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Post by Kroot bringing Justice on Dec 5, 2009 15:37:22 GMT -5
(I'm looking at you, Shinji), I'll take the badass hero. Shinji had every reason to cry seeing because of what he was constantly going threw, how young he was, and the things he had to do. And he still pretty much all ways manned up and did what it took to save the day *EoE notwithstanding*. |
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Dec 5, 2009 20:42:18 GMT -5
/\ indeed. people complaining about Shinji's constant angst are missing the point. anyone put in his situation would've ended up cracking. Evangelion was a deconstruction of old Mecha anime like Macross/Robotech.
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Post by Drink Up Me Cider on Dec 5, 2009 20:53:06 GMT -5
 'Because it's a big dumb jellyfish!' Yea, Shepard > Shinji Ikari, Squall Leonhart, Tidus and the bastardized version of Cloud in Crisis Core, Advent Children. May be it's a generation thing but a hero to me is not a whiny bitch but some one who inspires leadership and helps others. Not some one who has to go on some bull-crap find yourself journey whilst being a prissy, negative git through out the entire adventure. |
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Soultastic
El Dandy
Only an idiot can be completely happy.
Posts: 8,960
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Post by Soultastic on Dec 5, 2009 21:47:10 GMT -5
(I'm looking at you, Shinji), I'll take the badass hero. Shinji had every reason to cry seeing because of what he was constantly going threw, how young he was, and the things he had to do. And he still pretty much all ways manned up and did what it took to save the day *EoE notwithstanding*. I know that, but justifying it is not the same as making it interesting. And yes, he manned up, but that lead to THE END OF THE WORLD. I'm sorry, but justified as it may be, the wangst made me lose interest. My point was that I'd rather have a simple idiotic badass character who doesn't try to be more than he/she is, than a hero that's design to make people think that the wangst makes the show "artistic" (in other words, angst =/= art). |
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Dec 6, 2009 1:23:45 GMT -5
I think that somewhere between these posts, we've hit upon what's underrepresented in upstanding heroes - being an amoral jerk is easier than being nice.
All that one needs to project depth in a true blue character is to 1) contrast them with others who aren't nice and 2) make the true blue person not innocent, but simply someone who doesn't give in to their baser instincts.
Taken that way, the jerkass types start to look like immature assholes.
This, when done right, is the kind of direction that many writers have tried to take with Superman, evidenced in the story "What is So Funny About Truth, Justice, and The American Way?".
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm on Dec 6, 2009 1:37:44 GMT -5
Because these guys:  Are far more awesome than these guys:  Yup, that red x sure is a badass. And I see Deadpool as a different kind of badass. Someone who's badass without doing the usual "badass" things that badass heroes do. From what I've seen of him, he's a badass who doesn't try to be a badass. |
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Malcolm
Grimlock
Wanted something done about the color of his ring.
May contain ADHD
Posts: 13,505
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Post by Malcolm on Dec 6, 2009 1:41:23 GMT -5
Damn, that red X is supposed to be a picture of Hawk & Dove.  On my side, the red x is supposed to be Cable and Deadpool. |
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Dec 6, 2009 1:41:49 GMT -5
Well there goes my snarky way of saying that Cable & Deadpool are much cooler than Hawk & Dove. |
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Post by Sarsaparilla on Dec 6, 2009 2:10:37 GMT -5
It's because angry, frustrated "badasses" are realistic. You think someone defending good against evil day in, day out's going to be all chipper about it?
If the hero isn't on some level an abrasive jerk, the story stinks.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 6, 2009 2:21:06 GMT -5
It's because angry, frustrated "badasses" are realistic. You think someone defending good against evil day in, day out's going to be all chipper about it? If the hero isn't on some level an abrasive jerk, the story stinks. I still disagree. I don't find an amoral jerkass who does dickhole things just to be cool and badass to be interesting. And please don't take that to mean I want perfect ubermensch types either. |
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Post by Sarsaparilla on Dec 6, 2009 2:40:33 GMT -5
Well that's not even what I said though. If a hero is going to be realistic and the story is supposed to be fleshed out, he/she is going to have outbursts, is going to drink and smoke at the pub, get into arguments with the hubby/wife, whatever. I can't get behind a protagonist who doesn't just try to be Jesus-like, but is Jesus-like sans the not fighting part.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Dec 6, 2009 3:51:46 GMT -5
It's because angry, frustrated "badasses" are realistic. You think someone defending good against evil day in, day out's going to be all chipper about it? If the hero isn't on some level an abrasive jerk, the story stinks.  |
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Post by dragonfire53511 on Dec 6, 2009 4:22:32 GMT -5
I think in truth, In story telling the idea of a character that transends the structual norms. As a normal Hero there supouse to signfy the morals that the society hold in highest regard while maintaing the world and keeping everything balanced against the norm everyday villians in it (thugs,mobsters,racist, etc. and or common rouge gallery that appear regulary in the story.)
The bad ass heros our those that ethier started as a normal hero or person whom has suffered some tragic lost in there history or betrayl that has warped there views and has driven them to become stronger. An with the same case working for villians that become big bosses in the series.
In the long run I think people like the badass heros and villians because they cause a imbalance in the world they interact with because it shake up the stagnet parts a comic series goes through when nothing big happen for awhile.
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Post by Joker on Dec 6, 2009 14:17:10 GMT -5
I like my heroes to be wisecracking, fun but still heroic like Flash, Wally West or Spider-Man (When he isn't invovled ina soap opera storyline)
I have no probs with bad ass heroes or anti heroes except the Punisher, who I am glad is currently a limbless corpse.
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Dec 6, 2009 14:43:55 GMT -5
Maybe it's just me, but I consider some nice-guy heroes to be pretty bad-ass as well, if not quite the same as the more traditional bad-asses. I mean, Captain America for instance can kick some ass when he wants to, and a lot of times he does so as an under-dog power-wise. To me, that's as bad-ass as the guys running around with dark and angry scowls on their faces, if not more so.
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Post by Kroot bringing Justice on Dec 6, 2009 15:44:51 GMT -5
'Because it's a big dumb jellyfish!' Yea, Shepard > Shinji Ikari, Squall Leonhart, Tidus and the bastardized version of Cloud in Crisis Core, Advent Children. May be it's a generation thing but a hero to me is not a whiny bitch but some one who inspires leadership and helps others. Not some one who has to go on some bull-crap find yourself journey whilst being a prissy, negative git through out the entire adventure. Except alot of those guys you posted aren't whiny bitches at all. Especially Tidus. |
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Post by Rorschach on Dec 6, 2009 15:51:43 GMT -5
I like my heroes to be wisecracking, fun but still heroic like Flash, Wally West or Spider-Man (When he isn't invovled ina soap opera storyline) I have no probs with bad ass heroes or anti heroes except the Punisher, who I am glad is currently a limbless corpse. Why the hate for Frank Castle? I mean, when done right, he's a far more human character than most of what you'll find in Marvel comics. To me, you know what's more aggravating than having so many "badass" hero types? It's the Bad Girl archetype. And mainly because it's such a thin, useless character type. All they have to have are a set of 38EE boobs, a costume that barely qualifies as dental floss, and they're set. How the HELL they ever fight (crime, the good guys, it doesn't matter) at all I don't know. You'd think with boobs that big, running or backflipping or doing karate without some form of support would be PAINFUL as all hell. But I digress. |
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Bedlam LadyD
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Post by Bedlam LadyD on Dec 6, 2009 16:13:34 GMT -5
I like my heroes to be wisecracking, fun but still heroic like Flash, Wally West or Spider-Man (When he isn't invovled ina soap opera storyline) I have no probs with bad ass heroes or anti heroes except the Punisher, who I am glad is currently a limbless corpse. Why the hate for Frank Castle? I mean, when done right, he's a far more human character than most of what you'll find in Marvel comics. To me, you know what's more aggravating than having so many "badass" hero types? It's the Bad Girl archetype. And mainly because it's such a thin, useless character type. All they have to have are a set of 38EE boobs, a costume that barely qualifies as dental floss, and they're set. How the HELL they ever fight (crime, the good guys, it doesn't matter) at all I don't know. You'd think with boobs that big, running or backflipping or doing karate without some form of support would be PAINFUL as all hell. But I digress. ...No kidding. No. FREAKING. Kidding. I have a more-or-less regular chest size and I need a good sports bra so I can go running without it being awkward. Not to mention my feminist side always wants to face palm and shake somebody when I see a woman how you described in comics...or cartoon...tv..etc. Because if a woman like that were facing a horde of mindless zombies or even regular (though evil-minded) humans were after her...she'd end up in the dark side of the dirt. There's no way she's be able to walk regularly, let alone all that action-related physicality. AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON THE CLOTHES. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2009 16:32:59 GMT -5
I like a lawful but tough-as-nails protagonist, ufortunately these are kind of hard to find.
He'll fight anyone he has to and has no problem killing anyone who did something that deserves it, but he abides by all the rules that a regular person has to and has to use his own wit to simultaneously do what everyone wants to be able to do while keeping the institution he works for from turning on him.
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Post by RI Richmark on Dec 6, 2009 16:43:01 GMT -5
Personally, I'd like to see a hero who constantly tries to do the right thing (and NEVER acts out in a "cool badass" way), but not only does he never get appreciated for it, but everybody thinks he's a complete jerkass who just wants to ruin everybody else's fun. And still have him persevere and never turn. Cena? |
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