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Post by Threadkiller [Classic] on Nov 19, 2009 14:46:35 GMT -5
Full interview here: www.newsday.com/sports/the-steel-cage-1.811995
But here are some choice snippets ("BS" denotes Bruno Sammartino, obviously, while "AC" denotes the interviewer, Alfonso Castillo)
On why he refuses to accept a HOF induction:
BS: Can I tell you something? His (Vince McMahon Jr.’s) father had me blackballed all over the country. I had to go back to Pittsburgh and be a ditch digger because I had a wife and a kid. And you know why? Because I wouldn’t give in to them and their demands. Finally – six or seven months later – I wound up in Canada. That’s where I got my break – all through Canada, where I spent almost two years. And then they were kissing my behind when they heard about my success in Canada to come back to New York. And when I did come back to New York, I came on my own terms. So, nobody was more broke than I was at that time. I didn’t have two nickels to rub together, but I still wouldn’t give in to them, because I knew I was right and I knew they were wrong.
AC: Do you feel kind of the same now?
BS: Absolutely. I would feel like a prostitute if I gave in to McMahon.
AC: Well, again, this is maybe where I differ with you – the whole issue of ‘giving in’ to McMahon. I understand what you’re getting at, but I don’t know that it would be a matter of associating yourself with Vince McMahon. You couldn’t foresee a way where you could do both – where you could show up to the Hall of Fame…?
BS: I told McMahon this: "You want me in there? You really do, huh? Show me the respect you showed the non-wrestling people." The Mike Tysons, the Pete Rose, and these other ball players that he used and show biz people. Show me the kind of respect you showed those people and I’ll consider it.
**************
On being low-balled by McMahon:
AC: Well, can I ask you, did he ever offer you a figure? Was there ever a figure floated for doing business with him?
BS: For the Hall of Fame he offered $5,000.
AC: Really?
BS: Yeah. That’s pretty awful.
AC: Wow. That is on the low end. Well, did they ever discuss anything with you – like a DVD or anything like that?
BS: Well, what I think he told my attorney was… Because I don’t trust him for nothing, I said, "If you want to do a DVD, if you want to do whatever, fine. Let’s work out a deal that is satisfactory financially, and then go out and sell it to make all they money in the world. If you make tens times more than me, fine." But, because I don’t trust them, "Give me the money up front and then you take the chance worldwide about selling that DVD." Because, let me tell you something about what he did. He sold some of my merchandise, which he had to pay me for. He has copyrights, but he can’t just use you. What we figured out, and I told him this when I saw him, he gave me less than one-tenth of one percent of the sales.
AC: Is that right?
BS: Yeah. And you know why I couldn’t do anything about it, the lawyers told me? Because when he gave me the first check when I was still there doing some commentary, I cashed it. Once I cashed it, it was like a contract. I agreed to that. To this day, when they sell stuff and I look at the breakdown, I don’t even get one-tenth of one percent of what they sell of me.
****************
On Hogan's Status as a "Draw":
BS: You just don’t know McMahon. He has to win. And if he gives in by giving you what you’re asking for, then he will have lost in his own warped mind. That’s how the guy works. And let me tell you about my achievements. You mentioned Hulk Hogan. There is the biggest myth in the history of professional wrestling. This guy could never sell out arenas. Vince McMahon found out early when he tried to put him in back-to-back shows that the gates always drop from the first show to the second show by about 30 percent, or whatever. He’s the luckiest guy that ever came in here, because if you look at his record of the arenas he’s appeared in, he gets credits for stuff he had nothing to do with. Do you know that he even took credit for selling out Shea Stadium when I wrestled Zbyszko?
AC: Right, and he wrestled Andre.
BS: And he was a nobody then.
AC: But you can’t say that Hulk Hogan was not a draw.
BS: No, he was not a draw.
AC: Oh, stop.
BS: Wait a minute. He was a draw for an appearance. Absolutely he was a draw. But he was not a guy that you could bring back show after show to the same arena.
AC: I mean, the business has changed so much that drawing, I think as you said, means something different than when you were wrestling. Arenas are only a small part of the business now. I don’t think there’s ever been a bigger arena draw than you. What was your record of Garden sell-outs?
BS: I headlined Madison Square Garden 211 times. When they did the "greatest sports legends," I was the only one they would do, because they did a little investigating. I don’t know how many times I sold out Boston or all the other arenas because they don’t keep those records. These people checked it out and they came back with the report that I headlined the Garden 211 times and had 187 sell-outs. And even in McMahon’s magazine they did a big story – without my permission, but I don’t care about that. That’s their right to do – and they even quoted all these numbers. I remember when the father said, "Hey, we have to take advantage of this, because it’s a tremendous feat." In Boston, for example, I wrestled about 200 time. Do you know that Hulk Hogan never headlined Madison Square Garden more than 20 times in his whole career?
AC: Well, he wasn’t that full time, right? They’d have the B-shows and they’d have someone else headlining, and Hogan was sort of the special attraction.
BS: No, no, no. They tried him. I told McMahon it wasn’t going to work, and I laughed at him. I said, "This guy is so limited. He will draw you a crowd when he goes places he hasn’t been. But if you put him in the Garden this month, and then next month, and the next month, and the next month… both he and the Garden will both die, because he is so limited as far as wrestling skills and talent that there’s no way he can carry any club." He can’t. Look, he was the top guy with Time Warner (WCW), and that was the year that they lost $95 million.
****************
On The Rock, Steve Austin, and the Attitude Era:
AC: Is there anybody from the modern era that you would consider a draw to the point that you were a draw, like a Steve Austin?
BS: No, because I look at the arenas, not what they claim they did in merchandise.
AC: Well, even the arenas. I think Steve Austin sold out tons of arenas during his run.
BS: No, they may have sold out one time around, but they never could come back and sell out. The big draws were (Antonino) Rocca – if you remember that name – before me. He was a draw. Verne Gagne throughout Minnesota always drew very, very well. You had guys like Ray Stevens out of California. Kowalski was a draw. Dick the Bruiser was a draw. These were guys that continually came to the same arenas and did big business. That’s a draw. Not somebody that you publicize like crazy and you bring him in for one show and it sells out. But then when you bring him back for the next show, it drops 30 or 40 percent, and then you pull him out of there altogether and go to a different joint because you can’t keep going with this one. And Steve Austin was like that. So was the Rock. None of them were consistent enough that McMahon could maintain the arena. That’s why they’re not at the arenas.
AC: Again, I think part of the issue is how much the business model changed. But would you dispute that Steve Austin and the Rock in their time, and Hulk Hogan in his time, were the anchors and the centerpieces of two of WWE’s biggest boon periods in its history?
BS: I call that the drug era, because that’s when all the freaks came in with the drugs and the vulgarity. Here’s – what’s his name – Austin. Here he was in the ring. My kid calls me up. He says, "Hey dad, put on the TV." This was years ago. He was the world champion. He’s got a can of beer. He’s standing in the ring. And on television they’re bleeping out every other word because he’s using the foulest of language. And they show the camera, and I see in the audience – I call them stupid parents with their six and seven and eight year old children witnessing this. The Vince McMahon "kiss my butt club." I’m sure you’ve heard of this. And they’re stupid parents were exposing their children to this. Boy, is that sending wonderful messages. Because when you have young kids and you take them to these places and they do this kind of behavior, obviously these kids must think it mustn’t be bad. It must be acceptable behavior, right? Well, this is what McMahon turned wrestling into. And excuse me if I don’t want any part of that or would have anything to do with that. And you can credit Steve Austin or the Rock or whoever else you want to credit, but they were all part of that garbage. Every one of them. And the drugs. Look at all the wrestlers that have died from drugs.
AC: No, I understand where you’re coming from. Would you say that your era of wrestling was more family-friendly?
BS: Mine? Absolutely. You never heard anything about…
AC: Well, not about drugs, but I remember lots of violence. I remember a lot of blood. I remember Lou Albano shoving a spike in somebody’s head.
BS: But don’t you see violence when you see football? Don’t you see violence when you see hockey?
AC: Well, you can make the same argument about the kind of stuff Steve Austin was doing. Beer drinking and that kind of thing. That’s all part of popular culture.
BS: Do you they have to use the F-word and everything else and guzzle beer on television for everyone to see? That’s the same thing? Tell me what other athletes you see doing interviews and using the words "F this" and "mother-F this" and all that kind of stuff.
AC: Well, part of the issue is that it’s not pure sports, right? It’s hard to compare WWE with the NFL or something like that.
BS: Well, I thought of myself in my era as much tougher than the sports that you mentioned. I’ll tell you why. We used boxing rings in my era, and those things were like concrete, my friend. And there was no padding in our bodies. And people can say we knew how to land, but when you’re getting bodyslammed or you’re taking back body drops and you come down seven feet, that’s not knowing how to land. You have to come down and land on that thing. There were no mats outside the ring. There were just concrete floors when you flew over the top rope. That’s why if you see some of the old timers today, you see them in wheel chairs, you see them in crutches, you see them in those walkers, whatever you call them, canes, because eof the abuse. You see, when we got hurt, it wasn’t like football or baseball when you go on the rehab. The promoters didn’t do that. They treated you like a dog. If you didn’t wrestle, you didn’t get paid. "You’re hurt? Your tough luck."
AC: But, that’s not good, right? (laughs)
BS: No, it’s not good.
AC: I mean, that’s bad. That the sport has evolved a little from that, I’d imagine is a good thing. Do you wish that there weren’t mats outside of the ring? At the end of the day, what professional wrestling is is simulated violence. In an ideal world, you shouldn’t be getting hurt.
BS: Well, let me tell you something. If you see me, you’ll see pretty nasty cauliflower ears. And I will show you a lot of guys from my era that have cauliflower ears and other things. Show me one of these guys today that have cauliflowered ears or anything like that.
AC: Well, why should they?
BS: They’re not wrestlers.
AC: Well, the sport’s changed a lot.
BS: Well, OK, the sport’s changed. And that’s why I don’t belong in it and that’s why I don’t want to have anything to do with it. It’s not my world.
**********************
These aren't even all of the best parts of the interview. It's a damn, damn good read. Go check it out at Castillo's blog.
Thoughts? Is Bruno a jilted veteran that is denied the respect he deserves? Is he a stubborn old-timer who doesn't get today's business? Is he a little from column A and a little from column B? Is he more of one than the other? And why all these questions?
Stay tuned.
But here are some choice snippets ("BS" denotes Bruno Sammartino, obviously, while "AC" denotes the interviewer, Alfonso Castillo)
On why he refuses to accept a HOF induction:
BS: Can I tell you something? His (Vince McMahon Jr.’s) father had me blackballed all over the country. I had to go back to Pittsburgh and be a ditch digger because I had a wife and a kid. And you know why? Because I wouldn’t give in to them and their demands. Finally – six or seven months later – I wound up in Canada. That’s where I got my break – all through Canada, where I spent almost two years. And then they were kissing my behind when they heard about my success in Canada to come back to New York. And when I did come back to New York, I came on my own terms. So, nobody was more broke than I was at that time. I didn’t have two nickels to rub together, but I still wouldn’t give in to them, because I knew I was right and I knew they were wrong.
AC: Do you feel kind of the same now?
BS: Absolutely. I would feel like a prostitute if I gave in to McMahon.
AC: Well, again, this is maybe where I differ with you – the whole issue of ‘giving in’ to McMahon. I understand what you’re getting at, but I don’t know that it would be a matter of associating yourself with Vince McMahon. You couldn’t foresee a way where you could do both – where you could show up to the Hall of Fame…?
BS: I told McMahon this: "You want me in there? You really do, huh? Show me the respect you showed the non-wrestling people." The Mike Tysons, the Pete Rose, and these other ball players that he used and show biz people. Show me the kind of respect you showed those people and I’ll consider it.
**************
On being low-balled by McMahon:
AC: Well, can I ask you, did he ever offer you a figure? Was there ever a figure floated for doing business with him?
BS: For the Hall of Fame he offered $5,000.
AC: Really?
BS: Yeah. That’s pretty awful.
AC: Wow. That is on the low end. Well, did they ever discuss anything with you – like a DVD or anything like that?
BS: Well, what I think he told my attorney was… Because I don’t trust him for nothing, I said, "If you want to do a DVD, if you want to do whatever, fine. Let’s work out a deal that is satisfactory financially, and then go out and sell it to make all they money in the world. If you make tens times more than me, fine." But, because I don’t trust them, "Give me the money up front and then you take the chance worldwide about selling that DVD." Because, let me tell you something about what he did. He sold some of my merchandise, which he had to pay me for. He has copyrights, but he can’t just use you. What we figured out, and I told him this when I saw him, he gave me less than one-tenth of one percent of the sales.
AC: Is that right?
BS: Yeah. And you know why I couldn’t do anything about it, the lawyers told me? Because when he gave me the first check when I was still there doing some commentary, I cashed it. Once I cashed it, it was like a contract. I agreed to that. To this day, when they sell stuff and I look at the breakdown, I don’t even get one-tenth of one percent of what they sell of me.
****************
On Hogan's Status as a "Draw":
BS: You just don’t know McMahon. He has to win. And if he gives in by giving you what you’re asking for, then he will have lost in his own warped mind. That’s how the guy works. And let me tell you about my achievements. You mentioned Hulk Hogan. There is the biggest myth in the history of professional wrestling. This guy could never sell out arenas. Vince McMahon found out early when he tried to put him in back-to-back shows that the gates always drop from the first show to the second show by about 30 percent, or whatever. He’s the luckiest guy that ever came in here, because if you look at his record of the arenas he’s appeared in, he gets credits for stuff he had nothing to do with. Do you know that he even took credit for selling out Shea Stadium when I wrestled Zbyszko?
AC: Right, and he wrestled Andre.
BS: And he was a nobody then.
AC: But you can’t say that Hulk Hogan was not a draw.
BS: No, he was not a draw.
AC: Oh, stop.
BS: Wait a minute. He was a draw for an appearance. Absolutely he was a draw. But he was not a guy that you could bring back show after show to the same arena.
AC: I mean, the business has changed so much that drawing, I think as you said, means something different than when you were wrestling. Arenas are only a small part of the business now. I don’t think there’s ever been a bigger arena draw than you. What was your record of Garden sell-outs?
BS: I headlined Madison Square Garden 211 times. When they did the "greatest sports legends," I was the only one they would do, because they did a little investigating. I don’t know how many times I sold out Boston or all the other arenas because they don’t keep those records. These people checked it out and they came back with the report that I headlined the Garden 211 times and had 187 sell-outs. And even in McMahon’s magazine they did a big story – without my permission, but I don’t care about that. That’s their right to do – and they even quoted all these numbers. I remember when the father said, "Hey, we have to take advantage of this, because it’s a tremendous feat." In Boston, for example, I wrestled about 200 time. Do you know that Hulk Hogan never headlined Madison Square Garden more than 20 times in his whole career?
AC: Well, he wasn’t that full time, right? They’d have the B-shows and they’d have someone else headlining, and Hogan was sort of the special attraction.
BS: No, no, no. They tried him. I told McMahon it wasn’t going to work, and I laughed at him. I said, "This guy is so limited. He will draw you a crowd when he goes places he hasn’t been. But if you put him in the Garden this month, and then next month, and the next month, and the next month… both he and the Garden will both die, because he is so limited as far as wrestling skills and talent that there’s no way he can carry any club." He can’t. Look, he was the top guy with Time Warner (WCW), and that was the year that they lost $95 million.
****************
On The Rock, Steve Austin, and the Attitude Era:
AC: Is there anybody from the modern era that you would consider a draw to the point that you were a draw, like a Steve Austin?
BS: No, because I look at the arenas, not what they claim they did in merchandise.
AC: Well, even the arenas. I think Steve Austin sold out tons of arenas during his run.
BS: No, they may have sold out one time around, but they never could come back and sell out. The big draws were (Antonino) Rocca – if you remember that name – before me. He was a draw. Verne Gagne throughout Minnesota always drew very, very well. You had guys like Ray Stevens out of California. Kowalski was a draw. Dick the Bruiser was a draw. These were guys that continually came to the same arenas and did big business. That’s a draw. Not somebody that you publicize like crazy and you bring him in for one show and it sells out. But then when you bring him back for the next show, it drops 30 or 40 percent, and then you pull him out of there altogether and go to a different joint because you can’t keep going with this one. And Steve Austin was like that. So was the Rock. None of them were consistent enough that McMahon could maintain the arena. That’s why they’re not at the arenas.
AC: Again, I think part of the issue is how much the business model changed. But would you dispute that Steve Austin and the Rock in their time, and Hulk Hogan in his time, were the anchors and the centerpieces of two of WWE’s biggest boon periods in its history?
BS: I call that the drug era, because that’s when all the freaks came in with the drugs and the vulgarity. Here’s – what’s his name – Austin. Here he was in the ring. My kid calls me up. He says, "Hey dad, put on the TV." This was years ago. He was the world champion. He’s got a can of beer. He’s standing in the ring. And on television they’re bleeping out every other word because he’s using the foulest of language. And they show the camera, and I see in the audience – I call them stupid parents with their six and seven and eight year old children witnessing this. The Vince McMahon "kiss my butt club." I’m sure you’ve heard of this. And they’re stupid parents were exposing their children to this. Boy, is that sending wonderful messages. Because when you have young kids and you take them to these places and they do this kind of behavior, obviously these kids must think it mustn’t be bad. It must be acceptable behavior, right? Well, this is what McMahon turned wrestling into. And excuse me if I don’t want any part of that or would have anything to do with that. And you can credit Steve Austin or the Rock or whoever else you want to credit, but they were all part of that garbage. Every one of them. And the drugs. Look at all the wrestlers that have died from drugs.
AC: No, I understand where you’re coming from. Would you say that your era of wrestling was more family-friendly?
BS: Mine? Absolutely. You never heard anything about…
AC: Well, not about drugs, but I remember lots of violence. I remember a lot of blood. I remember Lou Albano shoving a spike in somebody’s head.
BS: But don’t you see violence when you see football? Don’t you see violence when you see hockey?
AC: Well, you can make the same argument about the kind of stuff Steve Austin was doing. Beer drinking and that kind of thing. That’s all part of popular culture.
BS: Do you they have to use the F-word and everything else and guzzle beer on television for everyone to see? That’s the same thing? Tell me what other athletes you see doing interviews and using the words "F this" and "mother-F this" and all that kind of stuff.
AC: Well, part of the issue is that it’s not pure sports, right? It’s hard to compare WWE with the NFL or something like that.
BS: Well, I thought of myself in my era as much tougher than the sports that you mentioned. I’ll tell you why. We used boxing rings in my era, and those things were like concrete, my friend. And there was no padding in our bodies. And people can say we knew how to land, but when you’re getting bodyslammed or you’re taking back body drops and you come down seven feet, that’s not knowing how to land. You have to come down and land on that thing. There were no mats outside the ring. There were just concrete floors when you flew over the top rope. That’s why if you see some of the old timers today, you see them in wheel chairs, you see them in crutches, you see them in those walkers, whatever you call them, canes, because eof the abuse. You see, when we got hurt, it wasn’t like football or baseball when you go on the rehab. The promoters didn’t do that. They treated you like a dog. If you didn’t wrestle, you didn’t get paid. "You’re hurt? Your tough luck."
AC: But, that’s not good, right? (laughs)
BS: No, it’s not good.
AC: I mean, that’s bad. That the sport has evolved a little from that, I’d imagine is a good thing. Do you wish that there weren’t mats outside of the ring? At the end of the day, what professional wrestling is is simulated violence. In an ideal world, you shouldn’t be getting hurt.
BS: Well, let me tell you something. If you see me, you’ll see pretty nasty cauliflower ears. And I will show you a lot of guys from my era that have cauliflower ears and other things. Show me one of these guys today that have cauliflowered ears or anything like that.
AC: Well, why should they?
BS: They’re not wrestlers.
AC: Well, the sport’s changed a lot.
BS: Well, OK, the sport’s changed. And that’s why I don’t belong in it and that’s why I don’t want to have anything to do with it. It’s not my world.
**********************
These aren't even all of the best parts of the interview. It's a damn, damn good read. Go check it out at Castillo's blog.
Thoughts? Is Bruno a jilted veteran that is denied the respect he deserves? Is he a stubborn old-timer who doesn't get today's business? Is he a little from column A and a little from column B? Is he more of one than the other? And why all these questions?
Stay tuned.
helped $lim jinx NXT. Woops
