Soultastic
El Dandy
Only an idiot can be completely happy.
Posts: 8,924
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Post by Soultastic on Jun 13, 2010 0:18:44 GMT -5
Off-topic, but I gotta ask, demonsmoke: What the hell is going on with Darren Young in that pic?
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Schemer
Don Corleone
Total class wit' a capital K!
Posts: 1,950
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Post by Schemer on Jun 13, 2010 0:26:59 GMT -5
The issue I'm taking is that if it WAS over the tie choke, then that'd be BS, because I have no idea who would think it was real. Kayfabe died a long freaking time ago so much that even my younger brothers were smart enough to know it's all just acting. Who keeps kayfabe?! I suppose now every movie with elements of suffocation should be banned too. Have any of you ever seen Charade?... Look what happened to James Coburn's character. Should that movie (which is now public domain, btw) never be shown again cause that scene is so much like the Benoit's?...
Seriously, I didn't even make a connection to it, so why would a casual fan. It doesn't make sense to me for that being the reason.
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Post by oafman on Jun 13, 2010 0:33:48 GMT -5
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Jun 13, 2010 0:33:51 GMT -5
So I'm guessing nothing since 8pm?
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Post by hoganhallnash on Jun 13, 2010 0:35:03 GMT -5
Hi there. Quit blaming me. I'm in New Orleans trying to learn lines for my new crappy WWE movie. Thanks love u.
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Post by Barrock on Jun 13, 2010 0:41:03 GMT -5
Were there actually any developements today?
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Post by draus on Jun 13, 2010 0:45:50 GMT -5
OK, this may get lost in the shuffle, but someone has to explain this. I am going to try to explain this and help some of you guys understand the business side of this decision, because this is obviously not a work, as much as we want it to be.
I am working on an MBA, I have spent my entire academic career in Business, and I know the importance Public Relations plays into all of this. If you build a business plan and a company image around family friendly entertainment as opposed to reprehensible acts and violence, you are much, much more likely to attract the support of larger sponsors. If anyone remembers the PR associated with the Attitude Era (Foley does an excellent job explaining it in his second book), while fans were coming in droves, and merchandise/PPV was through the roof, their PR image wasn't worth shit. They had Parent's TV Councils after them and everything. To sponsor WWE/F at the time was a huge risk. Millions see your product, but in the business world your reputation plummets. Wrestling was always viewed as low brow, low class entertainment, and in the stuffy, fuddy duddy, politically correct business world, sponsoring pro wrestling was basically stooping to their level, in the eyes of those businesses.
Let's now fast forward to this PG era. As an advertiser, one of your major demographics should always be children. Kids see something, they nag their parents, the parents make the purchase, and bam, revenue for the company. Having said this, you could imagine being an advertiser in this current era, where not only has the older demographic been semi-retained, but you also have this entirely new market of kids and families. Anyone who has been going to live shows for sometime now can agree that the landscape of the audience is vastly different than 5-10 years ago. That right there is an advertiser's dream: not only do the kids watch the show, but so do the parents, and hence it's a goldmine of revenue.
Now let's look at last week. For the past few years all has been well in the land of the WWE. They have undergone, from a business standpoint, a highly successful transition into a much larger realm of viewers. They've introduced cartoony characters that are over (Hornswoggle), rebranded once edgy characters into kid friendly cash cows (Cena, DX), and have built up a positive brand image through the guest host concept, showing the world that WWE can transverse into other forms of entertainment.
So now out of nowhere, here you are, a VP of Advertising/PR for a large company sponsoring the WWE, watching Raw, and here comes this brutal assault. There's violence, destruction, and assaults on hapless employees. During this melee you see a man visibly being strangled, and the image of the company being spat on and degraded. What's the first thing that comes to your mind? Well it certainly isn't "man this is awesome" or "this feels like 1999 all over again" or "nWo." The first thing this person is thinking about is their target audience, in this case the kids watching the show. And given the media's negative portrayal towards simulated violence causing kids to mimic these acts in the real world, you are immediately put off. Do you really want to move forward with a company that employs such wreckless people (kayfabe POV)? So what do you do? Well you put in a call to the chairman, and give him an ultimatum: either appropriately address the situation, or me, my advertising, my merchandise, and my millions of dollars are out the door, and we aren't looking back. If you're Vince, what do you do?
You can't always view this product from the viewpoint of a fan. Sure we all become selfish and wish that things played out and we can go back to the glory days, but there is so much more to the product than simply being a fan. There's a much larger corporate side of things that have more pull than imaginable.
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zdavis72
AC Slater
freeeedom!
Posts: 195
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Post by zdavis72 on Jun 13, 2010 0:45:39 GMT -5
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Raul
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,183
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Post by Raul on Jun 13, 2010 0:46:54 GMT -5
Were there actually any developements today? Not really huge ones, but reports that are sounding like his release is forreal.
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Post by flatsdomino on Jun 13, 2010 0:47:10 GMT -5
It could still be a work, but probably isnt If its a work, this would be the biggest and most elaborate work of all time and I would congratulate them for it If its real as discribed, Vince needs to grow some grapefruits and stick to the storyline that was written and not sterilize it because of some stupid stockholder or ploitician of whatever is the cause Because losing an important sponsor who gives them a multi million contract is less important than fire one guy who was involved in an angle that only has one week in the progress Yeah, but honestly, I don't like the road this leads down. If all the power in the business and the control of angles is transferred to sponsors, political campaigns and stockholders, this product is going to wind up in a BAD place - trust me on that. And what's worse, if that transfer of power happens, there's no guarantee it's reversable. That could potentially change the entire nature of the wrestling business itself. Hell, it's already happening. Things are changing, and I don't like it. Think things are sterilized now? What until the product is completely gutted of any feeling or excitement, hopelessly held to the will of those outside parties that have nothing to do with wrestling, or it's fans, whatsoever. The irony of this occuring from events stemming out of a "Viewers Choice" episode of Raw could not be more palatable. No, Daniel Bryan wasn't some huge fan favorite, and there likely won't be Matt Hardy-like calls for his return, but even if there were, the company likely wouldn't cave to them in this day and age. Because it could not be more apparent after this that the era of fans having sway over the product is gone, and has been for at least a decade. This is a new era, and the scary thing is, we may be witnessing the beggining of something much worse than the concept of Triple H's inevitably running the WWE someday that people hate so much. NOW is the time for Vince to be stubborn and stick to his own ideas, to fight for his vision and insist that he's right...and the funny thing is, it seems that for whatever reason, this time, he won't.
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Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
R.I.P. Deadpool
Posts: 43,870
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Post by Krimzon on Jun 13, 2010 0:50:43 GMT -5
Yeah, but honestly, I don't like the road this leads down. If all the power in the business and the control of angles is transferred to sponsors, political campaigns and stockholders, this product is going to wind up in a BAD place - trust me on that. You mean it isn't already?
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Jun 13, 2010 0:50:47 GMT -5
I disagree. Again, if it was a work, they would have let him go on Raw, live, instead of on the website at 11 o'clock at night on a Friday. And, that firing would have happened after Cena kicked his ass in retaliation for last week. They're not doing this to attract an audience, which is the only purpose of a work. This is a happening. Whether it's the MAJOR issue that it appears to be, that's another issue entirely. THe people saying that this is a work are wishful thinkers.
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Post by draus on Jun 13, 2010 0:53:26 GMT -5
Yeah, but honestly, I don't like the road this leads down. If all the power in the business and the control of angles is transferred to sponsors, political campaigns and stockholders, this product is going to wind up in a BAD place - trust me on that. You mean it isn't already? From our/a fan's point of view? Yes. But from a business standpoint they are in a very, very successful place right now.
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Raul
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,183
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Post by Raul on Jun 13, 2010 0:55:14 GMT -5
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Jun 13, 2010 0:58:01 GMT -5
NOW is the time for Vince to be stubborn and stick to his own ideas, to fight for his vision and insist that he's right...and the funny thing is, it seems that for whatever reason, this time, he won't. That's what Paul Heyman probably thought in 1999. Look where it got him.
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Post by draus on Jun 13, 2010 0:58:43 GMT -5
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Post by The Big J-Sizzle on Jun 13, 2010 0:58:58 GMT -5
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Post by flatsdomino on Jun 13, 2010 0:59:05 GMT -5
You mean it isn't already? From our/a fan's point of view? Yes. But from a business standpoint they are in a very, very successful place right now. This is true. But like I said, this is a dangerous road. When people who know nothing about the product have control over the product, they WILL mess things up. We've seen this before. And when they do, fans WILL turn away. Then these outside parties will be confused at the loss of interest, panic, and want something done. Then they'll have MORE control over the product, messing with things FURTHER, and then we are in trouble. What's making them money now is what will also be their undoing - the boom will bust eventually, so to speak. And I don't think it's too long util the bubble bursts with the seeds they're sowing now.
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Post by hoganhallnash on Jun 13, 2010 0:59:34 GMT -5
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BigJerichool222
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
THE BIG DOG!
#NotInMySalad
Posts: 17,424
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Post by BigJerichool222 on Jun 13, 2010 1:00:45 GMT -5
From now until Monday, I'm going to assume it's a work.
After Monday when he doesn't show up, I'll still assume it is a work until otherwise provided with concrete evidence of his departure and not some glorified speculation.
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