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Post by Jimichiro Likes Erick Rowan on Jan 11, 2010 8:39:58 GMT -5
I'm sorry to kinda ruin what is no doubt a serious conversation in here, but I misread this as "Chris Benoit Released" and my brain kinda melted... Johnny Ace has been so focused on scouting future divas from Hawaiian Tropic pics, he's fallen out of the loop.
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Post by YellowJacketY2J on Jan 11, 2010 10:01:40 GMT -5
I've been able to separate the man from the worker for about 2 years now, and can easily watch his work. The only time I get creeped out is when he and Nancy have segments together.
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Post by A Dubya (El Hombre Muerto) on Jan 11, 2010 10:10:02 GMT -5
I don't have a problem watching his matches. I just feel sad that they won't be remembered in a positive light by most people.
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Post by FailedGimmick on Jan 11, 2010 10:17:03 GMT -5
This is kind of weird, because yesterday I was watching my Bret Hart DVD set, and it was after the Owen tribute match that it just sort of hit me.
I also thought it was weird that they changed Benoit's WCW theme to his first WWE one, but they didn't touch Bret's.
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Post by Branimal on Jan 11, 2010 10:55:12 GMT -5
I'll never be one to pick up for him, as far as what happened. The facts are there, he did an awful, awful thing.
That being said, I will never say a bad thing about his work. The man knew how to have a great match, he was extremely talented in regards to his work. His ladder match with Jericho from Royal Rumble 2001 is still in my top 5 of all time.
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4real
Wade Wilson
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Post by 4real on Jan 11, 2010 11:02:58 GMT -5
I'll watch his matches on my DVD's if he's in the midcard but if he's a prominent part of the show like Rumble 03 and 04 and Wrestlemania XX then I won't watch it. I wouldn't want to give him the satisfaction of enjoying his career highlights again.
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Post by BlackJackRobby on Jan 11, 2010 11:14:43 GMT -5
I personally was one of his biggest fans from 96-03 when Eddie Guerrero became my #1 wrestler. It's still hard for me to watch and maybe near impossible as I don't remember seeing a full match of his since the horrible incident.
I still remember watching wrestling with my father, and becoming a fan because of Malenko, Guerrero, and Beniot.
I still remember meeting Beniot, I did not get to talk with him. I was only able to acknowledge as it was at a Nitro event.
Somethings happen that you cannot exchange, murder of your wife and child and taking the cowards way out is one of them. I seriously would say I'd be a fan of his to this day, if it was an incident with his wife. I'm not saying I'd watch him so much, but damn I want one reason to love seeing him again.
Instead we have nothing to base or put anything on, we can all just wonder. I even belive those close to him are still left in the dark as to why.
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Post by Hugh Mungus on Jan 11, 2010 11:34:22 GMT -5
Just in case if it gets ugly:
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Post by Brian Suntan on Jan 11, 2010 11:56:35 GMT -5
I always thought that people who make a big thing about seperating the man from the performer are putting him on a pedestal above other murderers, and I never really understood that. Anyway, I digress.....
He was never one of my favourites, but I could still probably watch his matches, and his theme is undoubtedly awesome. That said, I see no reason what-so-ever why the WWE shouldn't keep pretending like he never existed. He doesn't deserve to be remembered.
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Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Jan 11, 2010 11:59:30 GMT -5
I didn't knew Chris Benoit, Nancy Benoit, or Daniel Benoit, so I don't really care. They were just three out of thousands of people that die every day. Should I care more about them because they were famous? Does that make me cold-hearted or shallow?
That said, I can still get enjoyment from Benoit's matches.
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randomranter
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Post by randomranter on Jan 11, 2010 12:01:55 GMT -5
Nope, my mindset hasn't changed. The less I see of that son of a bitch, the better.
The day he decided to kill his wife and child, he instantaneously negated every positive contribution he made to the world of wrestling, and gave up his right to be remembered in any form of positive light in any way. He left a black mark on the world of wrestling that may never be fully erased.
Personally, I think the reports excuses about the condition of his brain are a bunch of BS. The guy apparently had a brain of mush yet was able to work for god knows how long without giving any warning signs, was able to make up an excuse about "family emergencies", etc. etc. etc. Bullshit. I'm not going to say that I knew why he did what he did other than to say that I firmly believe he knew exactly what he was doing and why he was doing it.
If anyone wants to continue enjoying his matches, then more power to you. But personally, he is the rare case where I'd like to see the WWE do more of the selective editing and revisionist history they're known for. Eliminate him from title lineages. Delete his matches on PPVs. Any time they can reasonably remove him from footage, they've got my support. (And yes, I know there are circumstances where this can not be done while maintaining a watchable program.). If there's footage out there that they cannot edit him from, then any proceeds made from that footage should go to the families, along with any proceeds from footage where Nancy was featured.
I hope the guy rots in hell.
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agent817
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Post by agent817 on Jan 11, 2010 12:08:26 GMT -5
There was an analogy that seems like a rather good one someone made that I can agree with. Here it goes: I believe the Benoit thing with me is kind of the same thing with the OJ Simpson deal. I can't deny the stuff that happened, especially with OJ. But would I still enjoy the Naked Gun movies? I think I still would enjoy them, regardless of the OJ situation. Same with the fact that I won't deny that he was a great football player.
There is something I could add more to. Benoit was one of my favorites and I will admit that I sometimes feel funny if I watch a match of his, but other times, I tend to look past it and separate the man from the wrestler. It all depends with me.
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Post by drjayphd (feat. Pitbull) on Jan 11, 2010 12:21:36 GMT -5
Nope, my mindset hasn't changed. The less I see of that son of a bitch, the better. The day he decided to kill his wife and child, he instantaneously negated every positive contribution he made to the world of wrestling, and gave up his right to be remembered in any form of positive light in any way. He left a black mark on the world of wrestling that may never be fully erased. Personally, I think the reports excuses about the condition of his brain are a bunch of BS. The guy apparently had a brain of mush yet was able to work for god knows how long without giving any warning signs, was able to make up an excuse about "family emergencies", etc. etc. etc. Bulls***. I'm not going to say that I knew why he did what he did other than to say that I firmly believe he knew exactly what he was doing and why he was doing it. If anyone wants to continue enjoying his matches, then more power to you. But personally, he is the rare case where I'd like to see the WWE do more of the selective editing and revisionist history they're known for. Eliminate him from title lineages. Delete his matches on PPVs. Any time they can reasonably remove him from footage, they've got my support. (And yes, I know there are circumstances where this can not be done while maintaining a watchable program.). If there's footage out there that they cannot edit him from, then any proceeds made from that footage should go to the families, along with any proceeds from footage where Nancy was featured. I hope the guy rots in hell. ...and there's the grenade that inevitably derails these topics. (sigh) Personally, I'm of the opinion that what he did doesn't change history. That's pretty much the only reason I support keeping Benoit in DVD's and such, wherever he may be. Let those of us who can separate the man from his work enjoy Benoit on that level. I'm not in any position to tell people what they can and can't do, or for that matter, how to feel about him. The preceding quote is that poster's opinion, and that's fine if it's how he feels. But don't tell me I'm wrong because I can watch his matches, etc. and not get queasy or fly into a rage. As far as being able to separate Benoit from his work... can you still listen to Phil Spector's music? Can you still watch The Towering Inferno or the Naked Gun movies? Same situation with Benoit. Wrestling isn't that far of a stretch, insofar as the wrestlers are actors, playing versions of themselves or some other character. Sure, we didn't know him personally, and if we did, some of us might have different opinions. But I don't think his private crimes taint his public performances. His legacy, yes, but not his work.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2010 12:41:57 GMT -5
I'm one of the (apparently few) people who can separate the man and the worker. And honestly, what the man did isn't any of my business, or anybody else for that matter IMO. This.
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Post by Solid Stryk-Dizzle on Jan 11, 2010 12:47:14 GMT -5
Honestly. Screw Benoit. All of the praise for being a great wrestler gets thrown out the window when you do what he did.
That's all I have to say.
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Post by Hugh Mungus on Jan 11, 2010 13:01:04 GMT -5
The WWE now treats Benoit like how the NFL treats O.J. Simpson: you can't ignore the bad things he's done, but you can't ignore their accomplishments (and, yes, I know that wrestling's staged, blah blah.) It's not OK to promote them, but they can't be erased from history.
And of course, we'll never know why Benoit did it. Is it (allegedly) spousal abuse, or is it severe depression after losing those who were very close to him (especially Eddie Guerrero)?
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Post by hajimenoippo on Jan 11, 2010 13:11:42 GMT -5
At least this thread hasn't become holier than thou from both sides. usually this thread goes "How dare you watch Benoit! He's a monster" "How could you not like him? He's awesome you're an idiot for not liking him or separating fact and fiction" Eh typing that second one out made me mad. I always thought that people who make a big thing about seperating the man from the performer are putting him on a pedestal above other murderers, and I never really understood that. Anyway, I digress..... Exactly how I feel. Guy is on the same level as Scott Peterson for me. I guess wrestling is still real to me. I just can't separate the characters on screen with the guy off. The guy killed his wife and his kid, no amount of german suplexes can fix that. ...and there's the grenade that inevitably derails these topics. (sigh) Personally, I'm of the opinion that what he did doesn't change history. That's pretty much the only reason I support keeping Benoit in DVD's and such, wherever he may be. Let those of us who can separate the man from his work enjoy Benoit on that level. I'm not in any position to tell people what they can and can't do, or for that matter, how to feel about him. The preceding quote is that poster's opinion, and that's fine if it's how he feels. But don't tell me I'm wrong because I can watch his matches, etc. and not get queasy or fly into a rage. It's not that you're wrong, but again people can watch his stuff on youtube. WWE is a publicly traded company and can't be bothered to include Benoit. The guy is on Dailymotion, google video, youtube, veoh...You can download his matches from bittorrent. He doesn't have to be on DVD for YOU to remember him. He's got all his matches online.
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Post by manstis1804 on Jan 11, 2010 13:24:44 GMT -5
I can watch his matches fine, unless he's taking a chair or any weapon to the head, or doing his diving head butt. The worst is in the 4 way TLC on Smackdown, when he's at the top of the ladder bleeding, looking like he's dying, and gives his throat slash gesture before diving off with a headbutt. That kind of stuff make me cringe and gives me tears in my eyes and I wonder how I can even watch this stuff seeing as it's pretty much speeding up the demise of these performers. But, the same can go for football, boxing, and even jazz which I'm a huge fan of but so many of its musicians died young due to drug and alcohol abuse.
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Post by Joker on Jan 11, 2010 13:37:11 GMT -5
Last Benoit match I watched was his minute win against Orlando Jordan for the US title.
I was fine with that, so I'll probably be fine with any other match he is in if I watch them, which at some point I probably will do because of the other wrestlers in the match.
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Post by brettappedout (BLM) on Jan 11, 2010 13:40:49 GMT -5
Honestly. Screw Benoit. All of the praise for being a great wrestler gets thrown out the window when you do what he did. That's all I have to say. I agree with this. Also I hate putting cetain peoples lives ahead of other, but when he killed his kid, a 7 YEAR OLD KID! It sealed the deal he was a monster and I'd never be able to watch match or even look at a picture of him without getting pissed off and sick.
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