Unanswered questions from The Dark Knight

[TheDieselTrain]

I love this movie and all but there a few loose ends that need to be answered. Now I havent read the book to the movie which I have heard does exist so maybe the answers are there.

Were the fake Batmans working with Scarecrow in the beginning? When the fakes show up he says thats not him and when the real deal shows up he says thats more like it. However when Batman saves the day he leaves them and says dont ever let me see you again.

When Lao goes to Hong Kong Harvey Dent says to Gordon oh yeah you have scum in your office like Wertz & Ramierez. These two end up being the ones who set him and Rachel up to die. Why exactly did he think that they were scum?

What happened to Lao? Did Joker just let him go? Did he just capture him so he could tie him up and throw money at him? I also noticed that when Joker burned his half of the money Lao wasnt on top of the money pile anymore. Did he just burn to death while up there? While were at it was that only The Joker's half of the money or all of the mob money because the other mob guy spazzes out when Joker has gasoline thrown on the money pile.

After two face "dies" (its in quotes because some people think that he survived the fall and they faked his funeral.) Batman says they must not know what he did. Gordon says 5 dead two of them cops.

Who are the five?

1. Wertz (cop)
2. Maroni's Driver
3. Maroni
4. ??
5. ??

I've seen some youtubbers say the 2nd cop is ramierez and after Two-face pimp slapped her she busted her head and died from that. I would have thought that Dent would of killed her anyways since she is the one who betrayed rachel and he already thought of her as scum anyways.

If Batman doesnt kill then why was he so totally willing to kill two-face? Gordon had a 50/50 chance. I think it would have been slightly better if we had seen if Gordon got heads or tails before Batman pushed him over.

[PaperStreetBrigade]

yea, Who Is The BatMan???

[Dr. T is an alien]

The fake Batmen were a group of vigilantes in their own right; they were merely not that competent. They also were fairly easy to distinguish from the real deal (especially since the real one essentially drove a tank). Batman told them he did not want to see them again because they were going to get themselves killed and really were just making matters worse for being there (plus the fact was that they were shooting at anything that moved, so they were going to kill someone that way).

Dent did not trust those cops because he wa a former cop himself in Internal Affairs. He investigated the cops in question on multiple corruption charges, but wasn't able to find anything concrete.

Lao was indeed still on the top of the money went Joker lit it up, so he died a rather unpleasant death. As far as whether it really was just half of the money, who knows? It isn't as thought the Joker is a paragon for truth. Then again, perhaps Joker did only burn his half and stole the rest (since robbing the mob is a hobby of his). He had to finance that little test of his somehow.

One of the five dead was Dent himself. I'm not sure who the 5th dead was.

Batman didn't try to kill Dent. I'm sure that he tried to grab him as they both fell, but couldn't.

[Cela]

Ok, from the beginning.

He tied up the other Batmans because they were shooting people and therefore criminal vigilantes.

Harvey had made his name going after corrupt people. So he would have known those two had certain connections.

Lao burns. And yes it was half, but imagine you gave half your moey to someone only to watch them burn it, wouldn't you freak out?

I think the other two were the ones killed in the hospital by joker, but they figured Dent had done it. Maybe he killed the barender.

He tackled two face by jumping off with him. Since Maroni had survived such a fall earlier, perhaps he thought he would live.

[The QC Loser]

the other dead one would be Rachel wouldn't it

[Grendel]

Your questioning reminds me of one of the problems I had with Superman Returns. He lands the plane in the middle of a baseball park, but he doesn't stick around to remove it from the stadium. What about the costs of removing the plane from the stadium? And if it takes them a long time to do it, how many games would have to be postponed?

[Deleted]

Jan 6, 2010 10:26:25 GMT -5 Grendel said:

Your questioning reminds me of one of the problems I had with Superman Returns. He lands the plane in the middle of a baseball park, but he doesn't stick around to remove it from the stadium. What about the costs of removing the plane from the stadium? And if it takes them a long time to do it, how many games would have to be postponed?

Excellent point.

[Grendel]

^^I actually said in the theatre after he flew off, "Way to leave the plane in the stadium."

[TheDieselTrain]

Jan 6, 2010 10:09:18 GMT -5 The QC Loser said:

the other dead one would be Rachel wouldn't it

Two-Face didnt kill Rachel.

Jan 6, 2010 10:08:41 GMT -5 Cela said:

Lao burns. And yes it was half, but imagine you gave half your moey to someone only to watch them burn it, wouldn't you freak out?

That brings me to another question. I thought Lao said the money was in hong kong away from Dent's jurisdiction. So how'd it get back to Gotham City?

[Convoy]

Jan 6, 2010 10:46:31 GMT -5 TheDieselTrain said:

Jan 6, 2010 10:09:18 GMT -5 The QC Loser said:

the other dead one would be Rachel wouldn't it

Two-Face didnt kill Rachel.

Jan 6, 2010 10:08:41 GMT -5 Cela said:

Lao burns. And yes it was half, but imagine you gave half your moey to someone only to watch them burn it, wouldn't you freak out?

That brings me to another question. I thought Lao said the money was in hong kong away from Dent's jurisdiction. So how'd it get back to Gotham City?

Maybe it wasn't the actual money stolen, but the equivalent that they took out after they captured Lao.

[Dr. T is an alien]

Electronic transfer of accounts explains your last question.

[Jobes]

Jan 6, 2010 9:46:57 GMT -5 TheDieselTrain said:

Who are the five?

1. Wertz (cop)
2. Maroni's Driver
3. Maroni
4. ??
5. ??

From IMDB

A definitive answer is impossible. Christopher Nolan, when asked about an answer during a Blu-Ray Live Event on December 18, responded "I will answer this question one day. But not today."

Here is a list of who he could have meant:

The cops guarding Harvey Dent at Gotham General Hospital. One cop radios a second cop, who is guarding Dent's room. The guard cop does not reply, so the first cop goes in to check out the situation. The Joker shoots him and presumably has already shot the guard. That's two cops right there. (However, the bodies of these cops would have been destroyed in the ensuing explosion, so it's unlikely Gordon meant these two.)

Detective Wuertz. Killed in the bar.

Detective Anna Ramirez. While Two-Face lets her live, he knocks her out. She would have been missing. Gordon, knowing she's the one who drove Rachel, might have assumed she was dead. Or, less likely, Dent inadvertantly killed her - although he intends to let her live, she could have been severely injured (e.g., head striking pavement) after being knocked out by Dent, and subsequently died.

Maroni's bodyguard. As soon as Maroni walks out of the building, and then walks around to get in the passenger side of his car, look to the left of the screen on the driver's side of the car. The bodyguard standing there is grabbed and pulled off-screen. (It's very fast and very quiet so don't take your eye off that guy.)

Maroni's Driver. Shot by Two-Face while driving along the scrapyard.

Salvatore Maroni. Not certain. Two-Face flips his coin and spares Maroni's life. He flips his coin again and tells Maroni, his driver isn't as lucky as he is. Two-Face puts his seat belt on and shoots the driver, causing him to crash and flip the car. While Two-Face walks away from the crash unscathed, we never find out what happened to Maroni. We can assume he was killed in the crash because he wasn't wearing his seat belt.

Harvey Dent. Gordon could have meant Dent himself. This begs the question of what Gordon eventually tells the mayor, since he does tell him after the National Guard is called in that Dent hasn't been found after the hospital explosion. Perhaps that he died in the explosion?

Bartender. A far-fetched theory, but here it is. When Two-Face went into the bar to kill Wuertz, the bartender went to the bathroom. Seconds later, we hear Two-Face walk out of the bathroom. Two-Face might have also killed the bartender to get rid of a witness. Note that Two-Face always obeys the flip of his coin no matter who the person is or what they might have done wrong. If this did happen, the reasons the scene might have been cut are: it was too violent for a PG-13 film; it was too early for Two-Face to kill an innocent person (it would have been his first murder); Christopher Nolan wanted him to be a tragic character and therefore wanted to focus on him taking revenge on the people who ruined his life, rather than on him killing an innocent bystander.

Cop guarding Gordon's apartment. Also a bit far-fetched, but when forced to call Barbara Gordon, Ramirez refers to cops that are guarding the Gordons, and tells Barbara that they're not to be trusted. After letting Ramirez off, Dent might have killed them in order to ensure that they didn't stop the Gordons from leaving. Note that during the phone call, Ramirez stated that she could distract the cops long enough for the Gordons to leave - but Dent then strikes her and presumably knocks her unconscious. If so, then Gordon is not referring to Wuertz - implying that Gordon did not know Wuertz had been killed.

However, since Gordon was in the observation room during the interrogation scene, where the Joker told Batman "You didn't disappoint; you let five people die," fans could argue it could be the five people the Joker killed:

1. Brian Douglas: "a Son of Batman."

2. Judge Surrillo: The judge presiding over the mob trail.

3. Commissioner Loeb: The man in charge of Gotham P.D.

4. Patrick Harvey: Gotham Police Officer.

5. Richard Dent: see number 4.

The flaw in this argument, as far as comparing this to Gordon's final statement to Batman after Dent's death, is that it's a matter of record that the Joker killed these other people, or had them killed in league with Maroni, and Batman's "letting" them die was simply a matter of Batman not turning himself in and revealing his true identity, at which point the Joker would have retreated (though Rachel thinks not). Gordon is referring to people who have died after Dent's disappearance, and whose deaths might be traced to Dent. And remember that by that time, Rachel was already dead, which would have upped the Joker's death count to six.

[Jobes]

Jan 6, 2010 9:46:57 GMT -5 TheDieselTrain said:

If Batman doesnt kill then why was he so totally willing to kill two-face? Gordon had a 50/50 chance. I think it would have been slightly better if we had seen if Gordon got heads or tails before Batman pushed him over.

Just like Joker said, "Tonight you're going to break your one rule." He does not intend to kill Dent, but save Gordon's son. At the end of Begins he says to Ra's, "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you." When faced with a choice, he will save the innocent before bringing the guilty to justice.

[jobber2thestars]

Great film, but I have a hard time getting over how every little thing had to go right for Joker's plan to work. If one small thing went wrong, the whole plan would have been messed-up.

[Deleted]

I have a question actually, I know this is probably me missing summit but when Joker has the money and Lao, its stated that that was his half of the moeny for doing his job but I thought his job was to kill Batman was it not? Or was it just to get him to stop or summit

Oh and also, regarding Gordons faked death.............Was that whole plan not reliant on Dent or someone else not in on Batman/Gordons plan to pretend to be Batman? Since it'd be kinda hard to do without Bats

[Sharpy Snow]

I've always persumed it's one of two things.

1. They are counting the two in the hospital.
2. They count Harvey as the 5th. Ramirez MAY not have died, but she was KO'd in an alley somewhere, so she wouldn't have reported in. So either she did die as a result of the attack or she recovered and either scared of TwoFace or scared that what she did would get back to one of her higher ups, so went on the run.

[SHAKEMASTER TV9 is Don Knotts]

Jan 6, 2010 13:53:11 GMT -5 @cyclonechyno said:

I have a question actually, I know this is probably me missing summit but when Joker has the money and Lao, its stated that that was his half of the moeny for doing his job but I thought his job was to kill Batman was it not? Or was it just to get him to stop or summit

Oh and also, regarding Gordons faked death.............Was that whole plan not reliant on Dent or someone else not in on Batman/Gordons plan to pretend to be Batman? Since it'd be kinda hard to do without Bats

When Joker offered to kill Batman at the group therapy, no one took him up. After Lao agreed to testifty, the mobsters were in a bar watching it on the news. I think it was the Chechen who said maybe we should talk to Joker. At least I think that happened. They could have told him to get the money back for them too.

Also, symbolically, Joker had killed the Batman. Maroni told Batman that they were on to him and that he won't kill them and as long as someone like the Joker is around, he won't be that symbol of fear to them.

I don't think the armored car plan would have happened if Bruce Wayne did reveal himself as Batman. But after Dent revealed himself as Batman, he contacted Gordon and did it the way we saw.

With the character of Joker in the movie, having things go wrong would have been something he'd welcome since it'd like cause alot of chaos.

[mcmahonfan85]

Jan 6, 2010 14:04:46 GMT -5 Sharpy Snow said:

I've always persumed it's one of two things.

1. They are counting the two in the hospital.

except they wouldn't count the two in the hospital because it blew up. if they did find the bodies, it'd get pinned on Joker.

[TheDieselTrain]

Jan 6, 2010 13:53:11 GMT -5 @cyclonechyno said:

I have a question actually, I know this is probably me missing summit but when Joker has the money and Lao, its stated that that was his half of the moeny for doing his job but I thought his job was to kill Batman was it not? Or was it just to get him to stop or summit

Oh and also, regarding Gordons faked death.............Was that whole plan not reliant on Dent or someone else not in on Batman/Gordons plan to pretend to be Batman? Since it'd be kinda hard to do without Bats

That kinda irked me too after they caught the Joker and Gordon revealed that he wasnt dead Harvey acted suprised. Yet in the final confrontation with two-face batman says what happened to Rachel wasnt chance We the three of us decided to act. So if that was ther plan then Dent shouldnt have acted suprised to see Gordon was alive.

I also want to know how the Joker overtook that 20 year man cop that was going to kick his ass after the interrogation room scene. He must fight like a girl if Joker got the upper hand on him while he was sitting down totally prone to attack. Also Joker had a knife when they cut back to the police station. HOW??? Was he hiding that in his underoos or something?

[Jedi-El of Tomorrow]

Jan 6, 2010 14:37:45 GMT -5 TheDieselTrain said:

Jan 6, 2010 13:53:11 GMT -5 @cyclonechyno said:

I have a question actually, I know this is probably me missing summit but when Joker has the money and Lao, its stated that that was his half of the moeny for doing his job but I thought his job was to kill Batman was it not? Or was it just to get him to stop or summit

Oh and also, regarding Gordons faked death.............Was that whole plan not reliant on Dent or someone else not in on Batman/Gordons plan to pretend to be Batman? Since it'd be kinda hard to do without Bats

That kinda irked me too after they caught the Joker and Gordon revealed that he wasnt dead Harvey acted suprised. Yet in the final confrontation with two-face batman says what happened to Rachel wasnt chance We the three of us decided to act. So if that was ther plan then Dent shouldnt have acted suprised to see Gordon was alive.

I also want to know how the Joker overtook that 20 year man cop that was going to kick his ass after the interrogation room scene. He must fight like a girl if Joker got the upper hand on him while he was sitting down totally prone to attack. Also Joker had a knife when they cut back to the police station. HOW??? Was he hiding that in his underoos or something?

I thought it was a piece of glass from the mirror that Joker was slammed into.