Vince McMahon's reason for going PG

[Paco]

I understand. You gotta go where the money is. Kids' stuff is ruling Film & TV.
The world (and the WWE) has moved on from the late '90's.
Limp Bizkit, "Raunchy" South Park, Jerry Springer & "Attitude" have been replaced by teen Vampires, Miley Cyrus, "Social-Commentary" South Park & Kid Friendly.

The WWF was kid friendly before 1997 and we liked it! Blame the writing for the shittiness, not the rating.

[dh03grad]

Oct 10, 2009 11:00:34 GMT -5 azz0r said:

Search for Vince on there site, its a real article, it pissed me off that wrestlingnewz reported it and didnt link back, I clicked the contact us button to bitch but it didnt work.

Heres the thing, they've gone PG and they're still selling out arenas, so Vince isn't wrong. Its just putting us older hardcore fans into a bitch state.

cyber sunday 2007 194k 2008 153k
survivor series 2007 341k 2008 319k
armageddon 2007 237k 2008 193k
rumble 2008 533k 2009 450k
no way out 2008 329k 2009 272k
WM 2008 1.05m 2009 960k
backlash 2008 200k 2009 182k
judgment day 2008 252k 2009 228k
extreme rules 2008 194k 2009 213k
NOC 2008 273k 2009 259k
the bash 2008 196k 2009 178k
summerslam 2008 477k 2009 375k

Theres a pattern, and I would be stunned if Breaking Point and Hell in a Cell did any better than The Bash did.

[dh03grad]

Oct 10, 2009 16:47:55 GMT -5 Paco said:

I understand. You gotta go where the money is. Kids' stuff is ruling Film & TV.
The world (and the WWE) has moved on from the late '90's.
Limp Bizkit, "Raunchy" South Park, Jerry Springer & "Attitude" have been replaced by teen Vampires, Miley Cyrus, "Social-Commentary" South Park & Kid Friendly.

The WWF was kid friendly before 1997 and we liked it! Blame the writing for the s***tiness, not the rating.

I understand that totally. The difference between today and pre 1997 is that WWE television programming is built around the pay per view that is coming in a few weeks. No matter what day it is, a PPV is coming up and everything is tilted towards it. As a result, there is no buildup time to gain an emotional connection to the matchip. With 14 PPVs, that runs contradictory to running a program catering to kids. Or even a program catering to famlies. The only people that will buy 14 WWE PPVs, or even half of such, are diehard fans with money to burn that enjoys the PPVs themselves. To think that parents will buy that many PPVs for their children is outright delusional. They are much more likely to take their children to WWE's yearly stop in their town, though. But, Vince hasnt built his television to sell live event tickets in 15 years. Vince has to pick a direction and stop doing things half ass and expect acceptance.

[metylerca]

Oct 10, 2009 16:50:34 GMT -5 dh03grad said:

Oct 10, 2009 11:00:34 GMT -5 azz0r said:

Search for Vince on there site, its a real article, it pissed me off that wrestlingnewz reported it and didnt link back, I clicked the contact us button to bitch but it didnt work.

Heres the thing, they've gone PG and they're still selling out arenas, so Vince isn't wrong. Its just putting us older hardcore fans into a bitch state.

cyber sunday 2007 194k 2008 153k
survivor series 2007 341k 2008 319k
armageddon 2007 237k 2008 193k
rumble 2008 533k 2009 450k
no way out 2008 329k 2009 272k
WM 2008 1.05m 2009 960k
backlash 2008 200k 2009 182k
judgment day 2008 252k 2009 228k
extreme rules 2008 194k 2009 213k
NOC 2008 273k 2009 259k
the bash 2008 196k 2009 178k
summerslam 2008 477k 2009 375k

Theres a pattern, and I would be stunned if Breaking Point and Hell in a Cell did any better than The Bash did.

There's plenty of other factors that can be used to explain the drop, such as the economic recession going on in America. If people don't have the money to spend on it, then they don't have the money to watch it.

[Phil Parent]

I don't buy the South Park reference though. Seen the last episode? Pretty Raunchy in spots. Broflovskis having sex. Doctor falling off the hospital room and splattering on the floor. Little girl beauty pageants judge jacking off to the little girls, etc...

I do agree things have gotten tamer in general culture though. High School Musical and American Idol has created a generation of idealistic, elitist dreamers.

[Krimzon]

By all means of logic, SummerSlam dropping more than 100,000 buys from 2008 SHOULD slap them in the face and wake them up. The economy was crap in 08 and it still is. Can't blame that. Only thing to blame is the horrific programming.

I understand that it's marketed to kids, but even kids have to be somewhat confused and insulted by some of this. In this day and age, kids are more aware of the world than they have ever been. Childhood is getting shorter and shorter with every generation. Even kids have to feel like their intelligence is getting, not insulted, but bitch-slapped by the WWE at times. They are catering to kids, but apparently, they have failed to realize that kids are very different now than they were in the 80s & 90s. With everything that is on TV and the Internet nowadays, how can they think that this garbage will get over? The ratings & buyrates should tell them that it's not.

They should NEVER take what the live crowd says as gospel. Just because they cheer a leprechaun doesn't mean that the people watching at home are going to tolerate it when there are better things to watch. The Internet has made wrestling, most of it better wrestling, from all over the world accessable in a few clicks. People that actually have the money, and are true wrestling fans, aren't going to bother with Diva Bowls, Orton vs. HHH/Cena XIV, or unfunny midget shenanigans when they can get a better product online.

The WWE HAVE to realize that they need to step up their game before casuals start realizing that they aren't necessarily the best show in town. I do agree that the PG rating isn't the problem. It's what they actually pass off as "new" & "exciting" that has to go. I can't tell you the last time I was excited to see WWE TV. I'm glad SvR 2010 is going to have a story designer. That's where you'll start seeing the good stuff that it's becoming painfully obvious that we'll never get on WWE TV.

Rant over.

[Phil Parent]

Marketing a product to kids when...your main TV shows are in primetime when the PARENTS watch TV is a reciepe for disaster. Primetime is for the 16-55 demographic. Not kids.

[dh03grad]

Oct 10, 2009 17:08:07 GMT -5 metylerca said:

Oct 10, 2009 16:50:34 GMT -5 dh03grad said:

cyber sunday 2007 194k 2008 153k
survivor series 2007 341k 2008 319k
armageddon 2007 237k 2008 193k
rumble 2008 533k 2009 450k
no way out 2008 329k 2009 272k
WM 2008 1.05m 2009 960k
backlash 2008 200k 2009 182k
judgment day 2008 252k 2009 228k
extreme rules 2008 194k 2009 213k
NOC 2008 273k 2009 259k
the bash 2008 196k 2009 178k
summerslam 2008 477k 2009 375k

Theres a pattern, and I would be stunned if Breaking Point and Hell in a Cell did any better than The Bash did.

There's plenty of other factors that can be used to explain the drop, such as the economic recession going on in America. If people don't have the money to spend on it, then they don't have the money to watch it.

The economy has been struggling. It wasnt sunshine and lollipops pre late 08. UFC PPVs are getting 500k a pop this year. If its the recession to blame, that more of a reason to consider UFC a direct and serious competitor to WWE's business.

[darthpipes]

Yeah, Vince listens to his audience...only when he has the competition breathing down his neck. I doubt anyone was calling for PG wrestling...just for a good product.

Sophisticated? I'm a long-time wrestling fan but even I can tell you that wrestling has never been sophisticated. Having the audience yell out "suck it!" instead of DX is not sophisticated.

[metylerca]

Oct 10, 2009 17:09:25 GMT -5 Krimzon said:

By all means of logic, SummerSlam dropping more than 100,000 buys from 2008 SHOULD slap them in the face and wake them up. The economy was crap in 08 and it still is. Can't blame that. Only thing to blame is the horrific programming.

I understand that it's marketed to kids, but even kids have to be somewhat confused and insulted by some of this. In this day and age, kids are more aware of the world than they have ever been. Childhood is getting shorter and shorter with every generation. Even kids have to feel like their intelligence is getting, not insulted, but bitch-slapped by the WWE at times. They are catering to kids, but apparently, they have failed to realize that kids are very different now than they were in the 80s & 90s. With everything that is on TV and the Internet nowadays, how can they think that this garbage will get over? The ratings & buyrates should tell them that it's not.

They should NEVER take what the live crowd says as gospel. Just because they cheer a leprechaun doesn't mean that the people watching at home are going to tolerate it when there are better things to watch. The Internet has made wrestling, most of it better wrestling, from all over the world accessable in a few clicks. People that actually have the money, and are true wrestling fans, aren't going to bother with Diva Bowls, Orton vs. HHH/Cena XIV, or unfunny midget shenanigans when they can get a better product online.

The WWE HAVE to realize that they need to step up their game before casuals start realizing that they aren't necessarily the best show in town. I do agree that the PG rating isn't the problem. It's what they actually pass off as "new" & "exciting" that has to go. I can't tell you the last time I was excited to see WWE TV. I'm glad SvR 2010 is going to have a story designer. That's where you'll start seeing the good stuff that it's becoming painfully obvious that we'll never get on WWE TV.

Rant over.

Moral of the story: cater to the IWC?

[Krimzon]

Oct 10, 2009 17:42:50 GMT -5 metylerca said:

Oct 10, 2009 17:09:25 GMT -5 Krimzon said:

By all means of logic, SummerSlam dropping more than 100,000 buys from 2008 SHOULD slap them in the face and wake them up. The economy was crap in 08 and it still is. Can't blame that. Only thing to blame is the horrific programming.

I understand that it's marketed to kids, but even kids have to be somewhat confused and insulted by some of this. In this day and age, kids are more aware of the world than they have ever been. Childhood is getting shorter and shorter with every generation. Even kids have to feel like their intelligence is getting, not insulted, but bitch-slapped by the WWE at times. They are catering to kids, but apparently, they have failed to realize that kids are very different now than they were in the 80s & 90s. With everything that is on TV and the Internet nowadays, how can they think that this garbage will get over? The ratings & buyrates should tell them that it's not.

They should NEVER take what the live crowd says as gospel. Just because they cheer a leprechaun doesn't mean that the people watching at home are going to tolerate it when there are better things to watch. The Internet has made wrestling, most of it better wrestling, from all over the world accessable in a few clicks. People that actually have the money, and are true wrestling fans, aren't going to bother with Diva Bowls, Orton vs. HHH/Cena XIV, or unfunny midget shenanigans when they can get a better product online.

The WWE HAVE to realize that they need to step up their game before casuals start realizing that they aren't necessarily the best show in town. I do agree that the PG rating isn't the problem. It's what they actually pass off as "new" & "exciting" that has to go. I can't tell you the last time I was excited to see WWE TV. I'm glad SvR 2010 is going to have a story designer. That's where you'll start seeing the good stuff that it's becoming painfully obvious that we'll never get on WWE TV.

Rant over.

Moral of the story: cater to the IWC?

The moral is: KIDS DON'T HAVE MONEY! Cater to the people that do.

[Thrillho]

Oct 10, 2009 17:48:31 GMT -5 Krimzon said:

Oct 10, 2009 17:42:50 GMT -5 metylerca said:

Moral of the story: cater to the IWC?

The moral is: KIDS DON'T HAVE MONEY! Cater to the people that do.

Yes, but as I said on the last page, the kids want the merch, the parents have the money to buy it. Make the show more parent friendly, and you'll get a hell of a lot more merch sold.

[metylerca]

Oct 10, 2009 17:48:31 GMT -5 Krimzon said:

Oct 10, 2009 17:42:50 GMT -5 metylerca said:

Moral of the story: cater to the IWC?

The moral is: KIDS DON'T HAVE MONEY! Cater to the people that do.

Ok, but you say that after mentioning how the IWC made wrestling. And just because kids don't have money doesn't mean that their parents have no money either. When I was young we'd order every single PPV, and my mom would never watch the shows with us ('us' being me and my brothers). But we still would watch every RAW, every episode of Livewire, every Superstars etc...

By your logic, WWE should have never tried to cater to us, and wrestling should be catered to older people, despite it being a guilty pleasure for people around the ages of 18 thru 35 or so to watch it in the first place because the vast majority of people and the media perceive wrestling as cartoony and fake.

So apparently the only way to change the unchangeable (and I do mean unchangeable) viewpoint of wrestling being fake and for kids is to revert to the writing style of the Attitude Era, which while fun, is seen through rose colored glasses by many online as the best time to be a wrestling fan in history. Coincidentally, many of these same people were children in the same time period, so surely there's no nostalgia speaking there.

Have you ever met someone with kids above the age of 30 or 35 who has a life and has time to sit home at night, watch RAW. Hate RAW, and go on the internet to complain? I'm sure Vince sees the current period as a way to get kids hooked on wrestling, much like in the 80's, and then mature the show a bit again, much like in the 90's. It's cylical, and I don't see how people don't understand that.

The Attitude Era was the best period in terms of consistent ratings, but remember the New Generation before it garnered horrible numbers. Just remember, Rome wasn't built in a day.

[Jiren]

It's not the rating that bothers me, It's the fact that it's SO dull.

I can see why people hate the Attitude era but at least it was entertaining.

The Main Event back then had Austin, Rock, HHH, Taker, Foley, Jericho, Benoit, Angle so it felt fresh every now and then.

[Rorschach]

Oct 10, 2009 17:16:05 GMT -5 Phil Parent said:

Marketing a product to kids when...your main TV shows are in primetime when the PARENTS watch TV is a reciepe for disaster. Primetime is for the 16-55 demographic. Not kids.

I've been saying this for a while now. Since it IS TV-PG, move RAW earlier. No reason on earth that it needs to be on at 9 at night anymore. No foul language, no scantily clad women, and no obscene gestures, unless you count DX...no blood...no REASON to be on at an hour when the "edgy" stuff is supposed to come back.

Fun question: How in the hell is Edge the Rated R superstar in a PG company?

I'd mark if when he came back, his mission was to make RAW, well, raw again.

[dh03grad]

Oct 10, 2009 18:04:35 GMT -5 metylerca said:

Oct 10, 2009 17:48:31 GMT -5 Krimzon said:

The moral is: KIDS DON'T HAVE MONEY! Cater to the people that do.

Ok, but you say that after mentioning how the IWC made wrestling. And just because kids don't have money doesn't mean that their parents have no money either. When I was young we'd order every single PPV, and my mom would never watch the shows with us ('us' being me and my brothers). But we still would watch every RAW, every episode of Livewire, every Superstars etc...

By your logic, WWE should have never tried to cater to us, and wrestling should be catered to older people, despite it being a guilty pleasure for people around the ages of 18 thru 35 or so to watch it in the first place because the vast majority of people and the media perceive wrestling as cartoony and fake.

So apparently the only way to change the unchangeable (and I do mean unchangeable) viewpoint of wrestling being fake and for kids is to revert to the writing style of the Attitude Era, which while fun, is seen through rose colored glasses by many online as the best time to be a wrestling fan in history. Coincidentally, many of these same people were children in the same time period, so surely there's no nostalgia speaking there.

Have you ever met someone with kids above the age of 30 or 35 who has a life and has time to sit home at night, watch RAW. Hate RAW, and go on the internet to complain? I'm sure Vince sees the current period as a way to get kids hooked on wrestling, much like in the 80's, and then mature the show a bit again, much like in the 90's. It's cylical, and I don't see how people don't understand that.

The Attitude Era was the best period in terms of consistent ratings, but remember the New Generation before it garnered horrible numbers. Just remember, Rome wasn't built in a day.

My posts are pointing out to you that you cannot go back to the 1980s. Your parents got every single PPV as a youngster, but there were probably only 4 of them. Todays WWE business model is based on 14 PPVs and TV caters to such. Parents arent buying $570 in WWE PPVs a year for their children. Thats ridiculous to even consider. WWE went to the Attitude Era because culture changed. The kids that watched Saturday morning cartoons grew up. The kids of the 80s weren't the kids of the 90s, so Vince made a shrewd business decision to follow WCW and ECW into the Attitude Era. In the 80s and early 90s, Superstars was the #1 show, with shows like Wrestling Challenge and All American Wrestling as the B shows. All on the weekend mornings. Prime Time Wrestling on Mondays was a clip show. Today, all WWE programming are on weekday nights. To think you can revert things to 80s mentality and combine it with todays ideals is delusional. WWE needs to acknowledge UFC as direct competition. The adult males that quit watching WWE are spending their money somewhere.

[skiller]

That's nice.

But what's his reason for the sub-par writing and booking?

[dh03grad]

Oct 10, 2009 19:51:47 GMT -5 @skiller said:

That's nice.

But what's his reason for the sub-par writing and booking?

He made his unqualified daughter head writer and hired writers on the cheap under her.

[Fade]

Every time people try to defend the PG-Direction, I can't help but to compare it to this:

[spagett]

Oct 10, 2009 19:39:52 GMT -5 dh03grad said:

Oct 10, 2009 18:04:35 GMT -5 metylerca said:

Ok, but you say that after mentioning how the IWC made wrestling. And just because kids don't have money doesn't mean that their parents have no money either. When I was young we'd order every single PPV, and my mom would never watch the shows with us ('us' being me and my brothers). But we still would watch every RAW, every episode of Livewire, every Superstars etc...

By your logic, WWE should have never tried to cater to us, and wrestling should be catered to older people, despite it being a guilty pleasure for people around the ages of 18 thru 35 or so to watch it in the first place because the vast majority of people and the media perceive wrestling as cartoony and fake.

So apparently the only way to change the unchangeable (and I do mean unchangeable) viewpoint of wrestling being fake and for kids is to revert to the writing style of the Attitude Era, which while fun, is seen through rose colored glasses by many online as the best time to be a wrestling fan in history. Coincidentally, many of these same people were children in the same time period, so surely there's no nostalgia speaking there.

Have you ever met someone with kids above the age of 30 or 35 who has a life and has time to sit home at night, watch RAW. Hate RAW, and go on the internet to complain? I'm sure Vince sees the current period as a way to get kids hooked on wrestling, much like in the 80's, and then mature the show a bit again, much like in the 90's. It's cylical, and I don't see how people don't understand that.

The Attitude Era was the best period in terms of consistent ratings, but remember the New Generation before it garnered horrible numbers. Just remember, Rome wasn't built in a day.

My posts are pointing out to you that you cannot go back to the 1980s. Your parents got every single PPV as a youngster, but there were probably only 4 of them. Todays WWE business model is based on 14 PPVs and TV caters to such. Parents arent buying $570 in WWE PPVs a year for their children. Thats ridiculous to even consider. WWE went to the Attitude Era because culture changed. The kids that watched Saturday morning cartoons grew up. The kids of the 80s weren't the kids of the 90s, so Vince made a shrewd business decision to follow WCW and ECW into the Attitude Era. In the 80s and early 90s, Superstars was the #1 show, with shows like Wrestling Challenge and All American Wrestling as the B shows. All on the weekend mornings. Prime Time Wrestling on Mondays was a clip show. Today, all WWE programming are on weekday nights. To think you can revert things to 80s mentality and combine it with todays ideals is delusional. WWE needs to acknowledge UFC as direct competition. The adult males that quit watching WWE are spending their money somewhere.

Exactly.

I don't really buy the idea that Wrestling popularity goes in cycles either because if it did surely we are due to hit another boom considering the last one ended almost 9 years ago.

And in my opinion I think that the WWE is as far away from a boom period as is humanly possible.

The boom doesn't just come around out of nowhere and it won't come back by trying to re-hash the 80's mentality for a while and then trying to re-do the attitude era sometime in the future.

Both the late 80's and late 90's boom period happened because the WWE thought outside the box and radically changed their programming. They didn't sit around content to just muddle on which is what they seem to be doing now.

Vince not considering UFC threat is am pretty sure the same way he never acknowledged that WCW was a threat even when they were getting their arses kicked in 1996-1998. Surely behind the scenes he notices the fact that PPV buyrates are well down and that UFC seem to be doing remarkably well.