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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Dec 6, 2009 16:44:43 GMT -5
I was especially pissed Tien went right back to being completely useless in the Buu Saga. Especially seeing how he actually did decent against Cell. Same here, Tien and Yamcha were my two favorite characters. I mean Tien easily had the most badass moment of the Cell saga when he held back Imperfect Cell even when he was so much weaker. Edit: And now I found that moment.
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Post by Rorschach on Dec 6, 2009 16:49:59 GMT -5
Why the hate for Frank Castle? I mean, when done right, he's a far more human character than most of what you'll find in Marvel comics. To me, you know what's more aggravating than having so many "badass" hero types? It's the Bad Girl archetype. And mainly because it's such a thin, useless character type. All they have to have are a set of 38EE boobs, a costume that barely qualifies as dental floss, and they're set. How the HELL they ever fight (crime, the good guys, it doesn't matter) at all I don't know. You'd think with boobs that big, running or backflipping or doing karate without some form of support would be PAINFUL as all hell. But I digress. ...No kidding. No. FREAKING. Kidding. I have a more-or-less regular chest size and I need a good sports bra so I can go running without it being awkward. Not to mention my feminist side always wants to face palm and shake somebody when I see a woman how you described in comics...or cartoon...tv..etc. Because if a woman like that were facing a horde of mindless zombies or even regular (though evil-minded) humans were after her...she'd end up in the dark side of the dirt. There's no way she's be able to walk regularly, let alone all that action-related physicality. AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON THE CLOTHES. Interestingly, I remember at least ONE so called "Bad Girl" comic trying to address this. I believe it was called "Fatale", and the titular character was the typical 40E-chested, scantily clad babe who had bullet-proof skin and enhanced strength. Well, in her first fight, she wore this absolutely retarded skimpy outift, and got her ass handed to her by her enemy, who talked all sorts of smack about how "soft" and "out of shape" Fatale was, and how her uber-boobs prevented her from doing anything. I think there were even a few shots of Fatale's chest bouncing up into her line of sight, and blocking her from seeing the next punch coming. Anyway, she gets her ass kicked and resolves to get A) A better, more supportive, more utility oriented outfit and B) A personal trainer to help her get into better cardio shape, and teach her karate/judo. Kind of rare to see that in those days. And wouldn't you know it, the damn thing got canceled halfway into it's run. I've always wondered what would have happened to Fatale. ;D
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Dec 6, 2009 18:37:48 GMT -5
Shinji had every reason to cry seeing because of what he was constantly going threw, how young he was, and the things he had to do. And he still pretty much all ways manned up and did what it took to save the day *EoE notwithstanding*. I know that, but justifying it is not the same as making it interesting. And yes, he manned up, but that lead to THE END OF THE WORLD. I'm sorry, but justified as it may be, the wangst made me lose interest. My point was that I'd rather have a simple idiotic badass character who doesn't try to be more than he/she is, than a hero that's design to make people think that the wangst makes the show "artistic" (in other words, angst =/= art). An angst-ridden character can be incredibly fascinating as long as they remain proactive (Hamlet). I can understand a disconnect from the audience if the hero's woes causes them to act in a cowardly or unheroic manner (and yeah, youth does play a factor), but if they're angsting and working to fix the cause of their angst at the same time, there shouldn't be much of a problem.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 6, 2009 18:48:20 GMT -5
Personally, I'd like to see a hero who constantly tries to do the right thing (and NEVER acts out in a "cool badass" way), but not only does he never get appreciated for it, but everybody thinks he's a complete jerkass who just wants to ruin everybody else's fun. And still have him persevere and never turn. Cena? Someone already tried using that, and it's already been addressed.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Dec 6, 2009 19:07:33 GMT -5
Someone already tried using that, and it's already been addressed. Well, when I mentioned Cena, it was meant to signify the "under-appreciated" aspect of a hero (at least among a good portion of WWE fans) who always tried to do the right thing.
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Post by Joker on Dec 6, 2009 20:26:02 GMT -5
I like my heroes to be wisecracking, fun but still heroic like Flash, Wally West or Spider-Man (When he isn't invovled ina soap opera storyline) I have no probs with bad ass heroes or anti heroes except the Punisher, who I am glad is currently a limbless corpse. Why the hate for Frank Castle? I mean, when done right, he's a far more human character than most of what you'll find in Marvel comics. Because his idea of justice is blowing a hole in the head of the villain. Thats not heroic, thats up there with superheroes not putting the supervillain in jail in the movies, which also annoys me. In a real world setting thats fine as he would be on a level playing field, but he lives in a world where villains control magnetism, are immortal gods, know complex martial arts, shape shift, have access to magic or a combinationf of those skills and more or they are gang leaders who can hire these people. Despite Frank Castles many many guns and years of training, he should be dead as no decent super villain worth there salt would sit about waiting for the inevitable gunshot from The Punisher. I am suprised that Norman Osborns recent plan to set every Supervillain he had after The Punisher hadn't been done before. The moment Daken literally went mortal kombat fatality on him was for me a great moment. (I know he is coming back as Frankenpunisher ... ;D ) Thats an arm gone. and there goes the head. Only just passing Captain America beating the crap out of him during civil war, after uzi-ing to death Goldbug and Plunderer. I admit he can be written very well, but he is not a hero. He's the Scourge of the Underworld (the character) who got a backstory and a nice T-Shirt.
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Post by RI Richmark on Dec 6, 2009 20:38:27 GMT -5
Someone already tried using that, and it's already been addressed. Well, when I mentioned Cena, it was meant to signify the "under-appreciated" aspect of a hero (at least among a good portion of WWE fans) who always tried to do the right thing. Sorry, I didn't read the entire thread
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Post by Kroot bringing Justice on Dec 6, 2009 20:47:15 GMT -5
Only just passing Captain America beating the crap out of him during civil war, after uzi-ing to death Goldbug and Plunderer. I admit he can be written very well, but he is not a hero. He's the Scourge of the Underworld (the character) who got a backstory and a nice T-Shirt. I pretty much agree with you on the whole thing with Frank *THough I have to admit I am actually interested in him now with the whole Franken Punisher thing*. I was so happy when Cap kicked his ass. Goldbug and Plunderer were two guys, who like Stilt-Man were aactually trying to do good. Bug and Plunderer were never really villains you wanted to see killed. Yeah they were bad guys but bad guys that deserved to get killed? Hell no.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Dec 6, 2009 20:55:43 GMT -5
that's why I prefer Garth Ennis' Punisher. he had the good sense to sidestep the whole "same world as superheroes" thing. Punisher works a lot better when he's going after real world evils like the Mafia or Sex slavers than he does when he's up against supervillains.
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Post by Dynamite Kid on Dec 6, 2009 21:07:36 GMT -5
No idea personally, I all ways prefered the nice guy super heroes and the bad ass guys are usually assholes who ruin group dynamics *Thanks for f***ing up the JSA Magog*. You have a point there.
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Post by taylorandborland on Dec 6, 2009 22:07:47 GMT -5
Honestly, while I like Cape types more than anti-heroes, I hate the whole "you should've just thrown him in jail" rhetoric. The legal system in comic books sucks ass.
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