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Post by Bubble Lead on Nov 19, 2009 6:32:56 GMT -5
Then praise WWE which puts on a lot of two minute matches, or go apecrap over something like Randy Orton trying to blow up John Cena during a match...yeah, thats SO much better than a guy moonsaulting another guy through a table. And I bet Orton trying to blow up Cena gets just as big a reaction live as the guy moonsaulting. Hell, Cena puts his arm in the air and outdoes the pop most guys get for doing all kinds of arm drags and headscissors. If the crowd is cheering. The show is working. That is all definitely true, but I wasn't arguing that. A lot of people try and act like WWE style is so psychology focused, and all indie matches arent. As if WWE is 80s NWA or something. It isn't though. A lot of WWE matches are either devoid of psychology or far too short to have any real storytelling going on.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,642
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Post by The Ichi on Nov 19, 2009 7:36:16 GMT -5
I'm a Jericho fan. I don't care about Gabe. I've found Smackdown enjoyable for the most part lately.
With that out the way, I f***ing hate this notion that you can't even post an opinion on your own webpage without a bunch of fanboys ripping it apart because the person with the opinion runs (or ran, whatever it is) a smaller company than the one he's criticizing. It's not like he went to Jericho's twitter and posted it. It was admitedly a little too smug for my liking, but that's his perogative. However, the main mentality here seems to be "No! He doesn't run a billion dollar company! He can't state his opinion! Rip him apart Jericho! lol". I guess everything that's the most popular and makes the most money these days should be immune to complaints. That's the (laughable) mentality I see here these days.
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Post by angryfan on Nov 19, 2009 7:53:08 GMT -5
I'm a Jericho fan. I don't care about Gabe. I've found Smackdown enjoyable for the most part lately. With that out the way, I f***ing hate this notion that you can't even post an opinion on your own webpage without a bunch of fanboys ripping it apart because the person with the opinion runs (or ran, whatever it is) a smaller company than the one he's criticizing. It's not like he went to Jericho's twitter and posted it. It was admitedly a little too smug for my liking, but that's his perogative. However, the main mentality here seems to be "No! He doesn't run a billion dollar company! He can't state his opinion! Rip him apart Jericho! lol". I guess everything that's the most popular and makes the most money these days should be immune to complaints. That's the (laughable) mentality I see here these days. Here's a comparison for you. Kevin Long spent about seven years in the minor leagues, and currently is the New York Yankees hitting coach. According to the logic that the WWE is "the biggest and therefore immune to criticism" argument the hitting coach for the Yankees, thanks to being a "career minor leaguer" would never be allowed to provide any critical analysis of the players' swings since, by and large, they have been more successful then he ever was. I'm gonna say that Jericho's response was (at least partially) in character, and would anyone really expect him to say "yes, I agree, but Vince told us to do it this way"? Hell no, that'd be career suicide. Thus, the only solution left is, stay in character, take a shot, and hope Gabe can read between the lines as I'm sure he did.
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Post by simplydurhamcalling on Nov 19, 2009 8:05:49 GMT -5
Wow, I can't believe how childish this thread has become, anyway to post my opinion on Gabe's comments, Jericho's reply etc.
I pretty much agree with all the stuff Gabe said though there are other things I find interesting on Smackdown as well as Punk I couldn't tell you the last time I sat through a whole episode....and trust me I've tried.
I love Jericho, I really do but I didn't think his reply was very 'burn' filled at all. It seemed to be a case of 'don't you talk about my company like that what did your company ever do?' I thought Gabe's reply to that was much more adult.
The argument about going out onto the street and asking people who had heard of WWE Smackdown and who'd heard of RoH is so pointless. Go out onto the straight and ask 100 people who has heard of Twilight and who has heard of The Wrestler or Milk and I bet the VAST majority would say Twilight. I don't think many who have seen both would argue Twilight is a better film than the latter two.
Gabe has as much right to an audience on the internet as any of us do, I would suggest people who've responded with such intellectual responses as 'who cares what Gabe says' etc think about that before they post their opinions again.
Anyway, I would be interested to know (as unlikely as it may be) if Jericho takes up Gabe's invite and if so, what he thinks of that product. I also think this is probably just a bit of a joke between them that people (including me now) have blown way out of proportion.
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Johnny Danger (Godz)
Wade Wilson
loves him some cavity searches
Lord Xeen's going to kill you.
Posts: 27,736
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Post by Johnny Danger (Godz) on Nov 19, 2009 9:09:47 GMT -5
And Jericho made fun of him for it. It's not like this is a big challenge. He's picking on him. This is the same guy who talks about how crappy the Miz is and how gay he is on a regular basis on his twitter. So, basically what you're saying is, Jericho is always right? I agree. ;D I'm a Jericho fan. I don't care about Gabe. I've found Smackdown enjoyable for the most part lately. With that out the way, I f***ing hate this notion that you can't even post an opinion on your own webpage without a bunch of fanboys ripping it apart because the person with the opinion runs (or ran, whatever it is) a smaller company than the one he's criticizing. It's not like he went to Jericho's twitter and posted it. It was admitedly a little too smug for my liking, but that's his perogative. However, the main mentality here seems to be "No! He doesn't run a billion dollar company! He can't state his opinion! Rip him apart Jericho! lol". I guess everything that's the most popular and makes the most money these days should be immune to complaints. That's the (laughable) mentality I see here these days. Here's a comparison for you. Kevin Long spent about seven years in the minor leagues, and currently is the New York Yankees hitting coach. According to the logic that the WWE is "the biggest and therefore immune to criticism" argument the hitting coach for the Yankees, thanks to being a "career minor leaguer" would never be allowed to provide any critical analysis of the players' swings since, by and large, they have been more successful then he ever was. I'm gonna say that Jericho's response was (at least partially) in character, and would anyone really expect him to say "yes, I agree, but Vince told us to do it this way"? Hell no, that'd be career suicide. Thus, the only solution left is, stay in character, take a shot, and hope Gabe can read between the lines as I'm sure he did. I don't think comparing wrestling to a real sport ever works. To succeed in the MLB, NHL, what have you, as either a player or coach, you HAVE to have talent. You can't get "pushed" to the world series just because the coaches like you (Though a lot of my baseball fan friends seem to think the sport is worked now because "The MLB wanted the Yankees in the world series". I dunno. I don't watch it so I can't say.) My only point is, you've got a virtual nobody to I'd say at least 96% of all the world's wrestling fans talking s*** about the most successful wrestling company there's ever been, at a show he didn't even sit all the way through. Take One Night Stand 2 for instance (The last PPV I ordered, so bare with me). It'd be like saying the entire show sucked because of Tazz/Lawler and Balls/Tanaka, nevermind the 6 person tag and RVD/Cena. To me, it REEKS of jealously, and makes him sound like he's got a "But I pander to the internet, why can't I sell out MSG?" mentality. I don't think anyone here has ever said that he doesn't have the right to voice his opinion, since thats, you know, what everyone on this board does on a daily basis. But the people who disagree with him also have the right to criticize him, without being labeled "a bunch of angry fanboys", when as far as I've seen, the people who DO disagree with this guy have done so completely within their rights and the rules of the board.
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
Great Job!
Posts: 5,665
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Post by spagett on Nov 19, 2009 9:23:01 GMT -5
And Jericho made fun of him for it. It's not like this is a big challenge. He's picking on him. This is the same guy who talks about how crappy the Miz is and how gay he is on a regular basis on his twitter. So, basically what you're saying is, Jericho is always right? I agree. ;D Here's a comparison for you. Kevin Long spent about seven years in the minor leagues, and currently is the New York Yankees hitting coach. According to the logic that the WWE is "the biggest and therefore immune to criticism" argument the hitting coach for the Yankees, thanks to being a "career minor leaguer" would never be allowed to provide any critical analysis of the players' swings since, by and large, they have been more successful then he ever was. I'm gonna say that Jericho's response was (at least partially) in character, and would anyone really expect him to say "yes, I agree, but Vince told us to do it this way"? Hell no, that'd be career suicide. Thus, the only solution left is, stay in character, take a shot, and hope Gabe can read between the lines as I'm sure he did. I don't think comparing wrestling to a real sport ever works. To succeed in the MLB, NHL, what have you, as either a player or coach, you HAVE to have talent. You can't get "pushed" to the world series just because the coaches like you (Though a lot of my baseball fan friends seem to think the sport is worked now because "The MLB wanted the Yankees in the world series". I dunno. I don't watch it so I can't say.) My only point is, you've got a virtual nobody to I'd say at least 96% of all the world's wrestling fans talking s*** about the most successful wrestling company there's ever been, at a show he didn't even sit all the way through. Take One Night Stand 2 for instance (The last PPV I ordered, so bare with me). It'd be like saying the entire show sucked because of Tazz/Lawler and Balls/Tanaka, nevermind the 6 person tag and RVD/Cena. To me, it REEKS of jealously, and makes him sound like he's got a "But I pander to the internet, why can't I sell out MSG?" mentality. I don't think anyone here has ever said that he doesn't have the right to voice his opinion, since thats, you know, what everyone on this board does on a daily basis. But the people who disagree with him also have the right to criticize him, without being labeled "a bunch of angry fanboys", when as far as I've seen, the people who DO disagree with this guy have done so completely within their rights and the rules of the board. [/quote] The only people who have been over the top are those that seem to dislike the guy. Those that like him haven't said his opinion is better than anyone elses they just like him and like to listen to what he has to say. In fact I don't think there have been that many people who have said they even like him. I don't know enough about him to form an opinion on him but I think his blog raised some valid points. There have been loads of posts saying"ah nobody cares what he says" ignoring the fact that people have posted that they do care. If you came in and just said you didn't care what he said there wouldn't be an issue but you tried to project your opinion onto others.
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Post by snugglecakes on Nov 19, 2009 9:47:21 GMT -5
What did he expect? WWE TV tapings have been like that since the 80s. I thought he was knowledgeable about wrestling?
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Post by heyguesswhatidid on Nov 19, 2009 10:23:53 GMT -5
I enjoy WWE and I enjoy companies like ROH, Dragon Gate USA, PWG and various other Indies.
When I watch WWE I like the spectacle, the lights and sounds and big names fighting.
When I watch indies I like the spontaneity of it all, the crowd interaction and the more pure wrestling aspect.
It's 2 different things and since Gabe is someone who works in the indie business he's probably not into the cookie cutter spectacle, but enjoys the more intimate, crowd interacting style of wrestling.
Neither style is bad, but also, neither style is for everybody and each will have its own fans and people that are against it, so let Gabe dislike a show, god forbid a promoter of a different company thinks another company entertains him.
Also, ask a Ford rep what he thinks of Toyota and you'll get a harsher response than what Gabe said about Smackdown.
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Post by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew on Nov 19, 2009 12:28:39 GMT -5
Dragon Gate USA Twitter @iamjericho better yet Mr. Jericho, consider yourself invited to 11/28 Philly or 1/23 Chi. DGUSA events & compare it to Smackdown yourself. @iamjericho Don't worry about the breadline Mr. Jericho, you are always welcome in Dragon Gate USA or EVOLVE. Gabe should be seeing a "cease and desist" order on the shameless plugs from HBK anytime now.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Nov 19, 2009 12:31:18 GMT -5
Dragon Gate USA Twitter @iamjericho better yet Mr. Jericho, consider yourself invited to 11/28 Philly or 1/23 Chi. DGUSA events & compare it to Smackdown yourself. @iamjericho Don't worry about the breadline Mr. Jericho, you are always welcome in Dragon Gate USA or EVOLVE. Gabe should be seeing a "cease and desist" order on the shameless plugs from HBK anytime now. Shawn Michaels is small time when it comes to shameless plugs. he's no threat to Gabe. now Mick Foley, there is the master of the shameless plug
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Peeetah
Hank Scorpio
BANG
Posts: 5,417
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Post by Peeetah on Nov 19, 2009 12:37:57 GMT -5
Travel back in time to the 1500s and ask people whether the Earth is flat or round. I bet most of the people will tell you the Earth is flat. What a ridiculous comparison. Especially since it isn't true, Stephen Fry said so and that mans word is gospel.
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Nov 19, 2009 12:42:18 GMT -5
He isn't allowed to have an opinion? apparently not no indeed, god forbid anyone in the wrestling business criticize wwe, THEE greatest thing ever created in the history of anything, that's just crazy talk or some shut in smark.
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
Posts: 15,620
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Post by AriadosMan on Nov 19, 2009 12:43:00 GMT -5
This criticism doesn't really seem that unreasonable. Most current WWE matches aren't really psychology based. Usually I end up only remembering one match per televised program (ex: "The Hurricane/Burchill match was really good, but there was alot of filler matches..." for ECW).
Keep in mind that a wrestler can get a good crowd reaction and still have boring, forgettable matches.
To Y2J's credit, his match is usually the one I remember the most of whatever show he's on.
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Post by manstis1804 on Nov 19, 2009 14:32:42 GMT -5
Wait. So all of us can come on here and talk about wrestling ALL DAY LONG EVERY DAY. But since Gabe Sapolsky is kind of well-known but not that well-known, he can't? Tons of people have blogs, and honestly the fact that Jericho acknowledged it and that there is a 5 page thread on a website says that his opinion does matter.
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sabu
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,605
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Post by sabu on Nov 19, 2009 15:12:11 GMT -5
I agree with Gabe 100%
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Post by taylorandborland on Nov 19, 2009 15:15:42 GMT -5
Wait. So all of us can come on here and talk about wrestling ALL DAY LONG EVERY DAY. But since Gabe Sapolsky is kind of well-known but not that well-known, he can't? Thread over.
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Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
R.I.P. Deadpool
Posts: 43,870
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Post by Krimzon on Nov 19, 2009 15:20:58 GMT -5
SmackDown! is formulatic. It just so happens that SmackDown!'s formula is much better than most. Gabe is a wrestling booker/promoter. It stands to reason that he would look at things with a more trained eye. All I know is that while Gabe was in ROH, that promotion was amazing. Ever since he left, I can't even bring myself to watch it.
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deeks
Trap-Jaw
Posts: 264
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Post by deeks on Nov 19, 2009 15:21:29 GMT -5
See, Gabe can compliment a non-indy promotion.
From his Myspace a couple of weeks ago.
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Post by Solid Stryk-Dizzle on Nov 19, 2009 15:37:44 GMT -5
It seems like he only goes crazy for a show when a guy he worked with shows up.
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
Great Job!
Posts: 5,665
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Post by spagett on Nov 19, 2009 15:43:13 GMT -5
It seems like he only goes crazy for a show when a guy he worked with shows up. He's probably friends with them. Surely that proves he isn't bitter. He is happy to see his friends move onto a bigger stage.
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