaining, or learned to live with it while admitting it's not the same as it used to be.

I can't agree with this. If Vince was smart, he would try to appeal to all the fanbases, not just one set one.

[Magician under the moonlight]

Oct 10, 2009 11:00:34 GMT -5 azz0r said:

Search for Vince on there site, its a real article, it pissed me off that wrestlingnewz reported it and didnt link back, I clicked the contact us button to bitch but it didnt work.

Heres the thing, they've gone PG and they're still selling out arenas, so Vince isn't wrong. Its just putting us older hardcore fans into a bitch state.

Seat fillers are your friends.

[Lancers]

Oct 10, 2009 14:51:34 GMT -5 The Ichi said:

How can people say that the rating has no effect on the product WHEN THEY BOOK A HELL IN A CELL PPV THAT IS REALLY JUST A CARD OF NORMAL MATCHES THAT HAPPEN TO BE INSIDE A CELL??? *takes a deep breath* That's clearly the product being effected by a watered down rating.

No it's not. The WWE was TV-PG back in 1997 around the time DX was introduced, Steve Austin was saying 'ass' left and right, Jerry Lawler was creaming his pants over Debra McMichael's funbags and the first ever HIAC match between HBK and Taker.

In other words, they were doing risky things before going TV-14. Nowadays, they are going in the opposite direction demographic-wise yet both the product in 1997 and the product in 2009 have the same rating.

[The Ichi]

So the writers have just gone retarded then. Gotcha.

[Lancers]

Well I can't really blame the writers per se if they're being told by the higher-ups to keep the programming kid-friendly. It's a very tough thing to accomplish when you consider the concept of pro wrestling itself isn't necessarily kid-friendly.

[metylerca]

Oct 10, 2009 15:07:45 GMT -5 The Ichi said:

So the writers have just gone retarded then. Gotcha.

Subjective.

I don't see it that way. Just because it's not the way you like it doesn't necessarily make it retarded for the rest of us.

I think the show is just boring. I don't find it actively offensive as many others do. But at the same time, I am never really enthralled with what's going on.

[spagett]

Everyone is perfectly entitled to their opinion and I don't think my opinions are better than anyone elses but I honestly find it incredible that some find todays WWE better than the Attitude Era.

If you disliked the raunchy stuff from back then fair enough but the writing, the wrestlers themselves and the aura around Wrestling was so much better back then.

I have no problem with things being PG. It is quite frankly the terrible writing and stench of staleness within the WWE that I have a problem with

[Real Folk Bruce]

To me, the only wrestling that could be considered even remotely sophisticated would be Baba-era AJPW.

WWE should never focus on being "kid-oriented", instead they should try being "family-oriented". Give the adults a reason watch as well as the kids, after all who else buys the tickets and pays for the ppvs?

In my family, everyone from the kids to the parents to the grandparents had a favorite to watch for, so it wasn't as if the kids were forcing their parents to watch, they wanted to watch it as much as they did. This is what I truly love about wrestling. Anyone from any age group can watch it, from the single-digit crowd that thinks it's real to the older crowd who learned to appreciate the wrestlers craft.

Another example of wrestling shows that appealed to a wide range of viewers would be All Japan and New Japan Pro Wrestling. They had enough colorful characters to appeal to the youngsters yet they delivered enough solid wrestling action and great feuds to draw in the aficionados. By playing to both of wrestlings biggest audiences (Kids and wrestling enthusiasts), both crowds came home happy and neither group felt alienated. How I miss the days when wrestling had broad range appeal.


Unfortunately for Vince and co., many of those older fans that he couldn't risk to alienate have either left him for good or they're watching UFC or other MMA groups and from the looks of things many of them won't be coming back. Despite what Vince thinks, wrestling NEEDS older fans. Those ppvs,dvds, and event tickets don't buy themselves.

[Thrillho]

Thrillho's reason for going PG:

Why not? No matter what, WWE is always going to be HUGE with kids, now if they offer a product that parents will let their kids watch, merch sales will go up.

I got into wrestling slap bang in the middle of the Attitude era, and my mum wouldn't let me watch it. I used to have to tape the midnight showing of Heat and then watch the show the next Saturday morning with the volume right down when my mum was having a lie in.

Now, considering I couldn't watch it, how many WWE t-shirts, posters, figures, or video games do you think I had? 0.

My friends who were allowed to watch it, however, had everything, looking back, their parents must have easily spent hundreds, in a couple of cases, a thousand or more pounds on WWE merchandise.

Now, say 50% of children during the Attitude era weren't allowed to watch the show. With the PG rating, that probably cuts to a very small minority.

Revenue goes up, up, up, and up.

The show's nearly the same anyway, just with less blood and more clothing.