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Post by hajimenoippo on Jan 11, 2010 13:50:48 GMT -5
Same here. Then again I love kids, and I hate kid killers. Guy would have been f***ed in prison.
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Eunös ✈
Dalek
Duck Feet Expert
Tolerated, just not practically liked.
Posts: 59,301
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Post by Eunös ✈ on Jan 11, 2010 14:27:54 GMT -5
If still being able to enjoy his Matches makes me a Sick Twisted Individual than so be it ¬.¬
Whilst i agree what he did is unforgivable, I refuse to let it ruin my Enjoyment off his Matches, I have watched many a Benoit Match since that Day..
I can understand and Accept why some People would never want to see a Benoit Match again, But it doesnt seem to Personally effect me.
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Jan 11, 2010 14:37:05 GMT -5
I can watch a Benoit match, simply because they're from before it all went so very wrong. I haven't any respect for Benoit though.
That said, I did once put together a lengthy piece on issues with the Benoit case- not to try to claim he was innocent, as I am almost certan he is guilty as sin just to point out mistakes made and how, if by some strange fate a different chain of events happened, any chance of proving such was lost. I've not read much of the news or info published about the case within the last 18-24 months though, so it's probably very out of date. It's just always bothered me how shabby some elements of the investigation were.
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sloride
Unicron
Doesn't Suck Up. Or Does She?
The Greatest Entertainer to have ever Lived
Posts: 3,196
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Post by sloride on Jan 11, 2010 14:50:29 GMT -5
I have no problems watching a Benoit match. What he did was deplorable but it can never change the fact that he was one of the finest technical wrestlers we have ever seen. What I do find uncomfortable is watching matches of his where he is doing unecessary stunts like the headbut off the top of the cage. Taking into account the state of his brain all that abuse led to his brain being that collosal mess. Whether that contributed to to what happened is debatable, but I believe it certainly didn't help matters.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2010 14:55:56 GMT -5
I could honestly care less.
Henry Ford was a monster. He was an anti-semite and Nazi sympathizer who was awarded the Grand Cross (the highest honor the Nazi's ever gave out) . Does that mean I won't buy/ride in a Ford or use any product made on an assembly line? Of course not. He's dead - he doesn't gain anything from it.
Chris Benoit was a monster as well. But he doesn't profit or gain anything from me watching a wrestling match.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 11, 2010 15:09:41 GMT -5
It's weird. I haven't watched any Benoit matches in awhile, but mostly because I haven't really had the opportunity.
A few years ago, there was this murder that took place in Manitoba. This man boarded a greyhound bus, and snapped. He ended up stabbing this one guy, chopping his head off, eating parts of his body, and had body parts in his pockets when he was brought to the police station. When everyone got off the bus and locked him in, he took the severed head of the person, held him up by the hair and showed all the crowd. He then dropped it by the locked door.
I was pretty shocked, mostly because it was a province over, and I'm one who takes the bus a lot when I'm traveling. The bus left from Edmonton. When I first heard about it, I wanted Canada to bring back the death penalty to put this guy away (though whether I'm for or against the death penalty, it's irrelevant, but in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, you have a right to life, and that's why there is no capital punishment in Canada). I heard more about the story, how he ended up getting 2 years in prison, and I think it was in a mental ward.
He had a severe case of schitzophrenia, and blacked out. I couldn't believe it when I heard, but when I briefly took the law class, I remember reading about mens rea, and the concept of a guilty mind. In order to completely convict somebody, you need to prove actus rea and mens rea (guilty act and guilty mind). However, in this case, you couldn't. He had a problem, and it ended up being a terrible tragedy. So, personal emotions aside, I understood how this case ended.
After hearing all the information on Benoit, I'm not even sure if he would have gotten convicted of double murder if he stayed alive, at least that in the 1st degree. He may've ended up getting a manslaughter sentence. Though, I guess the first homicide may've gotten that, the second I'm not too sure, due to how long it took place til afterwards. My personal guess is he was going to kill himself after he killed himself, and if there were no plans on killing himself, I doubt he would have killed Daniel. Again, this is my opinion based on what I've read, been presented with, etc.
He had been having personal problems with Nancy. According to Hardcore Holly, he said days before the incident, that Nancy had been acting like Hitler. Nancy was also grieving the loss of Sensational Sherri the week prior. With what happened with his brain autoposy, I'm sure his defense would have put in an insanity plea. Kinda like what happened with Verne Gagne when he killed that person. He had diminished mental capacity, and like, it's a tragedy, but it's a tough crime to convict. And that's kinda what I think of it.
I want to think that he's just a bad person, and he did bad things definitely, but I think this maybe one of those tragedies. And I know this statement may end up starting a flame or two against me, (I hope not anyway, it's not my intention) but obviously, he regretted what he did. Again, not justifying, but with how the murders took place from such a long period, it seems to me that there was a period of shock, contimplation, and followed up by the horrible crime of killing his son (who he drugged up, at least that's my guess) and put a sleeper on him, killing him (or some hold, I believe that was the one, as it cuts off the cardioid arteries and can cause asphyxiation). Again, not justifying, but this is the picture I see in my head everytime I think about it.
And, even after saying that, it's still tough. He did such a horrible thing, but I don't buy that he was possesed or something, then turned into this evil person. I think, due to continuous trauma to the brain (and you can look up many examples on people who lose the capacity to do different things with brain damage) his anger took over, regret set in, he decided to kill himself, and didn't want Daniel to see that, though obviously in his mental state, wasn't the best decision anyway, as one can imagine.
So, I guess that's how I view the situation, as a horrible tragedy, and the fact that maybe if Benoit had gotten the help he needed, none of this would have happened.
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Post by hajimenoippo on Jan 11, 2010 15:27:53 GMT -5
I think crazy people should be kept away from the public at all times
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Mr Captain Falcon
Dennis Stamp
So I could write anything in here and it'll be posted?
Posts: 4,705
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Post by Mr Captain Falcon on Jan 11, 2010 15:37:19 GMT -5
It doesn't matter how long it's been since the incident occurred. I'll always think of what happened. He was my all time favorite performer. However, I can still watch his matches, but I can't enjoy them as much.
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Post by don on Jan 11, 2010 15:39:42 GMT -5
I didn't knew Chris Benoit, Nancy Benoit, or Daniel Benoit, so I don't really care. They were just three out of thousands of people that die every day. Should I care more about them because they were famous? Does that make me cold-hearted or shallow? That said, I can still get enjoyment from Benoit's matches. So, you can't feel sympathy for anyone that you don't know. If that is the case, than as ironic as it may be, I have sympathy for you.
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Post by D2: Sweet & Sour Edition on Jan 11, 2010 15:41:51 GMT -5
I could honestly care less. Henry Ford was a monster. He was an anti-semite and Nazi sympathizer who was awarded the Grand Cross (the highest honor the Nazi's ever gave out) . Does that mean I won't buy/ride in a Ford or use any product made on an assembly line? Of course not. He's dead - he doesn't gain anything from it. Chris Benoit was a monster as well. But he doesn't profit or gain anything from me watching a wrestling match. That's...one of the best comparisons I've heard in a while. Kudos to you.
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Post by AndyUK on Jan 11, 2010 16:07:45 GMT -5
Can I still watch his matches? Yes, I don't have a problem with that. It hasn't affected me so much that I can't even look at the man anymore. Can I watch them without thinking about what he did? Never, it is always in the back of my mind.
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Jan 11, 2010 16:14:47 GMT -5
Personally, I'm of the opinion that what he did doesn't change history. That's pretty much the only reason I support keeping Benoit in DVD's and such, wherever he may be. Let those of us who can separate the man from his work enjoy Benoit on that level. And you can still do so, if you own any of the older videos. Or you can simply watch youtube/dailymotion, etc. I agree ... same situation. But as anyone who's read my previous posts on the topic would know, I've said the same thing should happen to them as well. OJ should be stripped of his HOF status along with any other awards he's earned over his career. That being said, OJ killed his wife long after his NFL career was over. Benoit killed his family while still employed in the WWE. OJ's crime did not have anywhere near the direct impact on the NFL or pro football in general that the Benoit murders had on the WWE and pro wrestling as a whole.
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Post by Sharpy Snow on Jan 11, 2010 16:48:53 GMT -5
My view on it is, in a way I've kinda become numb to it in a way. (There's too much "evil" in the world these days but that's for another thread.)
These days I can like watch him in matches. I can see pictures of him (Admitadly most of them are bad jokes these dead). I don't really forgive him, no, I mean what he did was unexcusable. But that doesn't mean he used to be good.
Strangely the only thing that still kinda bothers me is when his song pops up on my iTunes so usually skip it. Which sucks as it's a great song.
I remember seeing a sig with a quote from The Dark Knight with a picture of Eddie and Chris. The quote of course being "You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain." It was kinda unnearving how well it fit.
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Johnny Flamingo
Hank Scorpio
Killing the business one post at a time
Posts: 6,737
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Jan 11, 2010 17:34:06 GMT -5
Can I watch a match? Yes. The man was one of the all time greats, no question about it.
However I do feel sadness when thinking about how it all ended for him. Sad because someone, somewhere lost a son, daughter, and a grandson.
Sad because there were many close to him, like Jericho, that really admired the man, and must now live with the fact that someone they trusted and respected di such a vicious act.
Sad because we will NEVER have closure to this because, barring and act of God, we will never know why those events took place.
As time passes, our feelings will fade, some for good, some in negative. But, no matter what happens as time passes, nothing will ever be the same.
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Post by Young Game on Jan 11, 2010 18:30:09 GMT -5
The earlier the match or storyline the easier it is to watch, since it's easy to disassociate that Benoit with the Benoit he became. I have no problem watching his WCW stuff, but anything after WrestleMania XX gets a little too dodgy, since who knows what's rattling around in his head at that point. I am of this train of thought. I can still watch his Japanese matches.
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Post by thesunbeast on Jan 11, 2010 18:52:14 GMT -5
I just watched his WM20 victory yesterday. I'll never forget the horrific crime. It's weird knowing that you're watching a murderer.
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Post by Error on Jan 11, 2010 19:30:36 GMT -5
Honestly. Screw Benoit. All of the praise for being a great wrestler gets thrown out the window when you do what he did. That's all I have to say. Firstly, I agree with this. Secondly, it's my opinion. If people can separate what he did personally from what he did professionally, more power to them. Enjoy his stuff. I cannot do that. I see him and I get angry that a man can do what he did. It is one thing to kill yourself, it's another to kill two innocents. Finally, I have no problem with WWE leaving him off of collections like the Triple H DVD or (insert wrestler here) DVD. That is not erasing him from history. Releasing PPVs or PPV collections without his stuff on there would be but, I do not think they are doing that. If they leave him off of a DVD fine, if they leave him on one fine (I can always skip it). This is a situation where no matter what WWE does they will take crap and, in this instance leaving him off gives them less.
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Jan 11, 2010 19:37:35 GMT -5
For the guy who made the car analogy. Well the difference is, yes the guy himself is dead, but it's not about him. You buy a car, it's for you. You love you car, you support the people who made it, and help out the economy and show support for your country.
But you watch a Benoit Match, it's actually Benoit. To watch it, you have to get yourself emotionally invested in it. You actually have to care one way or another about the performer, and listen to the roar of hte crowd as they rally behind him. That's what makes it hard to watch his matches.
Yeah, if Movie Director or a singer did something horrible, the song can be redone, or the movie can be appreciate due to the actors and everyone else involved. But in wrestling, ultimately it's all about the performer.
Wrestling's weird, in that unlike a tv show or movie, you have to suspend belief and let yourself get emotionally invested in this person in a way you can't ignore them like you would in a Movie. OJ in Naked Gun is just Nordberg (he's not even the central character, the love interest or hte villain). But on Raw, that ten minutes or so a week you see that person, it's all about them. Benoit on Tv is what people associated with Benoit the actual human being for years. You follow that character from show to show, and from country to country. YOu look him up on Wikipedia, buy a dvd about him. Even if he goes to another company and changes his gimmick, he's still the same person to you, just under a different name. To become a fan of a wrestler, you have to let them sort of let them into your life, and most of his feel betrayed. And people are betrayed, they have a hard time remembering the good times, and sometimes don't want to be reminded of them.
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Johnny Danger (Godz)
Wade Wilson
loves him some cavity searches
Lord Xeen's going to kill you.
Posts: 27,736
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Post by Johnny Danger (Godz) on Jan 11, 2010 19:42:06 GMT -5
I don't intend this as a personal attack, so please do not take it as such...however, I simply do not understand how anyone can say they "don't judge him" for what he did.
I can understand when people "don't judge" their favorite wrestlers for failing a wellness test, for using drugs, for having anger issues, for being a douche backstage, or any ALLEGED misbehaviors they may engage in off-screen.
Chris Benoit brutally murdered an innocent woman and child. A child he helped CREATE, and a woman he swore to love and protect the rest of his life when he married her. Judging people who do things like this is what separates mankind from the rest of the animal kingdom.
I actually became a big Benoit fan when I met him in person and had a conversation with him and he seemed like a really cool guy. For whatever reason, that "cool guy" either turned into a monster, or was one all along and was damn good at hiding it.
Either way, I will never watch a match of his again. Not to "spite" him, or to prove anything, but because I do not want to. It'd be like, suppose Jeffery Dahmer was really good at golf....would you want to, outside of some morbid curiosity, watch or support his golf career?
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Jan 11, 2010 19:46:41 GMT -5
you know, for some reason, I think a whole bunch of people's arguments would be different if Benoit was Still alive and in jail somewhere. Also I think some people who "don't care" or "can seperate" would feel different if it was something like he molested Daniel or Raped dozens of innocent women, and was proven and convicted of it (probably if it was just one or two like Tyson they'd have forgiven him though).
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