Vince McMahon's reason for going PG

[metylerca]

Oct 10, 2009 19:39:52 GMT -5 dh03grad said:

Oct 10, 2009 18:04:35 GMT -5 metylerca said:

Ok, but you say that after mentioning how the IWC made wrestling. And just because kids don't have money doesn't mean that their parents have no money either. When I was young we'd order every single PPV, and my mom would never watch the shows with us ('us' being me and my brothers). But we still would watch every RAW, every episode of Livewire, every Superstars etc...

By your logic, WWE should have never tried to cater to us, and wrestling should be catered to older people, despite it being a guilty pleasure for people around the ages of 18 thru 35 or so to watch it in the first place because the vast majority of people and the media perceive wrestling as cartoony and fake.

So apparently the only way to change the unchangeable (and I do mean unchangeable) viewpoint of wrestling being fake and for kids is to revert to the writing style of the Attitude Era, which while fun, is seen through rose colored glasses by many online as the best time to be a wrestling fan in history. Coincidentally, many of these same people were children in the same time period, so surely there's no nostalgia speaking there.

Have you ever met someone with kids above the age of 30 or 35 who has a life and has time to sit home at night, watch RAW. Hate RAW, and go on the internet to complain? I'm sure Vince sees the current period as a way to get kids hooked on wrestling, much like in the 80's, and then mature the show a bit again, much like in the 90's. It's cylical, and I don't see how people don't understand that.

The Attitude Era was the best period in terms of consistent ratings, but remember the New Generation before it garnered horrible numbers. Just remember, Rome wasn't built in a day.

My posts are pointing out to you that you cannot go back to the 1980s. Your parents got every single PPV as a youngster, but there were probably only 4 of them. Todays WWE business model is based on 14 PPVs and TV caters to such. Parents arent buying $570 in WWE PPVs a year for their children. Thats ridiculous to even consider. WWE went to the Attitude Era because culture changed. The kids that watched Saturday morning cartoons grew up. The kids of the 80s weren't the kids of the 90s, so Vince made a shrewd business decision to follow WCW and ECW into the Attitude Era. In the 80s and early 90s, Superstars was the #1 show, with shows like Wrestling Challenge and All American Wrestling as the B shows. All on the weekend mornings. Prime Time Wrestling on Mondays was a clip show. Today, all WWE programming are on weekday nights. To think you can revert things to 80s mentality and combine it with todays ideals is delusional. WWE needs to acknowledge UFC as direct competition. The adult males that quit watching WWE are spending their money somewhere.

No, there were 12 a year. And my parents bought them for us. I was born in 1990.


And why shouldn't they market to kids? Society has changed. Whether many in the IWC like it or not, wrestling is not 'cool' to mainstream society. They should not try to appease the mainstream people by following their trends. But one thing that did work, no matter what the generation I'd say, is that when the kids of one generation grow up to be teens, they mature the product altogether.

Wrestling's much more different today than it was 20 years ago. Hell it's even a lot more different than only a year ago. It's evolving. And just because the internet hates it doesn't mean everyone else does too. I love when people say the live crowd doesn't mean a thing when they cheer something they dislike. But when the crowd is silent during what they dislike, they all flock to the reasoning that "the live crowd hated it, it must be bad." The same goes for almost anything.

And for someone to say the internet made wrestling.. it's laughable. Most everyone in the business openly hates the internet because they're whiny nerds who complain about everything that happens. They also like to act as though they know the ups and downs of the business despite never actually working for a wrestling promotion. They complain about creative being dumb and stupid, yet they, themselves, have never written a wrestling show in their lives. It's a lot more than just fantasizing about what they'd do with their favorite guys and how they'd bury HHH. There's hours of work to be done, and while Stephanie McMahon is hardly the first choice for a competent writer, they could do a hell of a lot worse like hiring someone off the internet. We'd see CM Punk as the Undisputed Champion and Jamie Noble with a returning Brian Kendrick fighting for the IC title in 20 minute spotfests.

Of course that's exaggerating, but it's not too far from what would happen if the IWC ran wrestling. To Vince, going PG is a business move and while their buyrates are down, they're still making a hell of a lot of money in these trying times. Their merchandise (even for the stale and boring DX, as well as the equally boring and stale John Cena) are flying off the shelves like hotcakes. And while you don't see many of the guys in the audience wearing those t-shirts, if you were to look past their Chris Hero T-shirts and towards the many of kids in attendance proudly sporting their DX t-shirt, you'd see why going PG is paying off. It's not all about putting out the best matches and having storyline continuity. Sure, while those things would be a plus if they could make money off of just that, it's also about entertaining the fans. And trust me, I'm not trying to be condescending here, but the people on the internet who will probably like the product and still watch the PPV's through live streams are still the minority. A very vocal minority, but a minority of the audience nonetheless.

[GaTechGrad]

They went PG the day after Benoit went nuts... I believe that is the real reason.

[slimmy28]

To me, it comes down to so much more than "PG vs. Attitude (R)". PG can be entertaining, but not if it's predictable, stale, and unimaginative.

First off the shows are all very stale and lack the unexpected. This includes the run down for the shows, the commentary, the wrestlers looks/themes/scripted interviews and move sets. If I hear WWE Universe, see another overly tattooed wrestler, another Motorhead theme song and a 4 minute match, I am going to lose it.

Also I think we have to look and realize that a lot of parents aren't going to let their kids watch 5 hours of TV on wrestling alone and spring for $40 in PPV's a month. I mean, who are they kidding.

[Deleted]

Since everyone else is bringing up the Attitude Era, may as well comment on it myself. I started watching in mid-to-late 98, so pretty much during the midst of the Attitude Era, and in truth... Eh, don't see a lot of the hype. I enjoyed it, sure, but I don't pray every day for it to return like a lot of people seem to.

Admittedly, a big part of that probably comes from the fact that as a kid, I absolutely hated Austin, Rock, and Foley. They've all more or less won me over now, but even then I wouldn't mark out for a return run of either of them. Hell, usually when Austin makes his annual cameos I mostly just slump into my chair and wait impatiently for them to get to the next segment.

[dh03grad]

Oct 10, 2009 20:37:32 GMT -5 slimmy28 said:

To me, it comes down to so much more than "PG vs. Attitude (R)". PG can be entertaining, but not if it's predictable, stale, and unimaginative.

First off the shows are all very stale and lack the unexpected. This includes the run down for the shows, the commentary, the wrestlers looks/themes/scripted interviews and move sets. If I hear WWE Universe, see another overly tattooed wrestler, another Motorhead theme song and a 4 minute match, I am going to lose it.

Also I think we have to look and realize that a lot of parents aren't going to let their kids watch 5 hours of TV on wrestling alone and spring for $40 in PPV's a month. I mean, who are they kidding.

Especially when its the same thing. All hyperbole aside, Randy Orton is facing John Cena for the 4th PPV in a row. Too often in the past couple of years they have ran the exact same cards for back to back PPVs. That is a complete ripoff to the fans and inexcusable laziness.

[Brandon Walsh is Insane.]

I don't know... I don't think trying to market to people that grew up with it in the 80s and 90s is the right way to go about business.

Hook them while they're young, I say.

If you get kids into wrestling right now, a few years from now, you'll have a larger audience, as it'll be the "cool" thing to do, just like the Attitude era was in the late 90's, for all the kids that were watching in the 80's.

BTW, I purchase every WWF PPV for my kids, and my parents purchased every single one when I was a kid as well... and I was born in 1980 if that's any consolation.

[Krimzon]

Oct 10, 2009 20:25:33 GMT -5 metylerca said:

No, there were 12 a year. And my parents bought them for us. I was born in 1990.

And why shouldn't they market to kids? Society has changed. Whether many in the IWC like it or not, wrestling is not 'cool' to mainstream society. They should not try to appease the mainstream people by following their trends. But one thing that did work, no matter what the generation I'd say, is that when the kids of one generation grow up to be teens, they mature the product altogether.

Wrestling's much more different today than it was 20 years ago. Hell it's even a lot more different than only a year ago. It's evolving. And just because the internet hates it doesn't mean everyone else does too. I love when people say the live crowd doesn't mean a thing when they cheer something they dislike. But when the crowd is silent during what they dislike, they all flock to the reasoning that "the live crowd hated it, it must be bad." The same goes for almost anything.

And for someone to say the internet made wrestling.. it's laughable. Most everyone in the business openly hates the internet because they're whiny nerds who complain about everything that happens. They also like to act as though they know the ups and downs of the business despite never actually working for a wrestling promotion. They complain about creative being dumb and stupid, yet they, themselves, have never written a wrestling show in their lives. It's a lot more than just fantasizing about what they'd do with their favorite guys and how they'd bury HHH. There's hours of work to be done, and while Stephanie McMahon is hardly the first choice for a competent writer, they could do a hell of a lot worse like hiring someone off the internet. We'd see CM Punk as the Undisputed Champion and Jamie Noble with a returning Brian Kendrick fighting for the IC title in 20 minute spotfests.

Of course that's exaggerating, but it's not too far from what would happen if the IWC ran wrestling. To Vince, going PG is a business move and while their buyrates are down, they're still making a hell of a lot of money in these trying times. Their merchandise (even for the stale and boring DX, as well as the equally boring and stale John Cena) are flying off the shelves like hotcakes. And while you don't see many of the guys in the audience wearing those t-shirts, if you were to look past their Chris Hero T-shirts and towards the many of kids in attendance proudly sporting their DX t-shirt, you'd see why going PG is paying off. It's not all about putting out the best matches and having storyline continuity. Sure, while those things would be a plus if they could make money off of just that, it's also about entertaining the fans. And trust me, I'm not trying to be condescending here, but the people on the internet who will probably like the product and still watch the PPV's through live streams are still the minority. A very vocal minority, but a minority of the audience nonetheless.

Society hasn't changed. What made pro wrestling cool in the 90s is still cool today. The problem is that pro wrestling regressed massively. Wrestling fans left in droves because the product sucked. Back in the day, not just kids, but EVERYBODY had wrestling gear. You'd see "Austin 3:16" & "nWo" shirts everywhere. You couldn't escape it. The Rock's catchphrases were all over the place in mainstream media. Pro wrestling was mainstream and cool. You know what you got in the Attitude Era? Violence, blood, more violence, off-the-wall entertaining characters, great main event talent, & hot women. All of those things still sell on mainstream levels. In football, the violence & markee names sell. In MMA, the violence, blood, talent, & hot ring girls sell. Society didn't change. Pro wrestling did because they simply could not bother to improve their product after WCW went under. Conflict sells. Not just storyline conflict, but the real element of conflict you got between WCW & WWE. When that ended, WWE half-assed it and it showed, driving people away.

Wrestling isn't the same as it was 20 years ago, or even a year ago. However, in the WWE, it sure as hell is. They seem to be doing the same s*** over and over again. At least other wrestling companies are trying to be different and make new stars, with DIFFERENT styles of wrestling. WWE trying to pass off guys like Kofi Kingston & Evan Bourne as "the most exciting" anything is laughable. Sure they are exciting, but only by WWE standards. Outside of the WWE, they'd have to step their game up to even be noticed. If you told me that Evan Bourne was once Matt Sydal on the Indy scene, I'd laugh in your face. He's a shell of his former self in the WWE because of their booking style. It's stale, bland, & boring as anything can be in this business. Want to really show that these guys are "the most exciting," unleash them.

Absolutely nothing would be wrong with CM Punk as Champion with Jamie Noble & Kendrick being strongly featured. They are GREAT talents. If the WWE put some real effort into them, they'd put on great matches & would have great storylines, something else that the WWE is lacking right now. There aren't any real storylines out there.

I honestly don't know if the IWC is that much of a minority anymore. A lot of towns the WWE goes to are "smark" towns, meaning they know what the hell is going on. And with the Internet more available than it ever has been, I'm willing to bet that more people are apart of the IWC than we think. Like you said, members of the IWC will go to shows & watch on TV regardless. I've come across people as young as 12 years old, and probably younger, on Internet wrestling sites. They are often annoying as all hell, but they're here.

Sooner or later, the current crop of youngins are going to grow up and get a little bit wiser. If the WWE prodcut is still the same, they'll be saying exactly what we are now. The WWE can't go back to what worked. They have to find new ways of making new things work. They don't take risks anymore. They do the safe, dependable option and their product suffers because of it.

This may sound crazy, but the WWE's idea of what's good for business is what's killing the product. They are making more money now than they ever have, but at the same time, the product has never been so damn predictable, boring, and flat-out stale.

[Jimmy]

What I don't get about all the 'Attitude' talk is everybody ignoring the 7 years between 01-08 years that weren't exactly 'Attitude' or 'PG' and kinda sucked. The 'Attitude' Era isn't something that can just be replicated.

[Citizen Grimm]

Personally, the only thing I really blame on the current PG era is the no blood rule. Other than that, I can't really pin the blame on the rating.

Personally, I just see some basic flaws in the programming.

1) The lack of powerful characters.

In recent times, the WWE seems to have forgotten that the most important aspect of a wrestler is their character. Back in the Attitude Era you had Austin, The Rock, an edgy HHH, crazy ass Mick Foley, a younger Undertaker, and so on.

Now a days we have Super!Cena (who essentially is a remake of the 1980's Hogan, IMO), a very toned down DX, and the chickens*** heel "Viper" Randy Orton. The problem here is that these characters are simply stale; they need something to freshen them up a little or give them a bit of a darker edge. I'm not talking about anything over the top here but something that older fans can latch onto while younger fans can still enjoy it too.

I mean, just look at what they did to John Morrison when they turned him face. He went from an entertaining heel though while still a little green on the mic to a completely bland and generic face. The only time we really see any bits of his older character are on WWE internet web shows.

2) The amount of PPVs in a year.

There are what, 12 PPVs that the WWE holds every year. That's just too many, plain and simple and I think it affects the writing a lot more than most give it credit for. I don't approve of the writing staff's actions on RAW over the past few months but they do have a problem in making a decently long feud not become repetitive.

Someone said earlier that Cena and Orton are facing one another for the 4th PPV in a row. Well, that's still only a four month long feud, which isn't that long when you think about it. In the past the WWE would have maybe 6 PPVs (I'm guesstimating here) a year and the feuds would seem to be a lot better paced.

I won't even get into the generic new names for most of the PPVs. They tend to speak for themselves.

3) The lack of Main Event wrestlers

This ties in a little bit with my first point. In the past years I feel that the WWE has done very little to try and elevate talent to the main event level. Meanwhile, many of their current ME guys are getting older. Shawn, HHH, and Undertaker are all 40 or over and Batista and Rey's bodies are breaking down so its unsure how long they have left. Plus, there is always rumors of Kane's retirement floating around.

That leaves Edge (when he gets back), Cena, Orton, Jericho, Christian, Big Show (sort of), and Punk. That's 7 guys; and maybe I'm missing some but I doubt I'm missing more than 3. Now that is 7-10 guys to spead across three television shows. In other words, the WWE needs to start elevating talent.

They're doing it with Morrison and are starting to with Miz (I hope) but we need more. Kofi, Swagger, Ziggler, MVP, Mark Henry, Ryder, Bourne...all of these guys should start to be elevated to the upper midcard at the least. They don't all need to be ME guys but some of them need to be.

Kofi is a fun wrestler to watch but he has no character development at all. Swagger, Henry, and MVP are all good but are often lost in the shuffle on RAW, though it has been better recently. Ziggler and Ryder are the closest in my opinion and hopefully they continue to develop. And I see Bourne eventually being the one to replace Rey.

In short, the WWE needs to continued to build young stars and fast because its uncertain how much longer the top guys can go.

...okay, that's it I think. Rant over.

[Yami Daimao]

Really, Vince? You're all about what the fans think?

Is that why during the beginning of the year, when Orton had arguably the biggest momentum in his entire career, you decided to cut off his balls and turn him into your everyday chicken s*** heel just because the fans weren't reacting how you wanted them to?

F*** you.

[metylerca]

Oct 10, 2009 21:19:05 GMT -5 Krimzon said:

Oct 10, 2009 20:25:33 GMT -5 metylerca said:

No, there were 12 a year. And my parents bought them for us. I was born in 1990.

And why shouldn't they market to kids? Society has changed. Whether many in the IWC like it or not, wrestling is not 'cool' to mainstream society. They should not try to appease the mainstream people by following their trends. But one thing that did work, no matter what the generation I'd say, is that when the kids of one generation grow up to be teens, they mature the product altogether.

Wrestling's much more different today than it was 20 years ago. Hell it's even a lot more different than only a year ago. It's evolving. And just because the internet hates it doesn't mean everyone else does too. I love when people say the live crowd doesn't mean a thing when they cheer something they dislike. But when the crowd is silent during what they dislike, they all flock to the reasoning that "the live crowd hated it, it must be bad." The same goes for almost anything.

And for someone to say the internet made wrestling.. it's laughable. Most everyone in the business openly hates the internet because they're whiny nerds who complain about everything that happens. They also like to act as though they know the ups and downs of the business despite never actually working for a wrestling promotion. They complain about creative being dumb and stupid, yet they, themselves, have never written a wrestling show in their lives. It's a lot more than just fantasizing about what they'd do with their favorite guys and how they'd bury HHH. There's hours of work to be done, and while Stephanie McMahon is hardly the first choice for a competent writer, they could do a hell of a lot worse like hiring someone off the internet. We'd see CM Punk as the Undisputed Champion and Jamie Noble with a returning Brian Kendrick fighting for the IC title in 20 minute spotfests.

Of course that's exaggerating, but it's not too far from what would happen if the IWC ran wrestling. To Vince, going PG is a business move and while their buyrates are down, they're still making a hell of a lot of money in these trying times. Their merchandise (even for the stale and boring DX, as well as the equally boring and stale John Cena) are flying off the shelves like hotcakes. And while you don't see many of the guys in the audience wearing those t-shirts, if you were to look past their Chris Hero T-shirts and towards the many of kids in attendance proudly sporting their DX t-shirt, you'd see why going PG is paying off. It's not all about putting out the best matches and having storyline continuity. Sure, while those things would be a plus if they could make money off of just that, it's also about entertaining the fans. And trust me, I'm not trying to be condescending here, but the people on the internet who will probably like the product and still watch the PPV's through live streams are still the minority. A very vocal minority, but a minority of the audience nonetheless.

Society hasn't changed. What made pro wrestling cool in the 90s is still cool today. The problem is that pro wrestling regressed massively. Wrestling fans left in droves because the product sucked. Back in the day, not just kids, but EVERYBODY had wrestling gear. You'd see "Austin 3:16" & "nWo" shirts everywhere. You couldn't escape it. The Rock's catchphrases were all over the place in mainstream media. Pro wrestling was mainstream and cool. You know what you got in the Attitude Era? Violence, blood, more violence, off-the-wall entertaining characters, great main event talent, & hot women. All of those things still sell on mainstream levels. In football, the violence & markee names sell. In MMA, the violence, blood, talent, & hot ring girls sell. Society didn't change. Pro wrestling did because they simply could not bother to improve their product after WCW went under. Conflict sells. Not just storyline conflict, but the real element of conflict you got between WCW & WWE. When that ended, WWE half-assed it and it showed, driving people away.

Wrestling isn't the same as it was 20 years ago, or even a year ago. However, in the WWE, it sure as hell is. They seem to be doing the same s*** over and over again. At least other wrestling companies are trying to be different and make new stars, with DIFFERENT styles of wrestling. WWE trying to pass off guys like Kofi Kingston & Evan Bourne as "the most exciting" anything is laughable. Sure they are exciting, but only by WWE standards. Outside of the WWE, they'd have to step their game up to even be noticed. If you told me that Evan Bourne was once Matt Sydal on the Indy scene, I'd laugh in your face. He's a shell of his former self in the WWE because of their booking style. It's stale, bland, & boring as anything can be in this business. Want to really show that these guys are "the most exciting," unleash them.

Absolutely nothing would be wrong with CM Punk as Champion with Jamie Noble & Kendrick being strongly featured. They are GREAT talents. If the WWE put some real effort into them, they'd put on great matches & would have great storylines, something else that the WWE is lacking right now. There aren't any real storylines out there.

I honestly don't know if the IWC is that much of a minority anymore. A lot of towns the WWE goes to are "smark" towns, meaning they know what the hell is going on. And with the Internet more available than it ever has been, I'm willing to bet that more people are apart of the IWC than we think. Like you said, members of the IWC will go to shows & watch on TV regardless. I've come across people as young as 12 years old, and probably younger, on Internet wrestling sites. They are often annoying as all hell, but they're here.

Sooner or later, the current crop of youngins are going to grow up and get a little bit wiser. If the WWE product is still the same, they'll be saying exactly what we are now. The WWE can't go back to what worked. They have to find new ways of making new things work. They don't take risks anymore. They do the safe, dependable option and their product suffers because of it.

This may sound crazy, but the WWE's idea of what's good for business is what's killing the product. They are making more money now than they ever have, but at the same time, the product has never been so damn predictable, boring, and flat-out stale.

There's your problem, the Attitude Era is over. It's been over for a long time. And many within the industry (most notably Jim Cornette) have even commented on how it hurt WWE more than anything for the long run. They kept on raising the bar, and raising the bar, and raising the bar, until people became burned out once they couldn't raise the bar anymore. And yes, society has changed. Back when the Attitude Era was huge, Jerry Springer was pulling in ratings for being trashy and as redneck as possible. And then WWE reflected that style of programming with trashy girls, the Godfather character where girls were referred to as hoes, and Steve Austin drinking beer on every show. Last I checked, Jerry Springer is nowhere near as cool as it was in 1998, if the Godfather was around now, people would have a field day of PC proportions about him and characters like Austin hardly draw the same types of pops that they did in their heyday. I loved it when I was 8 and that type of show would come on, but after a while, even that formula got old. Which is why they went south with it.


And another thing, WWE isn't trying to compete or answer to anyone else in the wrestling industry. If someone else watches TNA or ROH, then more power to them. I watch ROH more than WWE now it seems. It's not true, but if you were to ask me what was going on in ROH, i'd tell you. Whereas if you asked me what's happening in WWE, I'd say the names of champs and that's about it. But if you were to walk up to the average WWE fan, they'd have no idea who the hell Bryan Danielson is, despite him being a fantastic wrestler. You can get mad all you want about it, but it's really how it goes, as sad as it is, sir. WWE doesn't even refer to themselves as wrestling, do you really think they care if Delirious is a better high flyer than Kofi? I'd really fear for WWE the day they were to say "That Evan Bourne is a great high flier, but did you catch the Jimmy Jacobs match last Friday at the ECW Arena? He's a hell of a better wrestler and all you kids better look him up."


And while I personally have no problems with CM Punk as champ, or with Brian Kendrick being employed, I know that many people online are a selfish bunch. They'd book to their likings, but get pissed when people in WWE book to their own likings. It's a double standard, and while funny, it's also the sad truth.

And I hate when people who constantly bash WWE seemingly hide behind the two words 'stale' and 'boring' like it's a universal fact. That's the problem I had with anything online, to be honest. People liking Attitude Era, that's cool by me, because I liked it. People using Attitude Era as the mecca of all wrestling eras, that's just too much. It was a fun time, but there's a reason it's not like that right now. If they'd continued to do all the high risk stuff, all the blood and violence, and kept upping the ante like they were, we would have seen our first on-screen death in WWE. Trust me, they'd be stupid to try to go that route now. I miss the blood as much as anyone, and hated when Hell in the Cell only had blood in the main event, and even then it was on HHH's hand as a result of an accident. But I don't base my entire love for the WWE on the lack of blood. I understand why it's like that, and let it be. Bloody matches will make their comebacks some day, but for now they're just toning it down.

And Krimzon, don't think i'm singling you or anyone out. I know and acknowledge that WWE isn't even in the top 3 promotions as far as wrestling is concerned, but to say they're slowly dying by not appeasing the people who complain no matter what about their shows, that's just backwards thinking. Because you've met one smarky type who was 12 doesn't mean many kids that age have accounts on wrestling boards. And I've come across a kid just as you online. On XBOX Live, he ended up sounding as if he was trying hard just to fit in and would spout of smarky sentiments every 11 seconds like it was funny or something. Annoying as hell? Yes. Just a normal fan? Of course.

As far as the product being predictable, there's not much they can do at this point to change that. Any time something different happens, it's just called "unorthodox' and gets forgotten about. I hate it at times, but I don't get offended like many on here do. I realize it's just wrestling, and go about my business. I post here because I love it here. I love the interactions. But I hate the negativity as of late because I know it's not always been this way. I've seen some posters sporadically bash promotions, but never in the way as it is now. One could call it a cry for help. I'd call it 2 people hating, and 19 going with the flow. But that's just me.

[A Dubya (El Hombre Muerto)]

Oct 10, 2009 17:09:25 GMT -5 Krimzon said:

By all means of logic, SummerSlam dropping more than 100,000 buys from 2008 SHOULD slap them in the face and wake them up. The economy was crap in 08 and it still is. Can't blame that. Only thing to blame is the horrific programming.

I understand that it's marketed to kids, but even kids have to be somewhat confused and insulted by some of this. In this day and age, kids are more aware of the world than they have ever been. Childhood is getting shorter and shorter with every generation. Even kids have to feel like their intelligence is getting, not insulted, but bitch-slapped by the WWE at times. They are catering to kids, but apparently, they have failed to realize that kids are very different now than they were in the 80s & 90s. With everything that is on TV and the Internet nowadays, how can they think that this garbage will get over? The ratings & buyrates should tell them that it's not.

They should NEVER take what the live crowd says as gospel. Just because they cheer a leprechaun doesn't mean that the people watching at home are going to tolerate it when there are better things to watch. The Internet has made wrestling, most of it better wrestling, from all over the world accessable in a few clicks. People that actually have the money, and are true wrestling fans, aren't going to bother with Diva Bowls, Orton vs. HHH/Cena XIV, or unfunny midget shenanigans when they can get a better product online.

The WWE HAVE to realize that they need to step up their game before casuals start realizing that they aren't necessarily the best show in town. I do agree that the PG rating isn't the problem. It's what they actually pass off as "new" & "exciting" that has to go. I can't tell you the last time I was excited to see WWE TV. I'm glad SvR 2010 is going to have a story designer. That's where you'll start seeing the good stuff that it's becoming painfully obvious that we'll never get on WWE TV.

Rant over.

Great post. I agree with everything you said too.

[SickFlipPiledriver]

I'll take Hornswoggle and lack of blade jobs over necrophilia and Dr. Heiney skits any day.

[Paco]

Oct 10, 2009 17:09:07 GMT -5 Phil Parent said:

I don't buy the South Park reference though. Seen the last episode? Pretty Raunchy in spots. Broflovskis having sex. Doctor falling off the hospital room and splattering on the floor. Little girl beauty pageants judge jacking off to the little girls, etc...

I do agree things have gotten tamer in general culture though. High School Musical and American Idol has created a generation of idealistic, elitist dreamers.

Okay, you're right. South Park is still raunchy. But it's different from when the show began.
Trey and Matt grew up...sort of. Now, it's their outlet for social commentary. Before, it was pure dick and fart jokes and shock value which was awesome when I was 14. So was rap-metal (Korn, Limp Bizkit, etc.), Attitude, etc.

Good times indeed but I've grown and so have the times. The kids seem to be in control.
I got no problem with that. If I ran a wrestling promotion, I'd be PG too...just WCW-like PG, not WWE "pandering to the kids with leprechauns" PG.

[MolotovMocktail]

The WWF was PG in the Hogan/Warrior days, and while it was certainly not without crap, most of us enjoyed it. I don't mind a kid-friendly product as long as they don't insult the intelligence of the adult fans either, which is what's happening right now. Right now, the problem isn't so much it being PG as the thin rosters, hotshotted feuds, repetitive main events, and mass-produced feel of the ppv's.

[The Deadly Snake]

metylerca, even if you say we shouldn't go back to "Attitude", the matter of fact is, compared to almost all eras, the current era of the WWE is lacking. It pales in comparison to the WWE during the early 80's, late 80's, early 90's, late 90's, AND early 00's.

That's saying something. The "Attitude Era" comparison is that, a comparison. Let's face it: it was better than the current era. I'd concede it's no longer the Attitude Era, but I'd still say it's the better era. Two, what worked during the Atitude Era could and would work now. Three, even if we don't compare to the Attitude Era, it wouldn't matter, because comparing to other eras would have the same result, which is, not living up to the standard of ANY era, downturn or upturn. Period.

[Red Impact]

Is anybody seriously, truly arguing that in a freakin' decade society hasn't changed? Seriously?

Is that why Jerry Springer went from beating Oprah in the ratings in 1998 to getting about a quarter of her ratings in 2008? Or why I had 30 channels in 1998 and 230 channels in 2008?

[dh03grad]

Oct 10, 2009 23:33:25 GMT -5 Red Impact said:

Is anybody seriously, truly arguing that in a freakin' decade society hasn't changed? Seriously?

Is that why Jerry Springer went from beating Oprah in the ratings in 1998 to getting about a quarter of her ratings in 2008? Or why I had 30 channels in 1998 and 230 channels in 2008?

Society is alot closer to being 1998 than 1988.

[Red Impact]

Oct 10, 2009 23:42:00 GMT -5 dh03grad said:

Oct 10, 2009 23:33:25 GMT -5 Red Impact said:

Is anybody seriously, truly arguing that in a freakin' decade society hasn't changed? Seriously?

Is that why Jerry Springer went from beating Oprah in the ratings in 1998 to getting about a quarter of her ratings in 2008? Or why I had 30 channels in 1998 and 230 channels in 2008?

Society is alot closer to being 1998 than 1988.

But it's still not 1998, it's still pretty damn different.

[The Deadly Snake]

Oct 10, 2009 23:42:00 GMT -5 dh03grad said:

Oct 10, 2009 23:33:25 GMT -5 Red Impact said:

Is anybody seriously, truly arguing that in a freakin' decade society hasn't changed? Seriously?

Is that why Jerry Springer went from beating Oprah in the ratings in 1998 to getting about a quarter of her ratings in 2008? Or why I had 30 channels in 1998 and 230 channels in 2008?

Society is alot closer to being 1998 than 1988.

Exactly. And family entertainment != kid's entertainment. WWF 80's was FAMILY Entertainment. WWE now is KID'S entertainment.