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Post by The Deadly Snake on Apr 22, 2010 19:08:08 GMT -5
Honestly, in my book, he's in my top ten.
Right now, it's...
1. Ric Flair
2. Bret Hart
3. Shawn Michaels
4. Kurt Angle
5. Ricky Steamboat
The rest is pretty fluid. Any combination of these men in a big match will probably four to five star classics.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2010 19:10:54 GMT -5
No. God, no.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2010 19:16:45 GMT -5
Greatest of all time? I dunno, but after re-watching WM 14 for the first time in over a decade he has went up a few notches (and he was already pretty damn high lol) just because of his toughness for going through the match vs Austin whilst in an absolute agony most of the time
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Post by Sumbody Gon' Get Dey Kneelift on Apr 22, 2010 19:39:50 GMT -5
No, the greatest of all time is Michael Tarver. I'm not kidding. You are kidding. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2010 20:16:12 GMT -5
For me he's the overall best of the WWE considering the length of the run. During his entire WWF/E run I was entertained by most of his matches. Pretty good considering I watched him for 20 years or so, actually more than that I think.
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Post by Kick Your Face on Apr 22, 2010 20:25:37 GMT -5
This is such a subjective topic. But I'll just say that HBK isn't even in my top ten. My top five goes like this:
1. Jumbo Tsuruta
2. Kenta Kobashi
3. Mitsuharu Misawa
4. Toshiaki Kawada
5. Ric Flair
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Apr 22, 2010 20:29:21 GMT -5
yes, god yes
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Post by noleafclover1980 on Apr 22, 2010 20:46:31 GMT -5
As a performer? Overall, yes. Some guys may have been more charismatic, some may have been better in the ring, but I don't think many, with the exception of maybe Kurt Angle, posseses his combination of talent, charisma, ring psychology and the ability to work a lot of different styles as he did. Honestly, HBK reminds me of Ricky Steamboat in his prime, plus more charisma. It's a shame he hurt his back when he did, because while he may not have been a huge drawn in the mid 90's as the milk and cookies baby face, he damn sure could have with his original DX persona with Rock and Austin. (and he was awesome as a heel vs Austin leading up to WM)
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Post by hbk4ever09 on Apr 22, 2010 21:00:45 GMT -5
I was wonder how good he could have been if he never had the drugs/attitude problems. I'm not sure if some of his DX work would have therefore been hindered, but imagine a guy with that talent in the mid 90s, with a healthy mindset and healthy body?
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Haulk
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Post by Haulk on Apr 22, 2010 21:03:45 GMT -5
In real terms Hogan is the greatest but in my book Shawn Michaels is the greatest. One thing to count in that is longevity and he had a good long run unlike the Rock. Ric Flair used to be the greatest but tainted that IMO.
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Post by Captain Charisma on Apr 22, 2010 21:05:27 GMT -5
Hogan is. Did you not see the Hulkster smack HBK around the ring during Summer(fest) a few years back. Michaels couldn't match that raw power.
To be honest if HBK only did that match and nothing else I would nominate him for the HOF.
Hogan is a selfish (insert own comment here)!!!
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Apr 22, 2010 21:08:21 GMT -5
I was wonder how good he could have been if he never had the drugs/attitude problems. I'm not sure if some of his DX work would have therefore been hindered, but imagine a guy with that talent in the mid 90s, with a healthy mindset and healthy body? Ironically, I've been wondering about this in the opposite way: if HBK hadn't been an asshole who constantly pushed to be given big matches and a high-profile spot on the roster, would he have wound up spending his career as just another reliable upper-midcarder always available to put over whatever musclebound hoss Vince wanted to make into a superstar this month? In some ways, I think Michaels' peformances in the mid/late-'90s benefited from the fact that he was a paranoid, bitter dickhead convinced the rest of roster hated him and was waiting to steal his spot if he ever messed up. |
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Post by thedavefather on Apr 22, 2010 22:46:54 GMT -5
HBK is without a question in my mind the greatest wrestler of all time. There is really no debate for me, HBK has given for my money more great matches then anyone in the business could even dream of. Good luck to any of those younger stars trying to be the next HBK......you have BIG shoe's to fill......stealing the show at 13 WM's! Most of them will not even make it to 13 WM'S!
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NIXON
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Post by NIXON on Apr 22, 2010 23:13:03 GMT -5
Nope. I think he was great, but not the greatest. To me, the greatest are the guys who change the business, who break new ground or influence others. He was talented obviously, but he wasn't influential in any way IMO. He did stuff everyone was doing and did it slightly better. He took a character we have all seen hundreds of times and ran with it. He wasn't a fantastic promo guy, just a solid one. His ring work was top notch, but once again I wouldn't call it the greatest. He's not a guy I think when I say "oh he could have a great match with anyone" All his great matches are against other top level performers. I don't ever recall seeing him really carry someone to a great match. And it's pretty well documented that he was never a big draw,SO yeah, not the greatest IMO.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 22, 2010 23:13:57 GMT -5
He's certainly somewhere in the top ten, top five guys.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Apr 22, 2010 23:18:38 GMT -5
he wasn't influential in any way IMO.  |
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NIXON
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Post by NIXON on Apr 22, 2010 23:22:14 GMT -5
he wasn't influential in any way IMO. Well that just changes everything...? To add to what I said previously, I feel this is an unfair question to ask at this time, as I feel many will have their opinion swayed by the fact that he recently retired and everyone is choked up about it. Let's see in a few years how many people are still saying he's the greatest of all time. I think the number will be significantly lower. |
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Apr 22, 2010 23:27:53 GMT -5
Well that just changes everything...? To clarify, I think the Wrestlemania X ladder match is largely responsible for popularizing the idea of ladder matches as crazy spotfests, and without it, we may never have gotten TLC matches, or Money in the Bank. I'd actually agree with this... though personally, this is nothing I haven't thought about Michaels for years anyway. |
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NIXON
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Post by NIXON on Apr 22, 2010 23:36:55 GMT -5
To clarify, I think the Wrestlemania X ladder match is largely responsible for popularizing the idea of ladder matches as crazy spotfests, and without it, we may never have gotten TLC matches, or Money in the Bank. That could be true. Ladder matches were around for over 20 years before that particular match though. Plenty of them had high spots. Granted they were probably never done as well. One thing I will say is, if the first thing that comes to your mind when I mention his influence is that Shawn Michaels changed the way guys do ladder matches, how influential is he? Kind of a small thing to break ground on. |
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Post by celticjobber on Apr 22, 2010 23:47:48 GMT -5
Maybe one of the best, but not the greatest of all time.
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