hargh
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,841
|
Post by hargh on Nov 19, 2009 17:26:42 GMT -5
"BS" seems to suit him pretty well.
|
|
|
Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Nov 19, 2009 17:29:40 GMT -5
It is amazing how he said what he said about Austin even though Austin never dropped the F bomb like he claimed. To say he, Hogan, and The Rock never drew is crazy. How can you say that when TV ratings showed a huge number of people watching. Every arena they went too sold out.
Yeah times are different and they don't go to the same arenas every month. But Bruno fail to realize that when he was there MEing it was a more northwest only company. When Hogan was there Main Event it was taking off as a world wide company. The WWE couldn't today be at the same arenas every month because there to much of a depend of fans wanting to see them all over the country and world.
|
|
|
Post by James McCloud IS John Godot on Nov 19, 2009 18:05:54 GMT -5
A mixed bag for me.
I believe a lot of what he says about Vince McMahon, short changing the old wrestlers and refusing to ever compromise, I do.
I'll even meet him half way and say that it is entirely possible that if Hogan, Rock or Austin headlined MSG for event after event after event they would not consistently draw like Bruno did. Of course, it doesn't matter since they never had to, but I'm willing to say it's a possibility.
I disagree strongly with his implication that wrestling should be damaging to the body. I find his defense of some of wrestlings barbaric violence (comparing it to ice hockey) laughable.
Bruno's contributions must be taken in context. He happened to be a huge regional draw for a large Italian-American population for a northeast regional promotion that just happened to become WWE. If WCCW or JCP or the AWA had become the top dog instead of the WWF, Sammartino would be nowhere near as highly regarded and as someone who has seen Sammartino matches, he was an atrocious wrestler anyway.
|
|
biafra
El Dandy
Biafra Who?
Posts: 7,617
|
Post by biafra on Nov 19, 2009 19:38:52 GMT -5
He sounds like my old uncle when he gets pissed off and worked up.
Not really a flattering comparison.
|
|
Johnny Danger (Godz)
Wade Wilson
loves him some cavity searches
Lord Xeen's going to kill you.
Posts: 27,736
|
Post by Johnny Danger (Godz) on Nov 19, 2009 19:52:45 GMT -5
Bitter old fool, probably just upset that nobody remembers him like they do Hogan, Funk, Dusty and Flair....
|
|
|
Post by casualobserver on Nov 19, 2009 20:15:08 GMT -5
Dear Wrestlecrap Board,
Bruno Sammartino is so delusional and out of touch with reality.
Signed,
WARRIOR Warrior
|
|
Blindkarevik
Grimlock
Rock... Paper... Straight-edge!
I Like To <blank>
Posts: 14,343
|
Post by Blindkarevik on Nov 19, 2009 20:58:06 GMT -5
Honestly, we can like or dislike what Bruno says all we want. But bottom line, it's typical "Things were better in my day" rhetoric. I can't fault him for that.
However, the "I'm better than Hogan, Rock, Austin, etc,...." stuff is just purely him wanting to hang on to his spot in history by deriding those who actually had more success than him. Not saying Bruno isn't allowed to feel bitter and angry, and not saying he isn't deserving of his place and in his day, he was a definite asset to the business and a large part of its growth and sustained popularity can be attributed to him. However, as times change, so does business. Hell, I'd love every RAW to be like an ROH show with nothing but as many high-class matches as possible... but, that's not realistic, so you watch RAW as it's meant to be seen within the context of the company and what formulas have proven successful at this point in time.
|
|
efarns
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,273
|
Post by efarns on Nov 19, 2009 21:11:25 GMT -5
My dad has told me more than once that Bruno's matches were repetitive, and other wrestlers from his era have said Bruno was not a draw outside of the Northeast. He sounds very jealous to me. People have so many more entertainment options now than they had back when Bruno was wrestling, and the audience is a lot more savvy and demanding than the fans he wrestled in front of.
If Vince Jr. was trying to run the other promoters out of business, how did he get other promoters to cooperate with him in blackballing Sammartino from the business?
|
|
El Dandy
Don Corleone
Who are you to doubt El Dandy?
Posts: 1,901
|
Post by El Dandy on Nov 19, 2009 21:31:34 GMT -5
Why are so many of the old timers so opposed to the wrestlers of today? I'm going to attribute it to jealousy, as they never made the money guys like Hogan or The Rock or Austin make in a single year. Perhaps they don't get that people don't want to see a 40 minute match of headlocks, armbars and rest holds.
|
|
Dean-o
Grimlock
Haha we're having fun Maggle!
Posts: 13,865
|
Post by Dean-o on Nov 19, 2009 21:59:52 GMT -5
Why are so many of the old timers so opposed to the wrestlers of today? I'm going to attribute it to jealousy, as they never made the money guys like Hogan or The Rock or Austin make in a single year. Perhaps they don't get that people don't want to see a 40 minute match of headlocks, armbars and rest holds. Probably because it's more of an entertainment show then straight up wrestling show. Kayfabe is dead, and today's audience mostly would trash a 40 minute match full of rest holds.
|
|
|
Post by Threadkiller [Classic] on Nov 19, 2009 22:00:02 GMT -5
My dad has told me more than once that Bruno's matches were repetitive, and other wrestlers from his era have said Bruno was not a draw outside of the Northeast. He sounds very jealous to me. People have so many more entertainment options now than they had back when Bruno was wrestling, and the audience is a lot more savvy and demanding than the fans he wrestled in front of. If Vince Jr. was trying to run the other promoters out of business, how did he get other promoters to cooperate with him in blackballing Sammartino from the business? Didn't he say it was Vince Sr. who was trying to blackball him from the business? If that's the case, it makes sense as Vince Sr. was vehemently opposed to going national. He wanted to keep the territories system alive. So it would make sense that other promoters would agree with him on blackballing Bruno (hell, he probably wouldn't have drawn for them anyway). It was when Vince Jr. took over afterwards that all bets were off.
|
|
|
Post by 747 on Nov 19, 2009 22:08:00 GMT -5
Bruno's accomplishments are to be heralded, but the man still didn't realize what exactly happened between 1984 and 1985. Once, Hogan went through the curtain on January 23, 1984, everything he knew and everything Vince Sr. knew went out the window right there.
The Rock and Steve Austin weren't good draws? Okay, Bruno, if they were not good draws the WWF might very well not exist today, although WCW might have imploded anyways.
Hulk Hogan, despite the flak he gets here, helped draw those big crowds to Detroit, Toronto and helped bring wrestling to a level that was never seen before. He also had appeal in Japan, which even Bret will admit in his book.
|
|
|
Post by tehoh1 on Nov 19, 2009 22:15:11 GMT -5
Oh Bruno. You cheeky bastard.
|
|
MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 14,007
|
Post by MolotovMocktail on Nov 19, 2009 22:49:51 GMT -5
What got me was Bruno passing judgment on the Attitude Era with his "stupid parents" comment. Yeah, kids that young probably shouldn't have seen a lot of what was on TV, but who is he to tell us that? And he even admitted that wrestling was pretty damn violent in his day. In fact, I've seen old posters for events he appeared at, and it says right on them, no one under 14 admitted. Wrestling may not have had the sexuality or language in his time, but it wasn't exactly PG back then either.
Also, with everyone saying how bad Bruno was in the ring (Flair said the same thing in his book), workrate is not necessarily required to be a big draw. But with Bruno bashing Hogan's abilities, this makes him out to be a huge hypocrite.
That being said, it is sad that he's this vehement that his accolades are too good for modern wrestling to recognize. Whether you agree with him or not, he was the first mega-face the WWE ever had, and he's not going to allow them to recognize him for it.
|
|
The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,379
|
Post by The Ichi on Nov 19, 2009 23:16:33 GMT -5
And people say Bret Hart is bitter...
|
|
ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
|
Post by ICBM on Nov 19, 2009 23:43:44 GMT -5
While by comparison I should have squat to say to Bruno about wrestling, this is still the internet and I am still a member of the pro wrestling audience so:
IMO merchendise is as good a measuring stick for drawing as gate recipts. So are TV ratings and PPV buys. In that case I submit to the board that Kevin Nash drew as much money if not more than Bruno. Bruno just had gates. Keving sold Diesel t-shirts, foam fingers, NWO merch, Wolfpack merch, PPV's he headlined to the tune of millions of dollars, ratings records that drew HUGE ad sales, oh and how bout selling out house shows for 4 1/2 years in two different MAJOR promotions.
That's just Nash, not HBK, Hart, Hogan, Flair, Rhodes, Rock Austin ect.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Nov 19, 2009 23:46:57 GMT -5
Very interesting in many regards.
Bruno's inability to adapt to what it the reality of the business in the post-territory age is glaring, but I find the discussion of selling out arenas and being a long-term draw to be absolutely fascinating.
It really shines a light on where the business really changes and diverges, how the idea went from "showcase your biggest stars whenever you can", to "protect your biggest stars or you'll overexpose them". Part of that was increased media attention and hours of TV a week, but a part of it also involves what Bruno said, the ability to wrestle an adaptable style that can bring an audience back for more, even if they've seen you a dozen times in recent memory.
Again, I find that aspect of the discussion pretty fascinating.
|
|
|
Post by manstis1804 on Nov 20, 2009 0:02:05 GMT -5
I knew pretty much nothing about Bruno before this interview, other than he was a big time WWWF champ and is now on the outs with Vince.
Judging solely from that interview, he's a bitter old man, perhaps rightfully so, but his bitterness really colors his views in a negative way. So much bullshit rationalization and exaggeration, this proliferation of condensation, he comes across to me as a practitioner of ratfinkism.
|
|
|
Post by manstis1804 on Nov 20, 2009 0:06:54 GMT -5
While by comparison I should have squat to say to Bruno about wrestling, this is still the internet and I am still a member of the pro wrestling audience so: IMO merchendise is as good a measuring stick for drawing as gate recipts. So are TV ratings and PPV buys. In that case I submit to the board that Kevin Nash drew as much money if not more than Bruno. Bruno just had gates. Keving sold Diesel t-shirts, foam fingers, NWO merch, Wolfpack merch, PPV's he headlined to the tune of millions of dollars, ratings records that drew HUGE ad sales, oh and how bout selling out house shows for 4 1/2 years in two different MAJOR promotions. That's just Nash, not HBK, Hart, Hogan, Flair, Rhodes, Rock Austin ect. Exactly. Money is money. In Bruno's day all they had was arenas.
|
|
|
Post by Red Impact on Nov 20, 2009 0:19:13 GMT -5
While by comparison I should have squat to say to Bruno about wrestling, this is still the internet and I am still a member of the pro wrestling audience so: IMO merchendise is as good a measuring stick for drawing as gate recipts. So are TV ratings and PPV buys. In that case I submit to the board that Kevin Nash drew as much money if not more than Bruno. Bruno just had gates. Keving sold Diesel t-shirts, foam fingers, NWO merch, Wolfpack merch, PPV's he headlined to the tune of millions of dollars, ratings records that drew HUGE ad sales, oh and how bout selling out house shows for 4 1/2 years in two different MAJOR promotions. That's just Nash, not HBK, Hart, Hogan, Flair, Rhodes, Rock Austin ect. I think merch is a better barometer of popularity, actually. To say someone is a draw on their own is to ignore everyone else that is on the card. Most people don't pay to see one match, they pay to see several. But merch, you're generally buying the merch of one guy. That's different entirely.
|
|